MCU Fight: Hulkbuster Ironman vs Abomination

[jolldan]

Yeah, but in Iron Man 1 it was the freezing up that caused Iron Monger to lose flight, not a loss of oxygen. I believe Tony's Suit can possibly fly him to the 85,000 feet you specify or might even be able to fly him into space, but there is no evidence that the suits he has built would be able to sustain his life during that process. Once again he was in space through a worm hole during the clip I showed only for a very small bit of time and it knocked him out due to a lack of oxygen. If he did not return to our earth's atmosphere quickly he would have died. So, so far Tony's suits seem to require him to have oxygen just as much as the Abomination needs oxygen.

Surfer

Yeah that's what I mean both suits seem to have built in life support up to a certain altitude so they can maintain it for period of time at least. I just meant it you or I was were 30,000+ft up outside of any protection we wouldn't survive for very long you wouldn't need to take someone all the way out to space before the oxygen became to thin to breathe.

 

[iEquinox]

The Time of Useful Consciousness is a function of altitude. At 20,000 feet, an average individual will have 5 to 12 minutes. At 25,000 feet, this time is reduced to 3 to 5 minutes. At 30,000 feet only 1 to 2 minutes are available. By 40,000 feet, the average individual will have only 9 to 15 seconds (basically this represents the oxygen that was in their system before the exposure to 40,000 feet).

So if Iron Man can get up past 30,000 Abomination likely wouldn't have very long conscious.

You misunderstood what Time of Useful Consciousness(TUC) is. TUC is very different from time to total unconsciousness. TUC is defined by the time a pilot can fly a jet at that altitude safely and efficiently without making any errors he usually would not make.

For example TUC at 20,000 feet is 5-12 minutes. Yet people have climbed to the top of the Mount Everest without an oxygen supply. That's >29,000 feet high(TUC is between 2.5 and 3 minutes here), spending time at high altitudes way longer than the TUC, and they did not lose consciousness at all.

But comparing the Abomination's stamina to the "average individual" is ridiculous in the first place. Abomination should have no problem remaining conscious at incredible altitudes, far past normal human limits.

There's a good chance that even 85,000 feet (26km, Iron Man's max) would be no problem for a being like Abomination. Air at that height is about 10 times thinner than air at the top of the Mount Everest. I have no problem believing that Abomination's repository system would work 10 times more efficiently(or even more) than a normal human in peak condition. I have much more trouble believing Iron Man himself would remain conscious at that height.

 

[Surfer]

Yeah that's what I mean both suits seem to have built in life support up to a certain altitude so they can maintain it for period of time at least. I just meant it you or I was were 30,000+ft up outside of any protection we wouldn't survive for very long you wouldn't need to take someone all the way out to space before the oxygen became to thin to breathe.

I realize that taking either character into space is not required for their to be a lack of oxygen. A lack of Oxygen can be accomplished for some regular human's by even bringing them into the Stratosphere, while some other human's that have lived around high Altitudes all their life can survive off of lower levels of oxygen, even in the Stratosphere. However, this discussion is not about where the oxygen runs out, but it is instead about whether Tony Stark inside the Iron Buster could survive without Oxygen, no matter which level of the Atmosphere that takes place in. And my answer is that he can't survive, because it is shown that he blacks out in the one instance he is subjected to no Oxygen, which was shown in the Avengers video link above. Once again he has upgraded Armor since then including creating the Hulk Buster, but as to whether a modification now allows him to breath in the suit without oxygen is purely speculation. Therefore, if the Hulk Buster needs to breath and the Abomination needs to breath, then trying to kill the Abomination in this manner would result in Tony's own death. And to that effect I feel Tony would die first, since Abomination could hold his breath longer. Once again I feel the Abomination not staying conscious for too long when Hulk was choking him was mostly due to him exerting himself to get free. If you are holding your breath the last thing you want to do is exert yourself. Try running and then holding your breath and see how well it works. It doesn't you need to breath within a few seconds. However, if you are calm you might be able to hold your breath for a few minutes. This is just how things work.

Surfer

 

[iEquinox]

An extra fun fact:
The current record for longest time spent on top of Mount Everest(8,848 m (29,029 ft)) without using an oxygen supply is 21 hours by a man called Babu Chiri Sherpa.

