Marvels Biggest mistakes?

[BrianWilly]

Finally you understand. The more you ***** and complain (which I noticed you do, frequently) the more it makes them think they might as well go back. But then you will still complain about the way they retcon it.

Let's face it, if a hundred thousand people or whatever buy Bendis' stuff and enjoy it, who are you to say it's bad? I don't enjoy it personally, but I don't act like I could do better and be a back seat writer.

Um, I'm allowed to say it's bad because it's my opinion. Let me let you in on a little secret: I don't give a rat's ass who or how many people likes Bendis' work. I'm almost certain most people here feel the same way. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good, as you well know. If I liked things simply because other people told me to like it, I wouldn't like half the things that I do like.

Yeah, you fanboys on the whole hate change. I know , I know a lot of you will cry ''only bad change'', but lets face it, that's just lying to yourself at this point. You are the ones who whine untill things are changed and then whine again at how marvel changes it.

And yet again with the generalization. It's so much easier for you to make your points if you just pigeonhole everyone into your own little negative box, isn't it? It's so much easier to laugh at everyone else if you make them out in your mind as petty, whining fanboys who couldn't possibly have any ground to stand on, isn't it?

You couldn't possibly consider that people who complain about Marvel's changes only dislikes certain portions of Marvel's changes and likes a lot of other things, could you? No, that would ruin your little worldview. For example, the fact that I like the changes made in Astonishing X-Men, Young Avengers, Runaways, X-Factor, She-Hulk, Annihilation, and Dr. Strange couldn't possibly be true for your little template to stand.

I never asked for the Avengers to assemble. I never asked for the mutants to be decimated. Hell, I was more than happy at the drastic changes to the status quo that Grant Morrison made throughout his run on the X-Men which, oh look, Marvel decided to completely do away with. So what guilt could I have for complaining about it? What possible reason is there for me to not do so, other than that you'll get huffy?

You think Quesada gives a poo what we think and say on a message board? His reaction to New X-Men and the Magneto clusterfock that followed was evidence enough that he doesn't. Please, the man prides himself on instigating the fans and then watching the frenzied reactions. The idea that he bases his goals for what happens to Marvel on fan wants is patently ridiculous. Especially considering that one of the two examples you gave, House of M, hasn't been changed back at to anything at all and that the other example you gave, Heroes Reborn, happened before Quesada was in charge.

Good job!

And anyone who says Joe Q is ****ing stupid. There's no other way about it. If you dont like him, thats one thing, but saying its a mistake to put a guy in charge who actually makes money???? The guy has made Marvel more sucessful than it has been in years. Oh yeah that's a real big mistake, putting someone in charge who *gasp* is sucessful!

Again with this delusion you have that success equals quality. What if -- gasp! -- someone actually enjoys quality work more than he or she enjoys successful work! What do you say to that, hmm? How does that make you feel?

And before you say it, since I know you will (gasp! Generalization!), I'm allowed to think that Marvel's quality is sht right now. That's my opinion. I couldn't possibly care less about how successful it is if it's not making stories that I like.

Lets face it, some of you just enjoy *****ing. Its not well thought out critique most of the time. Dredd is pretty much the only one I can think of off the top of my head (though I know there are more of you so I apologise for not remembering you by name) who puts thought and effort into it and isn't just ''OMFG EVERYTHING MARVEL PRETTY MUCH SUXXX'' like say Roach.

And yet, no matter how many times you btch about it, it's still going to happen. Tell me, how does that make you feel?

And good job responding to a total of none of my points, by the way.

 

[deemar325]

Three Words

Demon Hunting Punisher

Yeah that really....sucked.






Hard sucked hard.

 

[Kotagg]

I can't fathom how some people think it's necessary to preface opinions with an "I think" or "in my opinion" when, clearly, if you're saying it and it's very obviously not an undeniable fact, it must be your opinion.

I agree with the rest, though.

