Marvels Biggest mistakes?

[Kevin]

He... licked...? ... wait--- WTF?

 

[DACrowe]

Counting retconn stuff?

Here are the worst things (more than 3) Marvel has done:

-Hired Howard Mackie
-The Clone Saga
-Bringing Gwen Stacy back (they did it, clone or not)
-Spider-Man: The Other
-Sins Past (gotta' blame Joey Q more than JMS on this one though)
-Avengers Disassembled
-The Onslaught thing and heroes lost (they kill FF, Iron Man, Thor, Captain America etc. in a story that would've been like 9/11 to the Marvel Universe and of course make it completely stupid bringing them all back making both stories obviously bad....which brings me to....)
-Heroes Reborn
-Chapter Ones
-Releasing 50 X-Men comic titles in one month and jumbling up all the histories and the characters
-All the futuristic X-Men storylines
-Turning Wolverine into a demigod and becoming obsesssed with everything Wolverine
-Letting Xavier walk
-Turning Xavier into an *******
-Killing Jean....AGAIN
-Not a big fan of the Ultimate Universe
-AND THE ****ING CIVIL WAR. ALL OF THIS IS JOEY Q BEING A DUMB****. FROM TURNING IRON MAN INTO A BAD PARODY OF GEORGE W. BUSH, TO DECIDING TO UNMASK SPIDER-MAN.

Notice how save for a select few, they mostly have happened in the last 3-5 years....Hmmmm.

Oh and hiring Stan Lee....JUST KIDDING. Really. I should start running. Yeah....

 

[Doctor of Doom]

Heh.... I love how people cite Civil War as Marvel's biggest mistakes when it's their most succesful story in a decade. Like it or not, a couple hundred thousand seem to love it...

 

[Kevin]

I love it.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Being successful doesn't necessarily mean it's good writing. Forcing characerization in a certain direction, even though that character has never or should never act in that way, to fit a story is just bad and lazy writing. Like Dread mentioned, Reed has been mis-characterized this whole event, all so he could fit into that little niche that Miller wanted him too during the event.

Lazy writing.

 

[roach]

Heh.... I love how people cite Civil War as Marvel's biggest mistakes when it's their most succesful story in a decade. Like it or not, a couple hundred thousand seem to love it...

proof please

 

[The_Mystery]

Y'know, everyone says the Reed is "mis-characterized", but I think that the FF issue where he talked to Sue before she left him really put him and his thought process into context within the Civil War "event." That issue and the Frontline issue where he had his interview with Ben Urich helped to really clear up how he thinks about the whole state of affairs. To me, Reed is very much in character. He's a big brain that sometimes lets his intellect get in front of seeing the smaller things around him. Hell, even during Waid's great run, Reed did some incredibly weird things, but he had a logical explanation for it. Now, I'm not saying that they haven't had him make some mistakes during the series, but that's what Marvel characters are all about: being fallable and human. I like how they are showing that all the Marvel characters aren't just sheep that follow blindly. Every character has an opinion of the SHRA and every title seems to really build on that. You couldn't do this event in the DCU because most DC super-heroes are sheep and blindly follow behind whatever stance Superman takes...even if he is wrong.

 

[DACrowe]

Civil War is a case of a good idea and a great marketing campaign overcoming mediocrity (kind of like X-Men 3 the movie).

Seriously most fans are reading it because it iis like watching a car wreck and I have several friends who haven't collected in close to a decade because they like the idea. They like the story because they haven't read in many years and I try and explain "Spider-Man unmasking himself is the biggest bull**** ever" and they just shrug saying I'm out of touch with the character. While I try not to be a snobby geek and indeed am a casual collector, I've on/off been collecting Spidey since I was 7, so to me that was at least ironic.

Sorry, I'm just whining now.

Anyway add the Fantastic Four not being the real FF anymore to my list though.

 

[DACrowe]

Civil War is a case of a good idea and a great marketing campaign overcoming mediocrity (kind of like X-Men 3 the movie).