Meanwhile the "Time of Useful Consciousness" at that altitude is under 3 minutes.

 

[NealKenneth]

As fun as this looks, you guys are overthinking this.

I've mulled this over quite a bit at this point, and I am now going to go as far as saying that Stark would beat peak Abomination even in his regular suit. That's right, leave Veronica at home, Tony's got this. First of all, let's keep in mind that Stark beat Hulk in an all-out sustained brawl and that Hulk beat Abomination in similar fashion. There wasn't much cleverness to either of these fights. In the strict "how hard can you punch" category, Veronica is currently on top of that ladder in the MCU.

Stark is also much more clever than Blonsky...obviously. But let me push this one step further and point out that Blonsky isn't even clever to start with. The guy apparently is well-trained but his arrogance is his undoing on at least two occasions, both of which he is extremely lucky to have survived at all. And the icing on the cake is that his healing factor seems significantly slower than Hulk's (besides his initial transformation.)

I have no doubt that Stark could outmanuever and trick Blonsky into a quick defeat and wouldn't waste Veronica on it.

 

[Surfer]

As fun as this looks, you guys are overthinking this.

I've mulled this over quite a bit at this point, and I am now going to go as far as saying that Stark would beat peak Abomination even in his regular suit. That's right, leave Veronica at home, Tony's got this. First of all, let's keep in mind that Stark beat Hulk in an all-out sustained brawl and that Hulk beat Abomination in similar fashion. There wasn't much cleverness to either of these fights. In the strict "how hard can you punch" category, Veronica is currently on top of that ladder in the MCU.

Stark is also much more clever than Blonsky...obviously. But let me push this one step further and point out that Blonsky isn't even clever to start with. The guy apparently is well-trained but his arrogance is his undoing on at least two occasions, both of which he is extremely lucky to have survived at all. And the icing on the cake is that his healing factor seems significantly slower than Hulk's (besides his initial transformation.)

I have no doubt that Stark could outmanuever and trick Blonsky into a quick defeat and wouldn't waste Veronica on it.

In the strict "how hard can you punch" category, Veronica is currently on top of that ladder in the MCU.

I think you meant to say Hulk-Buster Iron Man in the spot bolded above.

As far as Hulk-Buster Iron Man winning without Veronica against Abomination, I personally do not see how that would happen. With Veronica Hulk-Buster stands a much better chance, but I still don't see it happening. However, that's what makes these fights fun is that everyone sees things differently and even though there is much evidence and information to draw upon at the end of everything it is still somewhat speculative. So, there is no real right or wrong only your opinion, my opinion and many other peoples opinions. However, with enough opinions there seems to be some credence lent to it being more of a truth, which is the ultimate goal of uncovering who is stronger. So, far the battle seems to be leaning towards you being right and me being wrong, but there is still a few days left so we will just have to see how it all plays out.

Surfer

 

[NealKenneth]

I don't know how you could set this up but it would be better to vote for odds of winning. Like, Abomination wins in 15% of scenarios or Stark wins in 40% of scenarios for example. Even though I think Stark would win in general, I can still think of plenty of situations where Blonsky would win.

 

[Surfer]

I don't know how you could set this up but it would be better to vote for odds of winning. Like, Abomination wins in 15% of scenarios or Stark wins in 40% of scenarios for example. Even though I think Stark would win in general, I can still think of plenty of situations where Blonsky would win.

I set it up so whoever wins the battle will be ranked above the other. So if Hulk-buster wins over Abomination then it will read.

Hulk-Buster Iron Man
Abomination

If Abomination wins it will read.

Abomination
Hulk-Buster Iron Man

Down the road there will be other battles with new characters against these already established characters. For example let's say for the sake of argument Hulk-Buster wins this battle, and later he battles the Hulk. Let's say for the sake of Argument Hulk also loses to the Hulk-Buster Iron Man, well then it would read.

Hulk-Buster Iron Man
Hulk & Abomination

So, the next battle would need to be Hulk Vs Abomination. We already established in this scenario Hulk's and Abominations placement against Hulk-Buster, but we do not have a placement for these characters against each other. So if Hulk wins against Abomination then it would read.

