MCU: Phase II

[DrCosmic]

I agree with everything you've said in that short post CherokeeSam. As I always have. If you really do leave it there, then there's no reason for us to argue.

But as soon as you say they're not building a story with a definite ending (my overall point), or that the MCU is unfolding just like comics continuity did (what you said Feige said in the last post), or assuming that anyone who acknowledges that the story has to end thinks the continuity has to end, then I have to call shenanigans, because that's neither logic nor Feige quoting. It's just you not paying attention.

 

[cherokeesam]

I agree with everything you've said in that short post CherokeeSam. As I always have. If you really do leave it there, then there's no reason for us to argue.

But as soon as you say they're not building a story with a definite ending (my overall point), or that the MCU is unfolding just like comics continuity did (what you said Feige said in the last post), or assuming that anyone who acknowledges that the story has to end thinks the continuity has to end, then I have to call shenanigans, because that's neither logic nor Feige quoting. It's just you not paying attention.

Then go ahead and call shenanigans.

WHAT "story with a definite ending" are the Marvel films telling? How is this mysterious story arc that you seem to believe in linking the individual movies? Hell, where do you even see any evidence that the six Phase I movies had anything in common? "SHIELD, Tesseract, Loki", you said.....where were they in TIH? Where did the Tesseract and Loki fit into IM1 or 2? Did Loki have a cameo in CATFA that I missed? Again, the only thing *loosely* connecting the Phase I movies is that they introduced the four main Avengers, then teamed them up.

However, it is *total supposition* on your part to think that Phase II will have *any* sort of common thread. Hell, I used to think that maybe it would be a cosmic-oriented Phase or something, but there's absolutely nothing to indicate that IM3, CA2, Ant-Man, Hulk 2 or Black Panther (all *possible* Phase II movies, according to various rumormills) are going to have a darn thing to do with Thanos or anything else Cosmic Marvel. Odds are that Thanos will appear in two Phase II movies, if Loki's Phase I arc is any precedent; but even I think it's ridiculous to think there'd be even an easter-egg mention of the Mad Titan in any of the earthbound Phase II films.

Just because Phase I built up to the Avengers assembling in a spectacular fashion is no indication whatsoever that Phase II will include a similar build-up to Avengers 2. Avengers 2 will be a great film, but, like its comic counterpart, it is now simply another installment in another franchise. An Iron Man sequel; a Thor sequel; a Cap sequel; an Avengers sequel. Not another Avengers "event" --- a sequel. Hell, we don't even know WHEN Avengers 2 comes out, or how long this "Phase II" will last.

Again: quit giving so much importance to the term "Phase." There is NO proof that these "Phases" have anything to do with story elements, but instead represent convenient compartmentalization on the studio's part to describe the next batch of films they want to begin production on.

 

[Markyboy00]

I'm new on here and I tried reading thru some of these posts.. I just wanted to know what new heroes are going to be brought in to go up against thanos?

 

[DrCosmic]

Then go ahead and call shenanigans.

WHAT "story with a definite ending" are the Marvel films telling? How is this mysterious story arc that you seem to believe in linking the individual movies? Hell, where do you even see any evidence that the six Phase I movies had anything in common? "SHIELD, Tesseract, Loki", you said.....where were they in TIH? Where did the Tesseract and Loki fit into IM1 or 2? Did Loki have a cameo in CATFA that I missed? Again, the only thing *loosely* connecting the Phase I movies is that they introduced the four main Avengers, then teamed them up.

However, it is *total supposition* on your part to think that Phase II will have *any* sort of common thread. Hell, I used to think that maybe it would be a cosmic-oriented Phase or something, but there's absolutely nothing to indicate that IM3, CA2, Ant-Man, Hulk 2 or Black Panther (all *possible* Phase II movies, according to various rumormills) are going to have a darn thing to do with Thanos or anything else Cosmic Marvel. Odds are that Thanos will appear in two Phase II movies, if Loki's Phase I arc is any precedent; but even I think it's ridiculous to think there'd be even an easter-egg mention of the Mad Titan in any of the earthbound Phase II films.

Just because Phase I built up to the Avengers assembling in a spectacular fashion is no indication whatsoever that Phase II will include a similar build-up to Avengers 2. Avengers 2 will be a great film, but, like its comic counterpart, it is now simply another installment in another franchise. An Iron Man sequel; a Thor sequel; a Cap sequel; an Avengers sequel. Not another Avengers "event" --- a sequel. Hell, we don't even know WHEN Avengers 2 comes out, or how long this "Phase II" will last.