Seriously most fans are reading it because it iis like watching a car wreck and I have several friends who haven't collected in close to a decade because they like the idea. They like the story because they haven't read in many years and I try and explain "Spider-Man unmasking himself is the biggest bull**** ever" and they just shrug saying I'm out of touch with the character. While I try not to be a snobby geek and indeed am a casual collector, I've on/off been collecting Spidey since I was 7, so to me that was at least ironic.

Sorry, I'm just whining now.

Anyway add the Fantastic Four not being the real FF anymore to my list though.

 

[Horrorfan]

Heh.... I love how people cite Civil War as Marvel's biggest mistakes when it's their most succesful story in a decade. Like it or not, a couple hundred thousand seem to love it...

Not to mention the Ultimate line. How can anyone call it a faliure when it basically saved Marvel? Oh that's right, they can't stand the fact that 616 marvel had become stale and convoluted.

And everyone complaining about how nothing ever really changes forgets that it's usually because fan whining and *****ing forces marvel to change back to what happened before. I mean everyone wants thor back, so thor comes back. everyone hated heroes reborn, so they had to come back to 616. How are things supposed to stay changed if people keep calling the changes (HR, M Day and decimation) stupid and demand things to go back to how it was?

 

[BrianWilly]

Yes, just because something is popular and makes a lot of money, it must certainly also mean that it's got quality! Everyone knows that! After all, evidence includes every Michael Bay movie ever, reality TV, and Britney Spears.

And everyone complaining about how nothing ever really changes forgets that it's usually because fan whining and *****ing forces marvel to change back to what happened before.

Yeah, I totally love how Marvel stuck to their guns with Morrison's New X-Men run, "Dead Means Dead" contestants Apocalypse, Aunt May, Psylocke, Colossus, Northstar, Magneto, and probably a couple others I can't remember. Oh yeah, and Peter and MJ's baby; they really kept her around. Every single return to status quo conditions must have been brought on by fanboys who like to whine and certainly not by Marvel themselves! That's totally not a generalization or oversimplification of those situations or anything. Nope.

I mean everyone wants thor back, so thor comes back.

Thor was never gone in the first place, and there were always editorial plans to bring him back as early as 2005, but that didn't fall through. He's one of the most iconic Marvel characters; I highly doubt that it was such heinous torture for Marvel to decide to bring back a series that they cancelled in the first place for no real reason other than to tie in to Disassembled.

everyone hated heroes reborn, so they had to come back to 616. How are things supposed to stay changed if people keep calling the changes (HR, M Day and decimation) stupid and demand things to go back to how it was?

Y'know what would solve this problem pretty neatly? If they didn't make stupid, senseless decisions that no one likes in the first place.

And what the heck about M Day and Decimation "went back to how it was," much less because the fans complained?? Last time I checked, most mutants are still depowered and the Sentinels were still at the mansion. Maybe you just got the wrong impression because 99% of the depowered mutants were D-list background characters that make no impact on any actual stories and that no X-writer actually wants to acknowledge the Sentinels in any major way. Really, it's as if nothing's actually changed.

 

[IronMan_2005]

The New Fantasic Four with Storm and Black Panther.

Joe Quesada sill having a job at Marvel. He doesn't even deserve to be Marvel's janitor.

 

[Spider-Kurt!]

The New Fantasic Four with Storm and Black Panther.
.

You're entitled to your opinion but personally, I don't understand why so many people are so upset about this. People are reacting like it's Jay-Z and Beyonce joining the team when it's actually a former Avenger and king of a technologically advanced country as well as one of the most powerful mutants and former leader of the X-Men. Undoubtably, this is only a temperary change nothing different than Spider-Man's alternate costumes.

BTW, I'm not trying to single you out IM2005.

 

[Darren Daring]

Did they ever, you know, make big mistakes at any point prior to the last ten years?

 

[Horrorfan]

Every single return to status quo conditions must have been brought on by fanboys who like to whine and certainly not by Marvel themselves! That's totally not a generalization or oversimplification of those situations or anything. Nope.