Hulk-Buster Iron Man
Hulk
Abomination

If Abomination wins the battle it would read

Hulk-Buster Iron Man
Abomination
Hulk

This process will be used with all characters until they are ranked in order of how the fans perceive their MCU appearances powerwise. Keep in mind that a character can get a better ranking if they have been ranked previously, but there is a more recent appearance. Sometimes this,appearance may show them in a new light and could change how people perceive their power levels.

Anyways, I hope that explains the process.

Surfer

 

[ludovica]

Lasers.
If Tony goes in for the kill it's over quickly IMO.
Should we consider moral qualms or treat these as battles to the death?
Especially when it will come to Spidey or DD.

 

[Surfer]

Lasers.
If Tony goes in for the kill it's over quickly IMO.
Should we consider moral qualms or treat these as battles to the death?
Especially when it will come to Spidey or DD.

The battles are considered to be to the Knock Out, but technically if a character was unconscious they would most likely be pretty susceptible to killing at that point as well. So you can probably figure it either way and I think the results of who wins would be the same.

Also, people if you can please include which power tier you feel each of these characters resides within, by leaving the details in the comment section.

Thanks for voting.

Surfer

 

[ludovica]

The battles are considered to be to the Knock Out, but technically if a character was unconscious they would most likely be pretty susceptible to killing at that point as well.

I think it changes a lot in this case if Tony is going for a knock out instead of anything goes to stop a threat to civilians.

I'd put both on the powerhouse tier, maybe even regular armor Tony.

 

[FlareKnight]

I'm absolutely giving this one to Hulk Buster, no doubt in my mind. I just didn't see anything from the Abomination in that Hulk movie that would tip the fight to his favor. I just think Tony has the advantage in brain power, the right tech, and the ability to stay ahead of the damage that the Abomination is able to dish out.

Hulk Buster gets powerhouse tier and Abomination sits at top tier in my mind.

 

[jolldan]

I would be interested to see how Blonsky would stand up to this

 

[iEquinox]

I would be interested to see how Blonsky would stand up to this

I don't think it would be able to do any damage to someone with Abomination's durability. Those drones in IM2 had very low durability. They got completely ripped apart by War Machine's machine gun(and Iron Man's punches went straight through them). When Iron Man used those lasers on the Leviathan in the Avengers, Jarvis said "Sir, we will lose power before we penetrate that shell". Meanwhile Hulk was ripping that armor apart like it was cardboard. We know Hulk's durability was much higher than the Leviathan. And so is Abomination's.

Since the Leviathan was not affected by them, I don't think Abomination would be affected either.

 

[Quasimod0]

I voted hulkbuster and I think they're both powerhouse tier.

 

[BigThor]

Wow this unbelievable.

 

[Surfer]

Wow this unbelievable.

Yeah, I know! I mean to me when Hulk-Buster was in the lead by a few votes earlier I was a surprise, but now he has over a 33% lead on Abomination. That is pretty huge and to me very unexpected. Still Drax in the last battle almost came back to win from several points behind. So there is always a small chance of more votes coming in last minute that can turn the tide. I guess we will see.

Surfer

 

[jaqua99]

Wow this unbelievable.

I know!

So given this consensus, people will probably give Hulkbuster a victory over Hulk too, seeing as Hulk in AoU wasn't standard.

His fight with Abomination was way closer than the score of this fight, so I'd imagine a matchup with Hulk will sway in Veronica's favor. It is Tony though, we live Tony

BT, do Hulkbuster vs Thor for your next one.

 

[Batmannerism]

I know!

So given this consensus, people will probably give Hulkbuster a victory over Hulk too, seeing as Hulk in AoU wasn't standard.

His fight with Abomination was way closer than the score of this fight, so I'd imagine a matchup with Hulk will sway in Veronica's favor. It is Tony though, we live Tony

BT, do Hulkbuster vs Thor for your next one.

Hulkbuster v Thor is tough - I mean, do you go Thor with Mjolnir (pre Ragnarok) or Thor no-Mjolnir (Ragnarok) or Thor no-Mjolnir but big power up (Ragnarok) ?

Similarly, if you watch his strength feats, Captain America gets stronger in every film - so which Cap do you go with ?

 

[BigThor]

Hulkbuster v Thor is tough - I mean, do you go Thor with Mjolnir (pre Ragnarok) or Thor no-Mjolnir (Ragnarok) or Thor no-Mjolnir but big power up (Ragnarok) ?

