Michael Keaton: Overrated?

[wootbaby]

Outside of some hardcore Batman fans, I don't know that Keaton's role was that highly rated.

You just aren't familiar with Michael Keaton. The upcry was more that Keaton got the role in the first place. Keaton was known for being a comedic actor and casting him was a deliberate cast-against-type on the part of Tim Burton because he wanted the character to be the star, not some big action star in the role.

Keaton is actually a very fine actor, he was well regarded in the 80s. Watch some of his movies like Mr Mom he has a presence and a distinct persona in each of his movies.

As I posted in the other thread Keaton in Batman is very similar to Downey in Iron Man. If you're familiar with each man's work you'll understand what I mean. They bring a lot of their own persona into the role. Keaton's character in Batman is a combination of the "Michael Keaton" role from his other movies + Batman. The humanity with which Keaton plays Batman that someone referenced upstream is all Michael Keaton being Michael Keatong and I think that's why the character feels so real. Bale was a great actor but he played the role with more distance... which actually makes sense in the context of Nolan's movies... he's less of an accessible character.. but Keaton's humanity is why people still connect to his portrayal after 20 years.

A way you could look at it is that Keaton's Batman is an "older" Batman. He's still determined and his wounds run deep he's but not as angry or conflicted as Bale's Batman, who is still starting out. You get the sense that Keaton's Batman is alienated but he's not disfunctional... he's come to terms with being Batman and what that means to his life.

Those 2 performances are actually quite striking to compare. They give very different feels to being Batman, but at the same time both are very true to "Batman" as an icon. You rarely get to see 2 such clear examples of 2 good actors approaching a subject in different ways. It's something striking and the kind of deep deconstruction of the art of acting you wouldn't expect from a superhero movie

 

[Mace Dolex]

Each actor as Batman has brought something new to the table, someone mentioned on the first page that Adam West played the perfect Bruce Wayne, he was charming, debonair, handsome, tall and actually looked like a millionaire playboy it was him spouting the campy dialogue as Batman that made the series silly.

Michael Keaton while not the greatest interpretation of Batman/Bruce gave his 100% with the script he was given, but his age was starting to show in Batman Returns.

Val Kilmer brought in some of Bruce's deeper tragedies with what little he was given.

George Clooney played Bruce as your friendly uncle and guy you would have a beer with.

Christian Bale despite being the youngest of all actors when playing Batman did aquit himself quite nicely by showing Bruce still new to the crime fighting game.

 

[IBRAH08]

Ok, but I just have to say I am sorry that you feel that way about the Bale Batman in BB.
I love the scenes with his Batman, that first conversation with Gordon when he is in full costume, felt like it was the books made flesh; the interrogation of Flass, the first time we have seen Batman be absolutely totally intimidating, Keaton's 'I'm Batman' was cool, but this was more of the real deal, the kind of thing I read in the comics, but only when i saw this scene could i see how this might play out in the flesh, it was phenomenal. The batman under the fear gas, too good.
All the interactions with Gordon are great, i just like the 2nd one best because it is closest to the usual conferences.
Even just little things with Bm talking about the fear gas to Gordon, just felt real, the way the stuff in the books would play out, straight and to the point, with no feeling of 'this is stupid' with a guy in a bat-mask talking about fear toxin etc.
Man, I wish you felt the same way, because as a long term fan like yourself, I felt i finally got the Batman i had been waiting on appearing in a movie. Same goes with TDK, but those first moments in BB, great, I just wanted more of them.

The interrogation scene with flass was so amazing. I mean THAT was Batman. I must say There was a time when I would have said YES YES YES Keaton is overrated and he still is overrated by some people there are a few people who think he is God incarnate. HOWEVER, I must say that Keaton did amazing things especially with his small size. I have to give him credit, he did a great job.

 

[IBRAH08]

Dude, don't worry about it, I'm sure Bathead is not upset. I posted a similar thought over on the spider-man boards about the cloth BM outfit and a couple of people, bathead included iirc, interjected with the same opinion.

For me, I don't care how good a cloth outfit looks, and i don't care how good Batman's ninja skills are, I prefer knowing that a character who is constantly surrounded by armed crooks has some armour in there. It makes me believe the stories are more realistic, and it not just by magic that he is not stabbed or shot in a way that would kill him, because he would be vulnerable at some points to that, no matter how skilled.
I'm glad they armoured him up in the movies, and brought this to the comics to an extent now too. I am fine with all my old BM comics having him in a cloth outfit, but I think they would have been more plausible and believable to have him a little armoured.
Same as with the ropes, giving him little jet propulsion cables etc, rather than a rope with a batarang at the end, feels much better for the character, after all he is not superpowered like Spider-man.

The movies improved aspects of the character in this regard. Fake muscle outfit, no, but a little armour, yes.

sorry, offtopic, but, ah well.