Whoa - I didn't say anything of that nature. I was annoyed that the other guy posted that Joe didn't deserve to be EiC of Marvel. That, my friend, was stated as if it were assumption of fact; a fact which is irreconcilable with the fact that Queseda has brought more monetary success to the company than anyone here conceivably could.

 

[Kotagg]

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good, as you well know.

To add, I would disagree here. Popularity is concurrent with monetary gain, and for that reason I'd say it was good.

I think the issue here is I disagree with the overly-romantic notion that comic books are art of some sort. They're business, and base entertainment at that. We're not reading Voltaire here.

 

[deemar325]

It can reach the levels of Voltaire in the right hands.

Plus to me Superheroes is to America what the Myths of the Greek and Romans are to them.

 

[Horrorfan]

Um, I'm allowed to say it's bad because it's my opinion. Let me let you in on a little secret: I don't give a rat's ass who or how many people likes Bendis' work. I'm almost certain most people here feel the same way. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good, as you well know. If I liked things simply because other people told me to like it, I wouldn't like half the things that I do like.

And yet again with the generalization. It's so much easier for you to make your points if you just pigeonhole everyone into your own little negative box, isn't it? It's so much easier to laugh at everyone else if you make them out in your mind as petty, whining fanboys who couldn't possibly have any ground to stand on, isn't it?

You couldn't possibly consider that people who complain about Marvel's changes only dislikes certain portions of Marvel's changes and likes a lot of other things, could you? No, that would ruin your little worldview. For example, the fact that I like the changes made in Astonishing X-Men, Young Avengers, Runaways, X-Factor, She-Hulk, Annihilation, and Dr. Strange couldn't possibly be true for your little template to stand.

I never asked for the Avengers to assemble. I never asked for the mutants to be decimated. Hell, I was more than happy at the drastic changes to the status quo that Grant Morrison made throughout his run on the X-Men which, oh look, Marvel decided to completely do away with. So what guilt could I have for complaining about it? What possible reason is there for me to not do so, other than that you'll get huffy?

You think Quesada gives a poo what we think and say on a message board? His reaction to New X-Men and the Magneto clusterfock that followed was evidence enough that he doesn't. Please, the man prides himself on instigating the fans and then watching the frenzied reactions. The idea that he bases his goals for what happens to Marvel on fan wants is patently ridiculous. Especially considering that one of the two examples you gave, House of M, hasn't been changed back at to anything at all and that the other example you gave, Heroes Reborn, happened before Quesada was in charge.

Good job!

Again with this delusion you have that success equals quality. What if -- gasp! -- someone actually enjoys quality work more than he or she enjoys successful work! What do you say to that, hmm? How does that make you feel?

And before you say it, since I know you will (gasp! Generalization!), I'm allowed to think that Marvel's quality is sht right now. That's my opinion. I couldn't possibly care less about how successful it is if it's not making stories that I like.

And yet, no matter how many times you btch about it, it's still going to happen. Tell me, how does that make you feel?

And good job responding to a total of none of my points, by the way.

Ok most of your posts seem to talk a lot of crap, so I will argue the one point that seemed remotely interesting.

Yes you are allowed to think Bendis' work sucks. Yes you are allowed to think Marvel sucks, and Joe Q sucks. I never said otherwise. However, to say it's a mistake that Marvel Put Joe Q in charge, which then went on to be a huge financial sucess for the company no matter how you feel, is stupid. To say Bendis writing the titles he does, or his events, were mistakes is stupid.

A mistake, in terms of companies like marvel, are ideas that lead to a huge loss of money and industry. Not what stories or people you personally do or don't like.

A mistake would be , for example, the wrestling company wcw paying its top line stars too much for doing too little, and giving them too much power. This helped it's downfall. That was a mistake.

Writing a storyline which you whine about how much you hate but which made lots of money for the company is not a mistake.

As darthsphere mentioned early on, many of you seem to have the wrong idea about what constitute's a company mistake. If the title was worst storylines/ideas ever, fine, but its not, and saying a sucessful buisnessman/title/writer is a misteak because you don't personally like it is erronous and ignorant.