Similarly, if you watch his strength feats, Captain America gets stronger in every film - so which Cap do you go with ?

We use the most current incarnations.

 

[Surfer]

We use the most current incarnations.

Well the thing is that Thor appears the most powerful he has ever been in Ragnarok. But did he unlock this power in Ragnarok or did he have it previously and just hold back. Because technically if he is shown to be the most powerful in Ragnarok, but just held back previously, then I would say that previous Thor was more powerful due to the aid of Mjolnir, despite not appearing that way. Also, while the most recent viewing of these characters is definitely the focal point of a characters power levels, I don't feel someone should have to dismiss previous viewings of a character that might provide context to their argument as long as it seems relevant. In addition given Thor has appeared with and without Mjolnir, if we create a battle for him it may be a good idea to treat Mjolnir as an Artifact even though it is one he commonly uses.

Surfer

 

[iEquinox]

Well the thing is that Thor appears the most powerful he has ever been in Ragnarok. But did he unlock this power in Ragnarok or did he have it previously and just hold back. Because technically if he is shown to be the most powerful in Ragnarok, but just held back previously, then I would say that previous Thor was more powerful due to the aid of Mjolnir, despite not appearing that way. Also, while the most recent viewing of these characters is definitely the focal point of a characters power levels, I don't feel someone should have to dismiss previous viewings of a character that might provide context to their argument as long as it seems relevant. In addition given Thor has appeared with and without Mjolnir, if we create a battle for him it may be a good idea to treat Mjolnir as an Artifact even though it is one he commonly uses.

Surfer

I think it was made very clear in Ragnarok that he

Spoiler

always had that power, but hadn't unlocked it yet. He was not holding back previously.

While he had the power in him, he was not aware of it, and he was unable to channel it. Previously, he needed Mjolnir to focus his power. But like Odin said in the movie when Thor said "She's too powerful, and I don't have my hammer", Thor is the "God of Thunder", not the "God of Hammers". Odin said Thor used Mjolnir to channel his power, but it was not a source of his power. He has now learned how to channel his power through his body instead of through Mjolnir, which is skill he did not have previously.

Thor also said to Odin: "I'm not as strong as you", and Odin replied: "I know. You're stronger". Thor did not realise his full potential yet before this movie. His powers have gotten a significant upgrade from his past appearances. Previous Thor was not more powerful.

If he had ended up in a similar situation to what happened in his fight vs Hulk, he might have unlocked this power sooner though.

 

[Surfer]

I think it was made very clear in Ragnarok that he

Spoiler

always had that power, but hadn't unlocked it yet. He was not holding back previously.

While he had the power in him, he was not aware of it, and he was unable to channel it. Previously, he needed Mjolnir to focus his power. But like Odin said in the movie when Thor said "She's too powerful, and I don't have my hammer", Thor is the "God of Thunder", not the "God of Hammers". Odin said Thor used Mjolnir to channel his power, but it was not a source of his power. He has now learned how to channel his power through his body instead of through Mjolnir, which is skill he did not have previously.

Thor also said to Odin: "I'm not as strong as you", and Odin replied: "I know. You're stronger". Thor did not realise his full potential yet before this movie. His powers have gotten a significant upgrade from his past appearances. Previous Thor was not more powerful.

If he had ended up in a similar situation to what happened in his fight vs Hulk, he might have unlocked this power sooner though.

Well part of my response had to do with the fact that I have not seen it yet, and even though I have read many spoilers, I did not recall reading anything related to this subject. So, thanks for clearing that up for me. Hopefully, I will be able to go see it soon.

Surfer

 

[BigThor]

BT, do Hulkbuster vs Thor for your next one.

Let's wait until everyone has seen Thor: Raggnarok to do that, I say sometime towards the end of this month.

Also we should add Fenris, Valkyrie, and Heimdall to the list of characters.

 

[iEquinox]

Well part of my response had to do with the fact that I have not seen it yet, and even though I have read many spoilers, I did not recall reading anything related to this subject. So, thanks for clearing that up for me. Hopefully, I will be able to go see it soon.

Surfer

Oh ok. That's probably also a good reason to hold this off for a few weeks, until more people have had a chance to see the movie:

BT, do Hulkbuster vs Thor for your next one.

EDIT: Ah, looks like I've been ninja'd.