Well, Batman actually wears armor under his costume and incorporates armor into the suit in the comics. I really debated with myself if we should start this debate. I recommend you check out some of the things designed in the BB3 Batsuit thread.

 

[IBRAH08]

True, I don't have proof. It is just my opinion, but as my first words were 'I don't think' I set up that those were just my thoughts. Though I don't see how a big budget would really change it. The visual from the comics is fairly simple. It may not be cloth, but it certainly look like it from my viewpoint. It may not be done in the Adam West style, but it would be hard to imagine an effective live action version of it, at least for me.
As for a more proper thread for discussing it, I didn't mean to make a discussion out of it really. It was more of an offhand comment while I was stating my more on topic opinion of Keaton being my favorite Bat actor yet (just rewatched Batman 89, Keaton really gives something different to his Batman take).
Sorry if I upset you.

You should check out the BB3 Batsuit forum, you'd be very surprised.

 

[El Payaso]

Although a more proper thread for discussing this would be the BB3 batsuit discusssion thread, I have to say that you are just plain mistaken. First off , you have no proof that a proper comics styled suit wouldn't work ,as it hasn't been done yet in a high budget movie with a well financed costume designer and department, it wouldn't be "basically cloth with dark undies" and it would be NOTHING like Adam West's costume, that costume is irrelevant as to what could be done by a proper costume dept.

They really tried in Batman dead End and it didn't come next to a good thing.

 

[david icke]

Outside of some hardcore Batman fans, I don't know that Keaton's role was that highly rated.

You just aren't familiar with Michael Keaton. The upcry was more that Keaton got the role in the first place. Keaton was known for being a comedic actor and casting him was a deliberate cast-against-type on the part of Tim Burton because he wanted the character to be the star, not some big action star in the role.

Keaton is actually a very fine actor, he was well regarded in the 80s. Watch some of his movies like Mr Mom he has a presence and a distinct persona in each of his movies.

As I posted in the other thread Keaton in Batman is very similar to Downey in Iron Man. If you're familiar with each man's work you'll understand what I mean. They bring a lot of their own persona into the role. Keaton's character in Batman is a combination of the "Michael Keaton" role from his other movies + Batman. The humanity with which Keaton plays Batman that someone referenced upstream is all Michael Keaton being Michael Keatong and I think that's why the character feels so real. Bale was a great actor but he played the role with more distance... which actually makes sense in the context of Nolan's movies... he's less of an accessible character.. but Keaton's humanity is why people still connect to his portrayal after 20 years.

A way you could look at it is that Keaton's Batman is an "older" Batman. He's still determined and his wounds run deep he's but not as angry or conflicted as Bale's Batman, who is still starting out. You get the sense that Keaton's Batman is alienated but he's not disfunctional... he's come to terms with being Batman and what that means to his life.

Those 2 performances are actually quite striking to compare. They give very different feels to being Batman, but at the same time both are very true to "Batman" as an icon. You rarely get to see 2 such clear examples of 2 good actors approaching a subject in different ways. It's something striking and the kind of deep deconstruction of the art of acting you wouldn't expect from a superhero movie

I'm just not familiar with Micheal Keaton? lol, what are you talking about? That little history lesson you just gave was elementary stuff.
You sound like one of the 'hardcore' fans I was talking about, what I meant was it was not a very highly rated role in the 'real world'. Certainly nowhere near as much as Chris Reeve as Superman, as I said in the rest of my post.
He's only rated so highly amongst hardcore fans of the Burton movies.

 

[El Payaso]

You sound like one of the 'hardcore' fans I was talking about, what I meant was it was not a very highly rated role in the 'real world'. Certainly nowhere near as much as Chris Reeve as Superman, as I said in the rest of my post.
He's only rated so highly amongst hardcore fans of the Burton movies.

The response to Keaton's Batman was so positive that they offered whatever he wanted to reprise the role. And they did it again after Batman Returns. Could that have happened only because of a bunch of hardcore fans?

 

[Cain]

.
He's only rated so highly amongst hardcore fans of the Burton movies.

Generalizations like this don't help your arguments either.

I'm a hardcore Batman fan and particularly of the comic books a lot more than anything else never the movies. Matter of fact the Batman movies are the LAST thing I care about regarding the character, hell I prefer Batman: The Brave & The Bold over every single Batman movie ever made. Yet I rate Keaton highly because he did a great job with the material he was working with. He was believable and involving with his performance and millions of others who are far from hardcore fans of the Burton Batman movies have agreed with that as well.

As already said Keaton was offered $30 million for Batman Forever because he had cemented himself as Batman in pop culture. Yes true that would've happened to any actor that played Batman. However had Keaton not been highly rated by the general public they wouldn't have been so concerned about a recasting in the first place, they would've just welcomed it. I remember many saying that Kilmer seemed so wooden and ungenuine compared to Keaton even though he was more physically suited for the role.