 

[Kevin]

I miss WCW. Sting was the man

 

[Horrorfan]

I miss WCW. Sting was the man

he's in TNA now

 

[Kevin]

can't afford it. it's on cable.

 

[3dman27]

to me Superheroes is to America what the Myths of the Greek and Romans are to them.

this would make a good signature line well done deemar

 

[Purple Man]

To add, I would disagree here. Popularity is concurrent with monetary gain, and for that reason I'd say it was good.

I think the issue here is I disagree with the overly-romantic notion that comic books are art of some sort. They're business, and base entertainment at that. We're not reading Voltaire here.

Though the work is edited slightly, and there are deadlines and page counts, and page sizes that limit what can be told in any given story. Most comics are still a labor of love. There are much more fiscally rewarding, and offer more consistent work than comic books.

If you write comic books, or even aspire to write them one day, you must have some love for these characters. No one writes about a character that doesn't interest them. Maybe they do sometimes, but you can usually smell that from a mile away.

Though this is a Marvel board, I'd like to point out the success of 52. A combination of four writers with vastly different styles that coexist to write a weekly series that runs weekly for a year. Johns, Morrison, Waid, and Rucka each have a strong love for their characters and the world they inhabit. If they wanted cash, they would turn their talents towards Hollywood.

I think any good writer has to have a certain connection with their characters. I don't know if the average reader sees it, but if you try and write any sort of script, you have to invest part of yourself into these characters to make them seem human.

 

[3dman27]

letting stan the man leave

 

[Purple Man]

Letting Jack Kirby leave.

Imagine if he made the Fourth World for Marvel.

Things would be a lot different these days.

 

[supermarvelman]

If Joe Quasada wasnt EIC right now lot of things going on in Marvel wouldn't be going on. I personally wouldn't like that, to me it seems like Marvel gives me what I want week in and week out, it suprsises me sometimes. Joe Q might be a ******** who likes to watch the fans squirm, but I dont give a poop that he doesnt give a poop about what I think, cause in my mind he is delivering good stuff, constantly. I have had no problem with him being EIC of Marvel, I personally think he could do wonders for DC to.

 

[supermarvelman]

Letting Jack Kirby leave.

Imagine if he made the Fourth World for Marvel.

Things would be a lot different these days.

Whats the Fourth World? An alternate universe like the New Universe, 2099, or AoA.

 

[Harlekin]

The New Gods world over at DC.

 

[supermarvelman]

Oh really, it is the New Gods or similar?

 

[Havok83]

Killing off Jean Grey during Morrison's New X-men run

 

[supermarvelman]

I got back into comics right after the Morrison run, do you guys suggest I pick up the trades, people reference it so much, and I still haven't chacked it out. I dont really care for the art though, its not bad at all but its not my cup of tea.

 

[Darthphere]

Letting Jack Kirby leave.

Imagine if he made the Fourth World for Marvel.

Things would be a lot different these days.

You ever heard of Eternals?

 

[Purple Man]

I got back into comics right after the Morrison run, do you guys suggest I pick up the trades, people reference it so much, and I still haven't chacked it out. I dont really care for the art though, its not bad at all but its not my cup of tea.

Definitly. If you got the money pick up the omnibus.

Leave your expectations at the door. It's nothing like what you would expect from an X book, but it's beautiful in its sheer creativity and character depth.

Morrison has a way of turning simple ideas (for example, the idea of the X in Weapon X not being a letter but the roman numeral for the number ten) and turning them into something intelligent and exciting.

A lot of people complain that Morrisons run moved the X-Men too far away from conventional super heroes. But I think that is really the heart of the X-Men. It seemed to me the X-Men were at their best out of costume and bickering with one another rather than fighting some over glorified super villain that would be more suitable for the Avengers.

As a young boy, I was captivated by the X-Men cartoon in the early nineties. My love for Marvels merry mutants didn't mesh well with the comic books that were on the stands at the time, despite being a sales juggernaut, I never really cared for it.

