Far From Home MCU Spider-Man is very, very inaccurate

[I Am The Knight]

I agree with most of your post, Aziz. But I think the main point about Flash in this version is that he's not a bully...and by that he's supposed to be an obstacle for Peter. He's nothing more than a nuisance.



I wouldn't say the rubble scene in Homecoming sucked but I certainly felt it was lacking compared to the comic version.

In Homecoming it felt more like hey, here's a cool comic reference. It lacked the importance and the build up from the original story.

The comic version wasn't just about lifting a heavy object...it came at the heel of the brilliant Master Planner Saga. Spider-Man was at the point of complete exhaustion having beat down a bevy of thugs and foiling Ock's plan. Yes, the strength of Ben and possibly losing May is what propels him to find the inner strength to lift the seemingly impossibly weight. And it doesn't always have to be about Ben or May as Spectacular Spider-Man proved. The life of Gwen was literally right in front of him but the idea that Spider-Man does not give up even at the most bleak of moments is still at the core in that adaptation.

Like you say, in Homecoming that weight or purpose wasn't there. The stakes weren't there. The buildup wasn't there. It was just a cool reference of a moment.

Imo, the Washington monument scene dwarfed the rubble scene by miles.

The rubble scene was one of the strongest parts of Homecoming. It was mostly about Peter's own life being at stake and he gets himself up through sheer force of will. The scene does leave a bad taste in my mouth because of the Tony Stark voiceover, but besides that, it works for me.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

The rubble scene was one of the strongest parts of Homecoming. It was mostly about Peter's own life being at stake and he gets himself up through sheer force of will. The scene does leave a bad taste in my mouth because of the Tony Stark voiceover, but besides that, it works for me.

I don't hate the scene nor do I think it sucked. It worked within the movie for what it was. However when I compare it to the comic version from which that scene was inspired or even the adaptation of that scene in TSSM, it is not nearly as good.

And I stand by my opinion that the Washington monument scene was much better.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

The rubble scene was one of the strongest parts of Homecoming. It was mostly about Peter's own life being at stake and he gets himself up through sheer force of will. The scene does leave a bad taste in my mouth because of the Tony Stark voiceover, but besides that, it works for me.

The message of this scene is a bit confused. Tony's voice over distinctly frames the scene as following: Peter gets out of the rubble through sheer force of will, because he gains the confidence in himself without Tony's suit and as an independent hero. My problem with this is that I don't buy he would be so unaware of the wealth of power which he already possesses that he would assign so much of his value as a hero to Tony's suit.

So that combined with Peter's behavior makes scene just looks like he forgets in panic that he has superpowers, and then when he calms down he remembers "wait, I have superpowers". not very dramatically compelling. Obviously he is gonna try his very hardest to lift the rubble, it's just common sense.

The dramatic tension of the source-material scene in essence comes from Spiderman considering "why struggle? life never gets easier so maybe giving up will finally bring me peace." Maybe he doesn't even care to break free and fight anymore. That's a much much more interesting struggle. And the emotional surge of still deciding to do the right thing despite everything he's been through, that's truly profound.

 

[CaptainWagner]

Things may change or improve with FFH but in Homecoming I didn't feel a struggle. There wasn't any of the 'Parker Luck.' The burden of being a hero vs his alter ego.

I mean, he did wind up losing his top spot on the Quiz Bowl team and ditching the girl he was in love with at prom.

 

[Infinity9999x]

I mean, he did wind up losing his top spot on the Quiz Bowl team and ditching the girl he was in love with at prom.

And by getting the girl's dad arrested, ensured that the girl he was in love with had to enter witness protection and leave the state.
So...yeah, definitely not a "no problems here!" Resolution for him.

 

[UltimateWebhead]

I mean, he did wind up losing his top spot on the Quiz Bowl team and ditching the girl he was in love with at prom.

He lost his top spot? I don't remember that. From what I remember, Peter decides not to join the team to Washington because he's got the Stark Internship. Then he jumps on the bus at the last second. They welcome him with open arms and even bump Flash down to alternate cause Peter is so important to the team. Then, Pete ditches them again to chase the Vulture. So without him there they lose the competition. Oh wait...no, they won without him. Peter's so vital to the team that they won the entire competition without him there. Imo, having the team lose without Peter would have made for a better part of the story. That definitely would have created more of a sense of burden or struggle with him being Spider-Man. Cause now the team would be holding Peter accountable and probably be upset with him. But no. In the end of the movie, even though Peter has ditched them twice, he's still shown to be on the team during their little post victory meeting. Another way they could have put more of a burden on him...have Peter actually lose his spot on the team. But that didn't happen as far as I recall.

