MCU Fight: Vision vs Hulkbuster Ironman

[BigThor]

Dudes, I am disappointed. This is almost a curb stomp, it's not even close. Vision's density control ( either intangible or super dense) makes him pretty much immune to most of Hulkbuster's attacks and also makes Hulkbuster completely vulnerable to Vision's attacks.

The only way Tony wins is with prep time, as Hawkeye's electric arrows slowed vision down, so he is vulnerable to some forms of electricity even when intangible.

Maybe if Tony waits until Viz phases and then hits him with a massive charge he could short him out or render him unconscious. Or maybe upload a virus and damage his artificial mind ? But these are weapons which require planning and preparation.

Brute force attacks are going to do nothing at all.

If Tony thinks this one out he has a chance, but if he just relies on the Hulkbuster's weapons, he's toast.

Disappointed in what? We're using this to build a tier system it's not just random matchups.

 

[Chance Jackson]

Vision has a lot going for him, and while he doesn't seem to really do this whole "fight" thing in the films, we see from his showing against the ultron bots that he can, and if he does, I really don't see what answer Tony is going to have.

The 'weaknesses' he showed in Civil War are so specific: electricity and Wanda's powers, it's hard to really attribute them to anything except those very specific things. At the same time, we see him tank and by that I mean ACTUALLY tank a bus which doesn't even budge him, but splits in half because it can't cause him to move. This makes sense because he's made of vibranium, and if his whole body is constructed from the stuff Cap's shield is made of... even if you do stun him, how do you hurt him? And for this battle... how do you hurt him with the Hulkbuster armor?

Vision takes this, and makes it look easy, and apologizes while doing it.

this, Vision is OP as hell, using his phase abilities he can 1 shot Tony

 

[Spider-Fan]

Honestly, Vision may be transcendent tier. If he isn't, then he is absolute tops of powerhouse tier. He has an infinity stone, after all. No one has really been able to fight Vision to this point. Scarlet Witch used the gem against him because she has a connection to it, but no Avenger really matches him.

Hulkbuster Iron Man is firmly powerhouse tier with Hulk and Thor.

 

[DrCosmic]

^I could see that.

 

[Surfer]

Disappointed in what? We're using this to build a tier system it's not just random matchups.

I think he is just suggesting that we could have done a better job at finding a better starting opponent for Vision like going up against Thor or Hulk. But honestly it's hard to gauge how everyone is going view character power levels. For example I felt Ultron Prime could have taken down Hela, while the vast majority of people did not. So, these things are always somewhat subjective. Also, if you think about these characters as a match up there are some similarities that make it exciting, like they are both 1/2 Man 1/2 Machine and both have extreme intelligence. Not to mention the classic match up of the Creator vs. the Creation. Even though Vision is not entirely Tony's creation, as other characters had a part in it. Jarvis very much is Tony's creation and it is at the core of who Vision is as a character. So, there are some dynamics with this battle that I personally feel are exciting, but we do our best and I guess you can't please everyone all the time.

Thanks!

Surfer

 

[Thör-El]

Honestly, Vision may be transcendent tier. If he isn't, then he is absolute tops of powerhouse tier. He has an infinity stone, after all. No one has really been able to fight Vision to this point. Scarlet Witch used the gem against him because she has a connection to it, but no Avenger really matches him.

Hulkbuster Iron Man is firmly powerhouse tier with Hulk and Thor.

Are you sure about that?

Thor beat a mind gem sceptre wielding Loki (who I'd say wielded the gem better than Vision has), fought evenly with a reality gem wielding Malekith and we saw with Ultron that Vibranium has a melting point.
Oh and if Hawkeye's electricity arrows can hurt/stun Vision are you really telling me the God of Thunder can't?

As for Vision vs Hulk, I think it'd be a good fight but my bet's on either Hulk or a stalemate. Vision has the durability/phasing to survive Hulk but I don't think he has the strength/firepower to put him down.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Are you sure about that?