 

[david icke]

As I said in my original post, there was no great seismic shift in pop culture that was reflected and debated on in mainsteam media when Keaton was replaced by Kilmer.
The first Batman movie made a lot of money but was not truly loved or taken to heart by the general public, this was reflected in the lower takings for BR. Once the hype was over and folk saw what level of entertainment these Batman movies actually offered, they did not come back in such droves.
When the third movie had a change of personell, no-one really gave a hoot outside of the hardcore fans of Batman.
Compare it to the outcry that would have happened if Chris Reeve had bailked at the prospect of Superman III and passed on the role, it would have been all over the mainsteam media.

I stand by what I said.

and what I said has got *nothing* to do with the actor's performance, or what I personally think of it, what I was actually saying was that it was never a highly rated performance to the level where it made a significant impact on mainsteam culture.

edit: and as for the 30mil offer, that could reflect the fact they were not so confident of casting the right guy for this kind of role, which could go wrong so easily and seem ridiculous. So they preferred to stick with the tried and tested guy folk could take seriously in a Bat-outfit. That doesn't necesarily reflect a *great* performance that had made a huge impact on mainstream culture, just that the studio had cold feet when it came to a re-cast. Directors are easier to replace than actors, especially with a role that could so easily become ridiculous in the wrong hands.
That's how I feel about it anyway. edit: As in, that's how I feel about the big pay offer to do BF, as of course, their motives are up for speculation, the price tag doesn't prove anything either way.

 

[Marx]

For me, Michael Keaton is the gold standard for Batman.

 

[Ponyboy]

If anything, Keaton's vastly underrated due to his physical appearance. His actual performance and acting ability are superb.

This.

I still think Keaton is the more well-rounded actor of the batman lot.

Keaton has been my favorite Batman actor to date. Very human, very intense, just perfect onscreen.

This too.

 

[OutRiddled]

Why is everything "overrated" these days?

Michael Keaton is definitely my favourite actor out of them all. Actually, it's a tie between Keaton and Adam West.

 

[Mister Meddle]

To me Michael Keaton is, and always will be, the definitive Batman. He is FAR from over rated.

 

[Mister Meddle]

 

[Marx]

 

[Fudgie]

Keaton was all wrong for Batman, but the well-designed costume helped him to give a decent performance. Keaton in a closer-to-the-comics costume would've been the funniest thing ever.

In the end all Keaton did was making strange moves with his eyes and whispering some words.

Michael Keaton is so overrated in my opinion. He's too small. His voice was edited... Pretty much the good things i can sum up was his evil smile he did as Batman, that was definatly badass.

The guy's a good actor, but i disagree with Tim Burton's vision of "no bug musculer guy needs to hide his identity" it's like casting a woman, child or a dog as Batman and saying: well you would never believe they would be Batman, so ofcourse it works.

Agreed.

 

[El Payaso]

Keaton was all wrong for Batman, but the well-designed costume helped him to give a decent performance. Keaton in a closer-to-the-comics costume would've been the funniest thing ever.

Funny thing that they got the tall and muscular Bale and... gave him another black armoured suit just like they did with Keaton.

In the end all Keaton did was making strange moves with his eyes and whispering some words.

Yeah, and Marlon Brando just read his lines from the wall in The Godfather.

Michael Keaton is so overrated in my opinion. He's too small. His voice was edited... Pretty much the good things i can sum up was his evil smile he did as Batman, that was definatly badass.

Sorry, his voice was edited? Aren't you thinking of the beauty they did with Bale's bat-voice?

The guy's a good actor, but i disagree with Tim Burton's vision of "no bug musculer guy needs to hide his identity" it's like casting a woman, child or a dog as Batman and saying: well you would never believe they would be Batman, so ofcourse it works.

If you're doing Bat-woman or Bat-dog, then yes. For Batman you use a man.

 

[Mister Meddle]

Sorry, his voice was edited? Aren't you thinking of the beauty they did with Bale's bat-voice?

You beat me to it, Payaso.

I can't believe people are still complaining about Keaton's size. Obviously it's only the minority but still.

 

[GothamAlleys]

You beat me to it, Payaso.

I can't believe people are still complaining about Keaton's size. Obviously it's only the minority but still.

Especially when hes just 2 inches shorter than Bale and of normal, average man physique. It wouldnt matter anyway, youre talking about a guy whose in a suit, you can imagine hes muscular like Lee in there anyway

 

[Marx]

I will gladly take Keaton's whispering batvoice over Bale's over-the-top batgrowl that is completely inaudible at times. Just saying...

 

[GothamAlleys]

Also wanted to add how ridiculous it is that people look at waist size instead of charisma and electricity of actor's performance. Wow.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

As far as I know Keatons voice was never altered in any way, shape or form.

 

[Mister Meddle]

I have no idea where that came from. Apparently he was trying too hard to bash Keaton's Batman. Hopefully we all learned a lesson from this.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

Ya like how some peoples arguments have no merit.