It wasn't until I was about sixteen that I gave comic books another shot. And I hold two books responsible for my sorry geek state that I am now in.

JMS on Amazing Spider-Man and Grant Morrison on New X-Men. I was fortunate enough to start these series only a couple issues into their respective stories and haven't regretted an issue. Though I got wore out on JMS' Spidey, Grant always seems to have the broad strokes of his stories down from day one. It's the self contained epics like New X-Men that make Morrison my hands down favorite writer.

So I will end this rant the same way it began. Pick up the New X-Men omnibus if you got the cash. You won't regret it, and plus you'll have a newfound understanding of Joss Whedons Astonishing X-Men who borrows heavily from Morrisons work.

To me, those two books are my ideal view of the X-Men world.

 

[stillanerd]

To my way of thinking, Marvel's mishandling of Spider-Man over the past several years deserves a category unto itself, simply because it is the result of compounding problems rather than solving them, especially in the 1990s. We got:
--Venom, "lethal protector," which lead to the creation of Carnage, which lead to "Maximum Carnage," which lead to several failed Venom series and making the Scorpion the new Venom.
--The dragging out of the robot parents storyline, which lead to Spidey being a Batman wannabe spouting "Parker is dead, I am the Spider," which lead to the clone saga and negating 20 years worth of Spider-Man comics, which lead to bringing back Norman Osborn (which would eventually lead to [blackout]Sins Past[/blackout]), which lead to the return of Aunt May back from the dead, which lead to leaving the fate of baby May up unresolved, which lead to the reboot and Chapter One, which lead to Mary Jane's supposed death, which lead to her coming back, which lead to Spidey's origin being tied in with totemism, which lead to The Other:Evolve or Die.
--Revealing Ned Leeds as the Hobgoblin, which gave us the Macdendale/Jack O'Lantern as the Hobgoblin, which gave us the Demogoblin, which gave us the cybernetic Hobgoblin.
--Killing off Mysterio, which lead to TWO Mysterio replacements plus the original Mysterio coming back as an undead servant of Hell. This also lead to the Evil That Men Do, which also retconned Black Cat's origins into having her be a rape victim.
--Then there's Spidey joining the New Avengers, which lead him to get his ugly Iron Spidey costume, which lead to him becoming Iron Man's sidekick, which lead to the unmasking, which will probably lead to some other form of reboot.

Of course, X-Men has had their problems as well. The whole thing with Jean Grey not being the real Pheonix for one thing and the confussion that followed with that. Also, after Chris Claremont left, you had everybody else trying to outdo him or recycle his plots, which gave us Onslaught, which gave us Heroes Reborn. Not to mention the Twelve. Then when Claremont came back, we got the Neo. And when Grant Morrison came on board and breathed new life into the franchise (although yes, some ideas worked better than others) after he left, Marvel systematically starting scrapping them (except for Beast's new look and the Scott/Emma affair) which lead to the whole convoluted mess that Xorn wasn't Magento after all, and of course House of M. And there was also Chuck Austen and his making Nightcrawler the son of an actual demon, Havok getting involved with the nurse, Polaris becoming a psycho, Angel and Husk's Lolita-esque romance, etc. And you can bet that Storm's marriage to Black Panther will eventually be a mistake as well.

 

[deemar325]

this would make a good signature line well done deemar

Thanks

You can use it.

 

[Arkady Rossovich]

Killing off Jean Grey during Morrison's New X-men run

That often stands out as the point where the X-Men became utter nonsence.Everything from that point on,is trash.

I sometimes see people who sort of defend Joe Q,by saying that Marvel is prospering.Is this really true?I heard that Marvel was going into bankrupcy in the late 1990`s,but can this..or will this happen again?

I like to side with those who say that Joe Q and Bendis are idiots,they can make money,but they can still be blasted fools.

 

[Brainiac 8]

Letting Milligan ruin Gambit.

Letting Milligan write the X-Men.

Hiring Milligan.