Again: quit giving so much importance to the term "Phase." There is NO proof that these "Phases" have anything to do with story elements, but instead represent convenient compartmentalization on the studio's part to describe the next batch of films they want to begin production on.

As I said in the post before last, it is not a linear story. In a movie, is there a common thread pulling together every scene? No, but all the different aspects of the story come together in the climax, making it one story. That's what happened with Avengers. So, again, Phase I told one story with one ending without having a 'common thread' throughout every single movie or scene. that's how storytelling works. So can we drop this 'common thread' contention now? There's a reason you never heard me say that, because you don't need a common thread to have one story.

Now it's true that Phase I having a build up and culmination doesn't guarantee that Phase II will do the same, however it does show that Marvel's initial strategy was to have a build up and culmination, and it shows that strategy was wildly successful. I'll put my money on Marvel Studios repeating their billion dollar strategy rather than Avengers 2 just being another installment. But your'e right, Marvel could change up the whole strategy for reasons that we have no indication of. The reason can't be to mimic the comics, because if that was sufficient motivation, they would have done that in Phase I.

My question Sam, is why would you want them to be 'just another installment?' What is the advantage? There's a clear advantage to build up, people who see one can't wait to see what happens with X in the next one... but if every story is an open and shut case... what does that *give* us?

 

[DrCosmic]

I'm new on here and I tried reading thru some of these posts.. I just wanted to know what new heroes are going to be brought in to go up against thanos?

Welcome to the boards! In general, you should just skip over anything me and Sam post when we're quoting each other. Currently the rumor is that the only new heroes getting their own films before Avengers 2 are Guardians of the Galaxy and Ant-Man, and it's possible that none of these heroes will be on the Avengers in Avengers 2. There was a rumor of Black Panther before, but that seems to be overturned. So to answer your question: probably no one, but maybe Ant-Man, assuming Thanos is a sequel villain and not a trilogy villain who just plays mastermind in 2 and then actually puts his foot down in 3.

 

[cherokeesam]

As I said in the post before last, it is not a linear story. In a movie, is there a common thread pulling together every scene? No, but all the different aspects of the story come together in the climax, making it one story. That's what happened with Avengers. So, again, Phase I told one story with one ending without having a 'common thread' throughout every single movie or scene. that's how storytelling works. So can we drop this 'common thread' contention now? There's a reason you never heard me say that, because you don't need a common thread to have one story.

Now it's true that Phase I having a build up and culmination doesn't guarantee that Phase II will do the same, however it does show that Marvel's initial strategy was to have a build up and culmination, and it shows that strategy was wildly successful. I'll put my money on Marvel Studios repeating their billion dollar strategy rather than Avengers 2 just being another installment. But your'e right, Marvel could change up the whole strategy for reasons that we have no indication of. The reason can't be to mimic the comics, because if that was sufficient motivation, they would have done that in Phase I.

My question Sam, is why would you want them to be 'just another installment?' What is the advantage? There's a clear advantage to build up, people who see one can't wait to see what happens with X in the next one... but if every story is an open and shut case... what does that *give* us?

What does that give us? Simple...individual episodes that don't force the audience to have seen previous installments and/or other unrelated franchise films in order to enjoy the movie. Like, you know, James Bond films. Or Indiana Jones films. Or, hey, Iron Man films. Feige made it an important point in developing the shared film universe that you *didn't* have to invest yourself in the solo films to appreciate Avengers, or vice versa.

If you want to create an overarching story that weaves multiple characters through a bunch of different stories, then television is your medium for that. TV is PERFECTLY designed for that kind of storytelling (Lost, V, Falling Skies, pretty much any soap opera, etc.); film is not.

For an overarching storyline in the Avengers, you'd have to require audiences to be invested in a BUNCH of different movies and a BUNCH of different franchises, both solo and team. Audiences would have to keep up with film series that create new episodes only every coupla three years or so, and would have to keep the storylines straight between multiple films over a span of years. In other words: it would be confusing as hell ("wait, was that the guy who did the thing back in Thor 3?" "No, he was the dude from Black Panther 2." "Oh, the one who killed that bad guy in Avengers 6?" "No, you're thinking of Namor 2." "....I think I'm having an aneurysm...." )

 

[DrCosmic]

You may not know this, but people enjoyed Avengers without having seen IM/Hulk/IM2/Thor/Cap. There's no need to lose what makes Avengers successful in order to allow it to continue to do what it already does. They made a culmination that didn't force the audience to have seen previous films. They did this by doing a brief recap on all the important characters and objects so no one would get confused, not all at once, but if you pay attention, everyone and everything is introduced afresh.