I did enjoy the twist with Adrian being Liz' father. That worked out really well and showed how being Spider-Man affects his life as Peter. The choices he makes have a consequence towards his alter ego even when he's doing what he knows is the right thing.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

And by getting the girl's dad arrested, ensured that the girl he was in love with had to enter witness protection and leave the state.
So...yeah, definitely not a "no problems here!" Resolution for him.

Whatever that thing with Liza is, it feel less like love and more like a passing crush, something much less significant than Peter's love relationship with Betty in the Stan Lee era of comics.

 

[shinlyle]

I don't hate the scene nor do I think it sucked. It worked within the movie for what it was. However when I compare it to the comic version from which that scene was inspired or even the adaptation of that scene in TSSM, it is not nearly as good.

And I stand by my opinion that the Washington monument scene was much better.

Well, they all point out the one thing that kept Homecoming from being my favorite live action Spidey film: Action.

None of the in-action Spider-Man stuff was very strong. There was no "Doc Ock Train Fight" equivalent, nor has there been since Spider-Man 2. A real shame, too. Honestly, I think Spider-Man's action scenes in Civil War and Infinity War were about 10 times better than anything we saw in Homecoming!
In Civil War, he takes down Giant Man, humiliates Winter Solider AND Falcon simultaneously, and even holds his own against Cap with ZERO experience. It was easy to see why Tony wanted him there.
In Infinity War, he holds off Cull Obsidian single-handedly, saving Iron Man in the process, and comes up with a strategy to defeat Ebony Maw, AND he even helps out against Thanos while saving the Guardians who were knocked unconscious.
In Homecoming, the Vulture fight was okay, but it was a very confined fight scene once they arrived at Coney Island. Peter just basically got stomped over and over again, then saved Vulture when his wings exploded.
For Far From Home, they need to take a BIG cue from Spectacular Spider-Man, and have him really utilize his Spider-Sense. That scene in SSM where Spidey blindfolds himself and relies on reflexes and Spider-Sense was just amazing, and I would love to see him hone and tune that in this film.

 

[SpeterMan3]

Well I only mostly know the "typical TV bully" scenario in real life. First off, "online" didn't even exist at the time. And then while there was verbal bullying, it was always accompanied by physical violence and abuse. And the teachers would just dismiss it as horseplay and boys having fun - not seeing it as anything serious at all or worthy of suspension or expulsion.

But then some of the teachers were physically violent and even overtly racist and encouraged some of the verbal and physical behaviour from pupils. They would never get away with this sort of thing today.

Yeah, things seem to have changed a notable amount. I can only take my experience with a grain of salt, since I'm only one person, but I can't think of many instances of typical bullying. And the closest example I can think of happened 1) in middle school, 2) largely online, and 3) with a kid that ended up being friends with all the other kids. I actually stood up for him and his parents took us to see Spider-Man 3 in IMAX as a thank you. Spider-Man's always involved somehow... haha

 

[TheWallCrawler]

this might sound kind of outlandish and maybe it's too late to implement but hear me out:
I think it would've been fun if he had used the voice changer regularly in Homecoming. Not that it distorts the voice like "interrogation mode", but rather makes him sound like an adult male (preferably CDB from 90's show voicing). It's a Stark suit after all and at this point it's pretty reasonable within the parameters of MCU. My reasons are as follows

- This Spider-man is the most protective of his civil identity. Tom Holland has a very recognizable voice, and if you're a "friendly neighborhood hero" who's personable with people you might also see in your civil life, maybe disguising your voice is a good idea.
- Peter wants to be called Spider-man, not Spider-boy. If being in the Stark suit is living his fantasy, then having a nice masculine voice would complete that theme
- Although CDB is older, I think he would've been a great choice because Peter wants to sound mature. Also CDB's line delivery as Spidey is really charming
- jokes to be had. you can have a scene where he samples voices trying to pick one and he does impressions of other MCU guys. and maybe a scene where the thing glitches and he gets voice cracks as a cheeky nod to puberty

I would still like for this to be added, or for it to already be in Far From Home but that's a slim chance. They seemed to go with the idea already that others presume Spider-man is more like 30 or what ever. This would really sell it

 

[ironwez20]

He changes his voice to make it deep already . He told flash to give him his car in a deep raspy voice

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I still say this is a better adaption of what the rubble scene is for than Homecoming straight up using the visuals.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

He changes his voice to make it deep already . He told flash to give him his car in a deep raspy voice

Tbh, I forgot this scene. Anyway, I dont like Spiderman doing a Batman voice. If he is to mask his voice again, I would prefer if he sounded more like a basic adult male. Doesnt have to be CDB. I can already picture Karen asking "would you like to engage the voice maturation mode?" And Peter can be slightly skeptic and crack wise. Karen says "It can disguise your voice without scaring the civilians. You can even keep your wonderful sense of humor intact"

My point is that if Spiderman is this man of the people, who sometimes gets personable with civilians like in the comics, its good to disguise your voice but a Batman distorted sound is too much.