Thor beat a mind gem sceptre wielding Loki (who I'd say wielded the gem better than Vision has), fought evenly with a reality gem wielding Malekith and we saw with Ultron that Vibranium has a melting point.
Oh and if Hawkeye's electricity arrows can hurt/stun Vision are you really telling me the God of Thunder can't?

In Loki's case, I don't think he knew what he had. I doubt Thanos taught him it was a stone. At least, we see no evidence he knew anything beyond mind control and blasting things. Malekith, I chalk it up to he was an idiot, LOL!!!

As for Vision vs Hulk, I think it'd be a good fight but my bet's on either Hulk or a stalemate. Vision has the durability/phasing to survive Hulk but I don't think he has the strength/firepower to put him down.

I think he definitely does. Hulk is durable, no doubt, but Vision will just wear him down. Hulk cannot really overpower him much. He'll just phase through everything. Thor would have a better shot due to lightning, but I still see Vision winning.

 

[Thör-El]

In Loki's case, I don't think he knew what he had. I doubt Thanos taught him it was a stone. At least, we see no evidence he knew anything beyond mind control and blasting things. Malekith, I chalk it up to he was an idiot, LOL!!!

Yeah, we don't actually get confirmation Loki understood the mind stone, just that Thanos "put the sceptre in his hand and gave him ancient knowledge". Still, Loki used it for mind control, communicating with the Other on the other side of the galaxy and blasting things. Vision on the other hand has only used it for blasting things and he even has a line in Civil War saying he doesn't understand the mind gem or how to control it.

Between that, Thor being more durable than anyone Vision's hurt and the small matter of lightning vs Vision's electricity weakness I think it's looking one sided.

I think he definitely does. Hulk is durable, no doubt, but Vision will just wear him down. Hulk cannot really overpower him much. He'll just phase through everything. Thor would have a better shot due to lightning, but I still see Vision winning.

I don't think he's shown any strength feats in Hulk's league and I don't think the mind gem beam's enough to put him down either.
I agree Hulk can't hurt him if he phases but unless waiting for Hulk to calm down counts as a win that just makes it a stalemate.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Yeah, we don't actually get confirmation Loki understood the mind stone, just that Thanos "put the sceptre in his hand and gave him ancient knowledge". Still, Loki used it for mind control, communicating with the Other on the other side of the galaxy and blasting things. Vision on the other hand has only used it for blasting things and he even has a line in Civil War saying he doesn't understand the mind gem or how to control it.

Between that, Thor being more durable than than anyone Vision's hurt and the small matter of lightning vs Vision's electricity weakness I think it's looking one sided.


I don't think he's shown any strength feats in Hulk's league and I don't think the mind gem beam's enough to put him down either.
I agree Hulk can't hurt him if he phases but unless waiting for Hulk to calm down counts as a win that just makes it a stalemate.

Vision has not had to exert force like that. In fact, he's made what he has done look effortless. Part of why I say he is so OP, no one has challenged him except when Wanda tapped into the stone itself.

 

[Thör-El]

Vision has not had to exert force like that. In fact, he's made what he has done look effortless. Part of why I say he is so OP, no one has challenged him except when Wanda tapped into the stone itself.

That plus Hawkeye's electric arrows clearly hurt him, Ultron seemed physically stronger and he missed/shot down one of his own team in the airport fight.

Anyway, nobody's challenged him because he's hardly fought anyone. By that logic Pepper Potts can beat Thor/Hulk.

 

[Spider-Fan]

That plus Hawkeye's electric arrows clearly hurt him, Ultron seemed physically stronger and he missed/shot down one of his own team in the airport fight.

Anyway, nobody's challenged him because he's hardly fought anyone. By that logic Pepper Potts can beat Thor/Hulk.

