Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. Marvel's Agents of SHIELD 5x18 "All Roads Lead" Discussion Thread

[SPO2 Dalisay]

That was an interesting command dynamic between Daisy and Coulson going on. May definitely in the Sergeant Major role.

 

[Mike Murdock]

So if the earth still blows up at the end or if we really get an large scale alien invasion with no Avengers showing up, can we conclude that this show takes place in an alternate universe because there is no way to justify on why the Avengers wouldn't show up if another alien army came knocking on Earth's doorstep.

No.

Not any more than no one else showing up to rescue the President in Iron Man 3 or going to London to confront Malekith in Thor: The Dark World or anyone at all mentioning the consequences of Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 (which chronologically would probably have occurred before the scene was even written, of course, but wouldn't justify an alternate universe).

Earth is big and the Avengers are busy. It doesn't mean they know or deal with everything.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Seems some people are already convinced there's no "tie in". Which I don't understand. It seems pretty clear to me that AoS is leading up to the events of IW. The Confederacy plot established the tie in. It just needs proper closure to seal the tie in.

And last week people where thinking that absolutely there will be a tie-in. They are doing an effective tease and pull back on the issue. The thematic tie is there, from Thor and the gladiator pit to Thanos and the second, or third alien invasion of Earth.

At this moment in history I think there is no way AoS has a direct influence on Avengers 3. Even if the Confederacy is a collection for mutual defense against Thanos. However I still hope they see the opening acts as part of the series/season finale.

 

[Brutikus]

Earth is big and the Avengers are busy. It doesn't mean they know or deal with everything.

SpiderMan - Homecoming is a good case in point.

Tony does say to Peter about "other people" taking care of stuff when Peter is trying to tell Tony about what he's discovered.

 

[nypinta]

The aliens use the teleporting device to come to earth so they don't have to bring their mother ship anywhere close to earth to do an isolated attack on a small group like SHIELD.

Yeah. Not sure where I got the ship idea from. I know there was a shot of one, and I was tired, so I guess I had that in mind with my initial post.

But my point still stands. Small group, isolated attack. No reason the Avengers would even know in order to come to their aid.

Also, I was cranky when I posted originally. Just saying.

 

[eon001]

Am I crazy or could Marvel theoretically dismiss the tv shows as alternate realities? They never explicitly make hard references to the each other, and you can explain the appearance of Nick Fury, Maria Hill, etc as this universes Dopplegangers.

Same thing with the Netflix shows which are even more disconnected.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Am I crazy or could Marvel theoretically dismiss the tv shows as alternate realities? They never explicitly make hard references to the each other, and you can explain the appearance of Nick Fury, Maria Hill, etc as this universes Dopplegangers.

Same thing with the Netflix shows which are even more disconnected.

They could but I doubt they would, even if down the line some movie director wanted to do something with a character used on TV. It would leave the opportunity and temptation for someone else to leave out say an Ant-Man or The Hulk from the all connected whole on a whim.

With the time loop seeming to be the alternate universe type I can speculate that this last season and the whatever proves to be the reason for the destruction of earth can be thrown out easier than anything else.

 

[nypinta]

They could. But they also have no reason to.

Edit: I must have taken too long to reply because there wasn't any other post when I opened this page originally.

 

[Spider-Fan]

I am just wondering who the ultimate threat is going to be. Will we get a full Graviton or is the big bad someone we haven't met?

 

[Heretic]

Watching the episode now...and the fact that May decided to not take a gun to the most important fight in the history of the world is just stupid.

And the fact that Daisy is mad about a Hydra assassin being killed by SHIELD is idiotic.

The whole Hale and the alien army plot jumped the shark a few episodes back.

And this was the final episode before Infinity War?????? It's weird to not try to tie it in some way.

 

[ComicBookNerd]

Watching the episode now...and the fact that May decided to not take a gun to the most important fight in the history of the world is just stupid.

And the fact that Daisy is mad about a Hydra assassin being killed by SHIELD is idiotic.

The whole Hale and the alien army plot jumped the shark a few episodes back.

And this was the final episode before Infinity War?????? It's weird to not try to tie it in some way.

I agree with everything you’re saying except for the part about it being the last episode before Infinity War. Don’t forget that next week’s episode was supposed to be the last episode before Infinity War before they moved the date up.

 

[<(o_o)>]

I am just wondering who the ultimate threat is going to be. Will we get a full Graviton or is the big bad someone we haven't met?

It will be General Hale sicking the Confederacy on SHIELD. The Confederacy will be the last big bads of the show if they don't bring it back for another season.