And while TV is superior for telling serial stories, no doubt, when you manage to do it on the big screen, as Avengers did, you can make a billion dollars. Greater risk, greater difficulty, greater reward. That's what Feige decided to do, and it's worked out pretty great so far.

 

[marcvader]

Can a mod please change the thread title to MCU: Phase Cherokeesam vs. DrCosmic?

 

[DrCosmic]

Ugh. Sorry. I'm done... I keep going back trying to find what the discussion was before this, and I can't find it.

Uh...

Anyone think someone from the GotG will be joining the Avengers?

Anyone think Thanos won't be defeated in Avengers 2?

 

[Markyboy00]

Ok.. And I'll remember that first part Dr.Cosmic.. HaHa

I just dont think the current roster has what it takes to go up against Thanos yet. If they keep Thanos as powerful as he is in the comics, then they're going to have to add some big time players. Guys like Quasar, Nova, Silver Surfer, even Moondragon.. But I think for Avengers II they should go with Ultron as the villain, especially if they're going with an Ant-Man movie. And they already gave a glimpse of the original Human Torch in the Captain America movie. It would be a good way to incorporate it all together.. A Guardians of the Galaxy Movie would be awesome.. Which roster are they talking about using?

 

[marcvader]

Ugh. Sorry. I'm done... I keep going back trying to find what the discussion was before this, and I can't find it.

Uh...

Anyone think someone from the GotG will be joining the Avengers?

Anyone think Thanos won't be defeated in Avengers 2?

It's cool, just messin with you guys. I certainly hope Thanos doesn't get defeated or even fully be part of A2 for that matter. I'd much more prefer a lesser villain and continue the build up to him in A3.

 

[DJ_KiDDvIcIOUs]

Phase II is going to rock! I need more Hulk in my life

 

[Markyboy00]

My vote is still for Ultron to be the main villain in Avengers2.. Have Pym creating him in the Ant-Man movie, and then he goes bad in Avengers2.. He could also use the body of the Original Human Torch seen in Captain America, to create the Vision.. Perfectly following how it happend in the comics many years ago..

 

[Markyboy00]

I just saw that the cast for Iron Man 3 includes the Falcon..

 

[marcvader]

Link?

 

[spideyboy_1111]

bogus. falcon wouldn't make sense in IM3

 

[Markyboy00]

I agree.. He should be in with Cap..
Cast

Credited cast:Robert Downey Jr.... Tony Stark / Iron Man
Guy Pearce... Aldrich Killian
Cobie Smulders... Maria Hill
Gwyneth Paltrow... Pepper Potts
Paul Bettany... Jarvis (voice)
Rebecca Hall... Maya Hansen
Ben Kingsley... The Mandarin
Jon Favreau... Happy Hogan

Rocky Carroll... Sam Wilson / the Falcon

 

[Markyboy00]

Also..William Sadler... Sal Kennedy
Don Cheadle... James Rhodes / War Machine
William Hurt... General Thaddeus Ross / Red Hulk
James Badge Dale... Eric Savin
Bridger Zadina... Richie
Ashley Hamilton... Jack Taggert

 

[marcvader]

If its IMDB forget about it.

 

[Markyboy00]

Whys that?? I just looked, it is IMDB..

 

[spideyboy_1111]

you can change and add anyone you want on IMDB, according to IMDB at the time, Aunt May was to play carnage in spider-man 2...

 

[cherokeesam]

Yeah, that IMDB cast list is full of b.s. As usual. About the only thing they got right is RDJ will play Tony Stark....everything else there is questionable.

 

[Hawkingbird]

I think the casting's perfect!

 

[R_Hythlodeus]

Downey Jr.? Are they serious? We as fans know that only Tom Cruise could do the character justice. This whole MCU thing is doomed from the start!

 

[Jarael]

So, here's what we know:

2013:
Iron Man 3, May 3
Thor 2, November 15

2014:
Captain America 2, April 4

2015:
Avengers 2

So, what else might be in store for us in 2014 & 2015? My money is on Guardians of the Galaxy, because Latino Review has been proven correct several times in the past. But my hopes are set on Ant-Man and Black Panther. Mostly because IMO Hank, Jan, and T'Challa are what we need added in Avengers 2. And because they're the most deserving IMO.

The problem with this lies in fitting all three of those (GotG, Ant-Man, and BP) into 2014 & 2015 considering those years each already have one film in place. If, and that's a BIG IF, Marvel is willing to put three movies in 2014, and have a spring movie before Avengers 2's huge summer release, it could work.