Finally you understand. The more you ***** and complain (which I noticed you do, frequently) the more it makes them think they might as well go back. But then you will still complain about the way they retcon it.

Let's face it, if a hundred thousand people or whatever buy Bendis' stuff and enjoy it, who are you to say it's bad? I don't enjoy it personally, but I don't act like I could do better and be a back seat writer.

Yeah, you fanboys on the whole hate change. I know , I know a lot of you will cry ''only bad change'', but lets face it, that's just lying to yourself at this point. You are the ones who whine untill things are changed and then whine again at how marvel changes it.

And anyone who says Joe Q is ****ing stupid. There's no other way about it. If you dont like him, thats one thing, but saying its a mistake to put a guy in charge who actually makes money???? The guy has made Marvel more sucessful than it has been in years. Oh yeah that's a real big mistake, putting someone in charge who *gasp* is sucessful!

Lets face it, some of you just enjoy *****ing. Its not well thought out critique most of the time. Dredd is pretty much the only one I can think of off the top of my head (though I know there are more of you so I apologise for not remembering you by name) who puts thought and effort into it and isn't just ''OMFG EVERYTHING MARVEL PRETTY MUCH SUXXX'' like say Roach.

 

[Kevin]

one persons mistake is another persons miracle

 

[Kotagg]

The New Fantasic Four with Storm and Black Panther.

Joe Quesada sill having a job at Marvel. He doesn't even deserve to be Marvel's janitor.

I can't even fathom how so many of you at the Hype are so naive and idiotically pontificant. How can you say something like this, when the man has raked in more millions have dollars than Marvel has seen in years (and possibly decades?)

Get your head out of your ass and state something as an opinion if it is one, not undeniable fact.

 

[Horrorfan]

I can't even fathom how so many of you at the Hype are so naive and idiotically pontificant. How can you say something like this, when the man has raked in more millions have dollars than Marvel has seen in years (and possibly decades?)

Get your head out of your ass and state something as an opinion if it is one, not undeniable fact.

Thank you.Some of these people seem to have mistaken '' whats marvel's biggest mistake'' to mean ''so, what's your axe to grind and who do you dislike no matter how sucessful they were?''.It's complete stupidity. I can't believe someone with a brain in their skull would suggest either Joe Q or the Ultimates as a mistake, let alone one of the biggest ones. Let's use common sense now people. Just because YOU don't like something, it doesn't make it a mistake.

 

[supermarvelman]

Being successful doesn't necessarily mean it's good writing. Forcing characerization in a certain direction, even though that character has never or should never act in that way, to fit a story is just bad and lazy writing. Like Dread mentioned, Reed has been mis-characterized this whole event, all so he could fit into that little niche that Miller wanted him too during the event.

Lazy writing.

Your right about success not necessarily meaning it's good, but the thing with Civil War is it's a huge Success and its very very good.

 

[supermarvelman]

Thank you.Some of these people seem to have mistaken '' whats marvel's biggest mistake'' to mean ''so, what's your axe to grind and who do you dislike no matter how sucessful they were?''.It's complete stupidity. I can't believe someone with a brain in their skull would suggest either Joe Q or the Ultimates as a mistake, let alone one of the biggest ones. Let's use common sense now people. Just because YOU don't like something, it doesn't make it a mistake.

Couldn't agree more.

Success doesnt always mean good story but dislike doesn't always mean mistake.

 

[LibrarianThorne]

I read Marvel for Dan Slott, Ed Brubaker and Warren Ellis and that's pretty much it. I read Civil War, butthat's because I'm an unabashed Captain America fan. Marvel is actually the reason I got out of comics in the wake of the really lame Clone Saga, amongst the Onslaught brouhaha which, while not that impressive (especially because of Hereos Reborn), was a hell of a lot more entertaining than Civil War.