 

[Heretic]

I agree with everything you’re saying except for the part about it being the last episode before Infinity War. Don’t forget that next week’s episode was supposed to be the last episode before Infinity War before they moved the date up.

OH YEAH! I forgot about that. Technically, next week should end around the start of IW (even if a lot of us will have seen IW the night before)

 

[Mike Murdock]

Am I crazy or could Marvel theoretically dismiss the tv shows as alternate realities? They never explicitly make hard references to the each other, and you can explain the appearance of Nick Fury, Maria Hill, etc as this universes Dopplegangers.

Same thing with the Netflix shows which are even more disconnected.

Just to be clear, your argument is the movies don't make hard references to the TV shows, right? Because the TV shows absolutely have made explicit references to the movies. On top of that, the TV shows have made clear references to each other.

The movies have made non-explicit references to the TV show, such as with the Helicarrier in Age of Ultron. They've just done it in a way that doesn't require seeing the show to understand it. They've also explicitly stated that they're connected and Kevin Feige specifically told people to watch Agents of SHIELD to understand how Nick Fury got the Helicarrier. So the only way they wouldn't be connected is if you don't think what the producers say count.

Let me ask you this? How would they go about making it an alternate universe? One way would be for the producers to say that it's an alternate universe, of course. But I thought the premise is that what they say doesn't count. The only way I could see them making it an alternate universe is to make a specific reference to them being in alternate universes. But, even then, I would assume that they can't just do that on the shows since prior references to the movies being in the same universe don't seem to count, so it would have to be the movies making an explicit reference to the TV shows showing them to be in an alternate universe. Is that your idea or did you have something else in mind?

 

[nypinta]

Watching the episode now...and the fact that May decided to not take a gun to the most important fight in the history of the world is just stupid.

And the fact that Daisy is mad about a Hydra assassin being killed by SHIELD is idiotic.

The whole Hale and the alien army plot jumped the shark a few episodes back.

And this was the final episode before Infinity War?????? It's weird to not try to tie it in some way.

For me, the moment this final storyline went a bit pearshaped was the instant Hale decided Coulson was lying just to disagree with her and reverted everything back to just SHIELD vs. Hydra, again.

I did find Daisy's reaction pretty off, considering what is at stake. It's like they've forgotten they have the whole Earth to save. I think though that she identified with Ruby, saw herself in her. Plus, this being her first official mission as the leader, (and I'm not counting the rescue mission since she didn't see herself as being in charge at the time- just holding the place for Coulson), I think a part of her didn't want it to be a kill mission. Unfortunately, she doesn't have that luxury. And maybe Yo Yo's decision was partly based on the fact that Ruby took her arms. But it seems like Yo Yo, Fitz, and Simmons are the only ones actually trying to stop the Earth-shattering future while the others are just going by rote, following "procedure" and making plans for the continuation of SHIELD as an agency, as if that's the primary goal.

I do have the feeling the show ends with Coulson sacrificing himself in some way and Yo Yo, Fitz, and Simmons have to stop the others from trying to save him. Maybe something open-ended where he infuses himself with the gravitonium and gives himself to the Confederacy in exchange for them not killing everyone else. Hale is outed as Hydra and the others can clear their names. May might retire. If I were Fitz and Simmons, I'd quit. Buy a lemon farm and keep Deeke out of trouble. And Daisy takes over as Director. Whether or not they get a 6th season so we can actually see her in charge is another matter...

 

[just one thing]

For me, the moment this final storyline went a bit pearshaped was the instant Hale decided Coulson was lying just to disagree with her and reverted everything back to just SHIELD vs. Hydra, again.

I did find Daisy's reaction pretty off, considering what is at stake. It's like they've forgotten they have the whole Earth to save. I think though that she identified with Ruby, saw herself in her. Plus, this being her first official mission as the leader, (and I'm not counting the rescue mission since she didn't see herself as being in charge at the time- just holding the place for Coulson), I think a part of her didn't want it to be a kill mission. Unfortunately, she doesn't have that luxury. And maybe Yo Yo's decision was partly based on the fact that Ruby took her arms. But it seems like Yo Yo, Fitz, and Simmons are the only ones actually trying to stop the Earth-shattering future while the others are just going by rote, following "procedure" and making plans for the continuation of SHIELD as an agency, as if that's the primary goal.