I wouldn't say they hurt him so much as kept him still. Further, in Civil War's airport battle, when did Vision take like ANY damage? But, he dished out a couple big blows. Also he knocked Ultron clear on the other side of Sokovia with Mjolnir. Clearly he is powerful based on what we have seen.

 

[Thör-El]

I wouldn't say they hurt him so much as kept him still. Further, in Civil War's airport battle, when did Vision take like ANY damage? But, he dished out a couple big blows. Also he knocked Ultron clear on the other side of Sokovia with Mjolnir. Clearly he is powerful based on what we have seen.

#1) If you watch it he grunts in pain then grits his teeth. Vision's made of Vibranium so he's probably durable as hell but electricity seems to be a weakness. Plus yeah, they stunned him. Thor's lightning would do a lot worse than that.

#2) I agree Vision's the most powerful character in Civil War but Thor/Hulk were outright left out of Civil War because they're too overpowered.

#3) Yeah but that was with Mjolnir

 

[Spider-Fan]

#1) If you watch it he grunts in pain then grits his teeth. Vision's made of Vibranium so he's probably durable as hell but electricity seems to be a weakness. Plus yeah, they stunned him. Thor's lightning would do a lot worse than that.

Not necessarily. Electric shocks make you grit your teeth involuntarily. He showed no signs of being in pain and shook it off almost immediately.

#3) Yeah but that was with Mjolnir

Doesn't matter. He still did it. I think you're trying to find excuses to under sell Vision when you're trying to use this as a defense.

 

[parkerpete]

That plus Hawkeye's electric arrows clearly hurt him, Ultron seemed physically stronger and he missed/shot down one of his own team in the airport fight.

Anyway, nobody's challenged him because he's hardly fought anyone. By that logic Pepper Potts can beat Thor/Hulk.

That logic is dumb.
It stands to reason that since Vision was designed to be Ultron's final body, that he's AT LEAST as tough and strong as Ultron-prime, along with an infinity stone laser and the ability to phase. You don't need him to fight anyone to make a pretty good guess at what his baseline power tier is.

 

[Thör-El]

Not necessarily. Electric shocks make you grit your teeth involuntarily. He showed no signs of being in pain and shook it off almost immediately.

He managed to turn his head enough to blast the arrow but it was restraining/hurting him.

Doesn't matter. He still did it. I think you're trying to find excuses to under sell Vision when you're trying to use this as a defense.

I'm not talking him down, I called him the most powerful character in Civil War and based on what we know about vibranium he must be durable as hell.

Still, you're talking down Mjolnir if you're saying an Asgardian warhammer forged in a dying star didn't help Vision hit a lot harder than usual.

 

[Spider-Fan]

He managed to turn his head enough to blast the arrow but it was restraining/hurting him.

Again, that is involuntary when you're being electrified. When did he show any pain there after it stopped? Answer: never

I'm not talking him down, I called him the most powerful character in Civil War and based on what we know about vibranium he must be durable as hell.

Still, you're talking down Mjolnir if you're saying an Asgardian warhammer forged in a dying star didn't help Vision hit a lot harder than usual.

But, just hitting someone with it won't do all the work. That's my point. Like, if Hawkeye hit someone with it, assuming he could, the target would not fly to Siberia likely. Otherwise, that would mean Thor contributes nothing when using it.

 

[Thör-El]

That logic is dumb.
It stands to reason that since Vision was designed to be Ultron's final body, that he's AT LEAST as tough and strong as Ultron-prime, along with an infinity stone laser and the ability to phase. You don't need him to fight anyone to make a pretty good guess at what his baseline power tier is.

Nothing dumb in saying looking at the hard evidence/feats from the films is better than making presumptions. We haven't seen Vision's strength/durability tested to its limits yet but putting him above Thor/Hulk/Ultron is a big claim when he's only fought weaker characters and doesn't have feats showing he's as strong as they are.

Strength wise we've seen them grapple and Ultron was physically stronger. As for the mind stone, like I said above, Thor has already beaten Loki when he was wielding the same stone more competently then we've seen Vision wield it.