I really wish that Brubaker, Kirkman, and Slott had more say in Marvel than they do. Those three can use continuity without screwing it up, and they really get Marvel more than, say, Bendis or Millar. All props to Millar for Ultimates, but he should stay out of 616. It's blatantly obvious that the Captain America in Civil War is not the Captain America in Brubaker's series (or the Heroes Return Mark Waid Captain America series, either), and that disconnect is pretty lame. Spider-Man is also really boring and crappy right now, but I don't know who to blame for that. I love Peter David's stuff, but the Other and the Iron Spidey stuff is just, well, a load of crap, even if it isn't his fault. Spidey sucks so bad that not even one of my favorite writers can bring me back to the character, but ah well. New Avengers is also, well, pretty terrible, but it took the original Avengers a bit to find the breakout story that made the team (Kree/Skrull War, namely), so I'll wait until Bendis stops writing them. Now that I think about it, Dan Slott would make a helluva writer for New Avengers, but I doubt that'll happen.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I can't even fathom how so many of you at the Hype are so naive and idiotically pontificant. How can you say something like this, when the man has raked in more millions have dollars than Marvel has seen in years (and possibly decades?)

Get your head out of your ass and state something as an opinion if it is one, not undeniable fact.

I can't fathom how some people think it's necessary to preface opinions with an "I think" or "in my opinion" when, clearly, if you're saying it and it's very obviously not an undeniable fact, it must be your opinion.

I agree with the rest, though.

 

[Fading]

Not to mention the Ultimate line. How can anyone call it a faliure when it basically saved Marvel? Oh that's right, they can't stand the fact that 616 marvel had become stale and convoluted.

And everyone complaining about how nothing ever really changes forgets that it's usually because fan whining and *****ing forces marvel to change back to what happened before. I mean everyone wants thor back, so thor comes back. everyone hated heroes reborn, so they had to come back to 616. How are things supposed to stay changed if people keep calling the changes (HR, M Day and decimation) stupid and demand things to go back to how it was?

I agree on you that some of this JQ hate is a bit irational, and don't quite get all of it myself.

Thing is tho there is good change, and bad change. Making big storyline changes just to shake things up isn't always a good thing. Like right now the rumor is JQ wants MJ dead, if next issue she slips on a bannana peel and breaks her neck, sure that would be a shocker, but it doesn't mean it wouldn't be a stupid idea and hurt the title. Things like the Other were about changing Spiderman up, but did it in a very un-Spiderman like fasion. Sins past ruined a completely good character for no real reason other than shock value. Neither seems to have had a lasting effect, except for leaving a bad taste in fans mouth.

I also agree tho that websites like this don't always speak for all fans. If JQ listened to everything we say on here there's a chance Marvel would take a financial hit lol. Like if JQ killed off Wolverine like so many on the Hype seem to want to happen, Marvel would lose it's current top selling character. Last month 2 Wolverine titles, and New Avengers (which Wolverine is in) were in the top 10 best selling for both companies. If they killed him off they would lose 2 of their top selling books (and all the cash with it), and lose him from the Astonishing X-Men and NA rosters (which might hurt them as well atleast in cash generated).

We fans typically look at what we want in a book. Marvel executives have to look at what sells because they are a buisness and have to make a profit in order to keep producing comics. If many of us here on the Hype were in charge we'd eliminate ads (killing all the money companies give to put ads in), kill off some popular characters (stopping whatever cash was brought in from their books), and more or less keep everything the same (making some characters stagnant and driving readers away). Most likely the Hype! marvel would be awesome in the eyes of fans like us, but it would go bankrupt most likely.

 

[Fading]

Also wanted to say tho there needs to be a line inbetween change and doing things for shock value. Sure if Spiderman died today that book would sell like hotcakes, in the long run tho it would lose readers most likely after the new Spiderman carried on. A lot of the mistakes mentioned are poorly done ideas, that while different, were overall a negative experience that pushed readers away. Some new readers will probably see Tony and Reed and jerks as CW is the first thing they might be reading. While I do like CW, some things like mischaracterization could permentally ruin a character in some ppl's eyes and make them feel less inclined to buy future comics with that character in it.

 

[Kitsune]

Saying something was good or bad, is by nature a statement of opinion. If you say somethings sucks, it's not a fact unless you are taking about Monica Lewinsky