 

[KRYPTON INC.]

I still say this is a better adaption of what the rubble scene is for than Homecoming straight up using the visuals.

See for me... The ending of S-M1 will always be one the things I hold against it. It's rushed, awkward, and the drama feels unearned. "Don't tell Harry."

SIGH...

 

[Spider-Aziz]

See for me... The ending of S-M1 will always be one the things I hold against it. It's rushed, awkward, and the drama feels unearned. "Don't tell Harry."

SIGH...

He was keeping it a secret from his son, so it seems pretty fine by me to see Norman tell the surviving friend of his son to keep the secret.
Grovelling before his mask while listening to the alternate personality that is not how he originally thinks though.... I will hold that against the movie.
*Norman on his knees: "Tell me how to do it, TELL ME HOW TO KILL HIM"
**Goblin mask: "The heart Norman. First we ATTACK HIS HEART"

 

[ironwez20]

No Spider-Man ending has come close to those first two final swings. Damn I miss those final swing endings. The first one was so powerful

 

[Nardz937]

Spider-Man 2 is my favorite ending in the franchise (and probably out of all CBM's), as he swings off and it closes on that shot of MJ's face. Just perfect.

Although, Spider-Man 1's is probably the most iconic with the shot of Spidey on the flagpole swinging into the camera.

 

[SpeterMan3]

Yeah, the (honestly small amount of) bullying I saw in school was nothing like TV or movies. It was almost all verbal, and probably largely online. I don't remember ever seeing a typical "TV bully" scenario.

I recorded a video about the same topic as this thread, actually. Coming out Friday. I like this version of Spider-Man, but I can't act like many of the complaints aren't valid.

Here it is, if anyone cares. You don't have to... haha

 

[TheWallCrawler]

good points all around

I give Homecoming credit for having genuinely funny bits. Russos are good at the drama and action, but their sense of humor is pretty meh. I think introducing Spider-man in Civil War was the biggest mistake. Tony Stark is preaching responsibility yet he recruits a minor for a very serious politically charged fight against Captain America and his superhero allies + an alleged terrorist. And then he suddenly decides "you shouldn't do anything dangerous, just be a friendly neighborhood Spider-man". Like, what? To me it would make sense if Tony went to meet Peter after the events of Civil War (post-credits scene), and then proposes mentorship. But Feige just couldn't wait to play with his new action figure

like try watching this scene. It starts with a dumb joke about running into people at airport, then it changes into heavy drama, and when Spiderman is introduced it goes back into funny fun fun, only to snap into the serious tone again right after Spiderman quits talking.

 

[SpeterMan3]

Thanks! I actually like how tonally inconsistent that scene is, just because there's no way that everyone involved would be as invested as the rest.

 

[TheVileOne]

Spider-Man was clearly shoehorned into Civil War, but what can you do? Marvel had to make a play to get Spidey into their sandbox.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Spider-Man was clearly shoehorned into Civil War, but what can you do? Marvel had to make a play to get Spidey into their sandbox.

That might not be totally true. Didn't they say they wrote him into that script originally?

 

[TheWallCrawler]

Spider-Man was clearly shoehorned into Civil War, but what can you do? Marvel had to make a play to get Spidey into their sandbox.

We cant be sure if Marvel needed to use him in the movie to close the deal, could simply be that they were itching to use Spider-man. Simply adding a post-credits stinger, and having RDJ on Homecoming's marketing could've been enough to meet Sony's quota. Plus I think a post-credits scene reveal would've been much more powerful.

Imagine if the deal and role casting was never confirmed before Civil War, and people went in unassumingly. Then the movie ends, credits roll. You wait for that post-credits scene because we always do, even though they haven't been actually interesting after Iron-Man and The Incredible Hulk. Then the scene starts. It doesn't confirm so immediately, but you are watching the new Peter Parker. Audience gets excited because it dawns on them what's going on, "it's really happening!"
Tony surprises Peter, scene plays similarly except in the end Tony reveals the Spider-man suit, and it's a straight-up moviefied version of the comicbook suit

black screen. "Spider-man will return"

 

[Spidey_62]

That might not be totally true. Didn't they say they wrote him into that script originally?

I believe that was the case, the preferred version they wanted to run with always sought to include Spidey. The backup would have omitted him and just beefed up BP's role.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I believe that was the case, the preferred version they wanted to run with always sought to include Spidey. The backup would have omitted him and just beefed up BP's role.

Since I really don't like how Spider-Man is portrayed in Homecoming, I really wish Black Panther had more screen time in Civil War.

I dislike the Homecoming version of the character almost as much as I dislike him in the Amazing Spider-Man franchise (Beenox games, I still like him in the movies) because problems are caused by him when he knows what he should avoid doing.