Again, that is involuntary when you're being electrified. When did he show any pain there after it stopped? Answer: never

Sure, he recovered but it still happened and he showed pain whilst it was happening.
Anyway, you agree the arrow affected him which suggests Vision has some kind of weakness to electricity? And I presume you agree Thor's lightning is a lot more powerful than Hawkeye's arrows?

But, just hitting someone with it won't do all the work. That's my point. Like, if Hawkeye hit someone with it, assuming he could, the target would not fly to Siberia likely. Otherwise, that would mean Thor contributes nothing when using it

Sure, a stronger character with a magic hammer hits harder than a weaker character with the same hammer. But they're both still hitting a lot harder than they would without the hammer.

What I'm saying is that logically Mjolnir hugely boosts Vision's striking power and that we haven't seen him hit nearly that hard without it. I think it's a fair point.

 

[Fosterson]

It's difficult to know how powerful Vision really is. His only real combat feats have been against fodder (Ultron bots and Hawkeye), so we don't know what his upper limits are yet. Him being restrained by Hawkeye's arrows was dumb, so I'm willing to just count that as PIS, similar to Thor being restrained by hand-cuffs and walls in Ragnarok, or Wolverine being KO'd by a single bullet in X2.

That being said, based on his one-shotting of War Machine, I think he would be more than capable of wrecking Tony with the Mind Stone.

 

[parkerpete]

It's difficult to know how powerful Vision really is. His only real combat feats have been against fodder (Ultron bots and Hawkeye), so we don't know what his upper limits are yet. Him being restrained by Hawkeye's arrows was dumb, so I'm willing to just count that as PIS, similar to Thor being restrained by hand-cuffs and walls in Ragnarok, or Wolverine being KO'd by a single bullet in X2.

That being said, based on his one-shotting of War Machine, I think he would be more than capable of wrecking Tony with the Mind Stone.

 

[Batmannerism]

Disappointed in what? We're using this to build a tier system it's not just random matchups.

Disappointed because the best of these battles are the close ones where strong opinions and reasoning go hand in hand. Where you pick two reasonably evenly matched characters and we really have to discuss the hell put of it. It's the close ones that make these threads so much fun.

This one is too easy. There's no way Vision is going to lose this. The infinity stone blast took out War machine at great distance with ease- Hulkbuster is just a bigger version, it might last a whole two seconds longer, or Vision phases his fist into the armour, then turns solid, like he did with the Ultron drones.

I think we can pretty safely say that they are either in different tiers or at opposite ends of the same tier.

Vision vs Ghost Rider, now that's got some promise.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Sure, he recovered but it still happened and he showed pain whilst it was happening.
Anyway, you agree the arrow affected him which suggests Vision has some kind of weakness to electricity? And I presume you agree Thor's lightning is a lot more powerful than Hawkeye's arrows?

I think we can also agree, with video evidence, that Thor was rendered unconscious and helpless by a garden variety taser on Sakaar many times. So, if Vision is somehow depowered by what happened with Hawkeye's arrows, then Thor looks MUCH weaker in comparison. He didn't shake off those shocks like Vision did.

Sure, a stronger character with a magic hammer hits harder than a weaker character with the same hammer. But they're both still hitting a lot harder than they would without the hammer.

What I'm saying is that logically Mjolnir hugely boosts Vision's striking power and that we haven't seen him hit nearly that hard without it. I think it's a fair point.

So, Mjolnir does all the work and Thor adds nothing to his blows. Got it, we agree now

I think we need to move Thor down a tier without Mjolnir, guys. It does all the work.

 

[Thör-El]

I've heard of lunatics running the asylum, first time I've seen a mod trolling the forums.

I think we can also agree, with video evidence, that Thor was rendered unconscious and helpless by a garden variety taser on Sakaar many times. So, if Vision is somehow depowered by what happened with Hawkeye's arrows, then Thor looks MUCH weaker in comparison. He didn't shake off those shocks like Vision did.