I do have the feeling the show ends with Coulson sacrificing himself in some way and Yo Yo, Fitz, and Simmons have to stop the others from trying to save him. Maybe something open-ended where he infuses himself with the gravitonium and gives himself to the Confederacy in exchange for them not killing everyone else. Hale is outed as Hydra and the others can clear their names. May might retire. If I were Fitz and Simmons, I'd quit. Buy a lemon farm and keep Deeke out of trouble. And Daisy takes over as Director. Whether or not they get a 6th season so we can actually see her in charge is another matter...

yeah hale went from attempting to blow them up to wanting to make an alliance to being back at war.

she is formidable but with extreme impulsive behavior.

Whitehall was right to pass on her.


She knows about robin from the fitz episode so in a way talbots mission might have been to verify coulsons story possibly more so than dismiss coulson out of hand. but that was an interesting scene when coulson told her about the future, she objected on the grounds that he was dismissive because of her gender.


Robins prophesy is that coulson is the only one who can put the pieces together.

that could be

1) the drawings and he figures some route out.

2) he sacrifices himself by going into the machine and puts the pieces of earth back together after some event.


We know when robin was dieing she told may how to get back to earth because she mentioned flint. Did she tell may how to break this?

On daisy wanting to flip ruby to shield, recognizing potential, could that a bit of growth from seeing framework ward and hearing his story.

 

[eon001]

Just to be clear, your argument is the movies don't make hard references to the TV shows, right? Because the TV shows absolutely have made explicit references to the movies. On top of that, the TV shows have made clear references to each other.

The movies have made non-explicit references to the TV show, such as with the Helicarrier in Age of Ultron. They've just done it in a way that doesn't require seeing the show to understand it. They've also explicitly stated that they're connected and Kevin Feige specifically told people to watch Agents of SHIELD to understand how Nick Fury got the Helicarrier. So the only way they wouldn't be connected is if you don't think what the producers say count.

Let me ask you this? How would they go about making it an alternate universe? One way would be for the producers to say that it's an alternate universe, of course. But I thought the premise is that what they say doesn't count. The only way I could see them making it an alternate universe is to make a specific reference to them being in alternate universes. But, even then, I would assume that they can't just do that on the shows since prior references to the movies being in the same universe don't seem to count, so it would have to be the movies making an explicit reference to the TV shows showing them to be in an alternate universe. Is that your idea or did you have something else in mind?

To put it simply the Netlfix, ABC, and Movie universe are all separate. Any references are just coincidences.

Some universe's have similar time lines.

I doubt Marvel will ever go for this idea, but there door is open for them to use it as an excuse. Dr Strange already introduced the idea of a multiverse.

 

[Mike Murdock]

Except the producers of both the TV shows and movies have said the opposite. If they were to change it what you're saying, how would they go about doing it?

 

[karmajack]

It would take more effort to establish that they aren't connected at this point.

 

[nypinta]

Well, not really. I mean, if they were to split AoS into its own universe, it shouldn't be too hard to make it some device, and then have Fitz and Simmons explain it all, and go on from there. Maybe on occasion have one of the characters mention how something is different, but other than that just get on with whatever story.

 

[Spider-Fan]

There is no reason to do it, though.

 

[Marvolo]

Can I just say again that Daisy is an idiot. Ruby is imbued with the power to rip the earth apart. She has two psychotic minds fighting for control of her body, and Ruby herself wasnt very stable to begin with. Ruby says she is losing control. ****s shaking and Ruby is having temper tantrums. And Daisy's bright idea is to have a therapy session with that ticking timebomb. ****ing hell. At least YoYo was there to do the smart thing.

 

[Vampfox]

Can I just say again that Daisy is an idiot. Ruby is imbued with the power to rip the earth apart.

Ruby only had 8% of the Gravitonium in her body. 8% is not enough to tear the earth apart.

 

[SPO2 Dalisay]

Ruby only had 8% of the Gravitonium in her body. 8% is not enough to tear the earth apart.

And we know this how?

 

[eon001]

Except the producers of both the TV shows and movies have said the opposite. If they were to change it what you're saying, how would they go about doing it?

It's pretty simple. Like I already said in theory, the Netflix, ABC, MCU are in different universe's.

Different universes can still have parallel events like "the incident". But maybe the incident played out differently in the Netflix universe than they did in the MCU.

Runaways haven't even alluded to even minor MCU things like Stark tech, "The incident", Sakovia accords etc.

The Nick Fury that appeared in the first episode of AoS was the ABC doppleganger of the MCU's Nick.

The "it's all connected philosophy" hasn't really benefited the tv shows the way they've benefited the movies.

Doesn't bother me either way. Just something to think about.