Thor was rendered unconscious by a power disruptor on a planet that specialises in enslaving superhuman gladiators and has dealt with Asgardians before.
Vision was struggling against Hawkeye's earth tech electricity arrows.

I
So, Mjolnir does all the work and Thor adds nothing to his blows. Got it, we agree now

I think we need to move Thor down a tier without Mjolnir, guys. It does all the work.

It's really not complicated, give a character Mjolnir and they're going to hit harder. Vision doesn't usually have Mjolnir so he usually doesn't hit that hard. Thor minus the hammer/lightning he usually has doesn't hit nearly as hard either (it'd probably make him a mid powerhouse, below Vision and Hulk).
If it helps you get your head round how hammers work we can look at Thor with Mjolnir vs with no weapons:

Thing is then Thor started to figure out his powers and this happened:

 

[Spider-Fan]

I've heard of lunatics running the asylum, first time I've seen a mod trolling the forums.



Thor was rendered unconscious by a power disruptor on a planet that specialises in enslaving superhuman gladiators and has dealt with Asgardians before.
Vision was struggling against Hawkeye's earth tech electricity arrows.

That device is never referred to as a power dampener as far as I am remembering. All I remember was Thor said do not ZAP me with that thing again. Indicating it was more like a taser.

It's really not complicated, give a character Mjolnir and they're going to hit harder. Vision doesn't usually have Mjolnir so he usually doesn't hit that hard. Thor minus the hammer/lightning he usually has doesn't hit nearly as hard either (it'd probably make him a mid powerhouse, below Vision and Hulk).

Thor with Mjolnir:

Thor with a regular hammer:

Thor with no hammer:

Of course then Thor figured out his powers and this happened:

Show me 1 time Thor hit someone further with Mjolnir than Vision did with it? Just one. Because to my eyes, it looks like his hammer strikes are as powerful as Vision's strike was there. So, if we're comparing Mjolnir welders, I see him as being as strong as Thor.

 

[Thör-El]

That device is never referred to as a power dampener as far as I am remembering. All I remember was Thor said do not ZAP me with that thing again. Indicating it was more like a taser.

Can't say I've watched the interview myself but apparently this is what Taika said:

Yes Taika said they depower you, so even if they are using electricity it still makes sense because Thor without his powers are not immune to electricity. As a matter of fact Taika actually said the obedience disks puts Thor in the same state as he was in after he lost his hammer and powers in Thor 1.

So I stand by that a fully powered Thor is immune or highly resistant to electrical shock.

Source: http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?p=36464429#post36464429

Show me 1 time Thor hit someone further with Mjolnir than Vision did with it? Just one. Because to my eyes, it looks like his hammer strikes are as powerful as Vision's strike was there. So, if we're comparing Mjolnir welders, I see him as being as strong as Thor.

Wait, so you want to compare Thor with Mjolnir to Vision with Mjolnir?
Probably a way closer fight, Thor's shown a lot more skill with it but take lightning out the equation and I don't really have a strong opinion on which of them hits harder, not sure that'd decide the winner. Lightning versus that electricity weakness on the other hand......

As for your strangely specific request, technically Thor hit Malekith all the way to another planet.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Can't say I've watched the interview myself but apparently this is what Taika said:




Wait, so you want to compare Thor with Mjolnir to Vision with Mjolnir?
Probably a way closer fight and I can't see who hits harder settling it. Lightning versus that electricity weakness on the other hand......

As for your strangely specific request, technically Thor hit Malekith all the way to another planet.

That was through a portal. Not like he flew from Earth into space and to another planet. But, I have yet to see Thor hit someone with Mjolnir any harder than Vision hit Ultron, so that tells me the strikes were of equal strength, therefore Vision's strength level is high.

On the Taika interview, would it have killed him to outright state what the device did in the movie? LOL!