MICHAEL KEATON RETURNS (or at least in discussion) AS BATMAN

[Breogan]

This looks great. So this movie is set in the Burton Batman universe? If so then I wonder why Gotham doesn't look the same? It feels odd to have Michael Keaton Batman in a normal looking city.

I almost wish DarKeaton Returns was detached from the Flash movie, and developed as it's own thing.
Somehow extricate his scenes as their own stand alone mini-episode, released similar to a Marvel/D+ streaming "Special Edition" featurette,
Not just drop Keaton into another U aesthetic, but made to more genuinely continue Burton's Batman legacy, and whole visual aesthetic.

Could have continued ....

Last Burton scene ^
Further it's typical DisMar snagged Pfeiffer and puts her at the heart of their action, while WB as usual completely asleep at the wheel (or busy reinventing their wheel... would have made a great reunion.

 

[BatLobster]

Oof...idk guys... I've been so anxious to get our first real look at Keaton in this movie and I'm really not sure how I feel about it now that I've seen it. Of course hearing him say "Yeah... I'm Batman" brings a smile to my face but with him looking straight into the camera in closeup it just felt weird and goofy. Reminded me more or Kilmer's smile than anything from the Burton films. The mystique of the Burtonverse is just nowhere to be found so far in any of the scenes with Batman. And CGI Keaton will take some getting used to.

I guess I was really just hoping his moments were going to be handled with a bit more care to not make it feel like we just dropped Keaton's Batman into a schlocky modern blockbuster but so far that's exactly what it feels like. I hope I'll just get used to it and enjoy but something about it just felt kinda hollow in the trailer and it pains me to admit it.

 

[antsman41]

 

[J.Drangal]

Oof...idk guys... I've been so anxious to get our first real look at Keaton in this movie and I'm really not sure how I feel about it now that I've seen it. Of course hearing him say "Yeah... I'm Batman" brings a smile to my face but with him looking straight into the camera in closeup it just felt weird and goofy. Reminded me more or Kilmer's smile than anything from the Burton films. The mystique of the Burtonverse is just nowhere to be found so far in any of the scenes with Batman. And CGI Keaton will take some getting used to.

I guess I was really just hoping his moments were going to be handled with a bit more care to not make it feel like we just dropped Keaton's Batman into a schlocky modern blockbuster but so far that's exactly what it feels like. I hope I'll just get used to it and enjoy but something about it just felt kinda hollow in the trailer and it pains me to admit it.

Yeah, Keaton's Batman actually smiles quite often, but in an intimidating way. In this shot, while he looks really good, there's a bit of awkwardness and it feels more like Keaton making a meta statement than Batman actually introducing himself. I knew this sort of thing would be inevitable, so... I just have to accept it.

I also completely agree with the rest of your post. As I said in another post, it looks like Muschietti wasn't interested in the challenge of mixing universes, and it doesn't seem like anything is left of the expressionist vibe of Burton's film, which I think was a fundamental part of it. Everything is bathed in this very artificial modern digital look. And without talking about CGI quality, those big comic-booky jump for Keaton just feels wrong...

Again, they made those choices and it is what it is...
But what would be really unforgivable to me, is that even eventually accepting that modern look direction (and its excesses), right now, it's still looks very poor in some areo even by those standards. They have no excuses on this. I really hope these last few months clean up some of these visuals...

Maybe it's just me, but this shot really sums up fan service in all its shallowness.

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I'm in a weird position where the only aspect of the Burton movies I particularly care about is Keaton himself so I'm not too bothered by the lack of Burton aesthetics, which frankly I'm not a huge fan of to begin with. 89 looks great but once Returns slides into the standardized Burton LookTM it ceases to do much for me.

Not that the rather standard look of the movie is an improvement of any kind, mind you, and I don't really love him moving like Batfleck in action scenes.

 

[antsman41]

I just don't get the retconning of Keaton having previous suits. Clearly '89 was his rough draft/first suit.

And, he perfected it with Returns...

 

[SwordOfMorning]

I just don't get the retconning of Keaton having previous suits. Clearly '89 was his rough draft/first suit.

And, he perfected it with Returns...

I suppose one could assume that these were from various points in his later career?

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I just don't get the retconning of Keaton having previous suits. Clearly '89 was his rough draft/first suit.

And, he perfected it with Returns...

Maybe they were prototypes that he never actually used.

 

[antsman41]

Maybe they were prototypes that he never actually used.

...then why did it take him 30 years to 'hang them up' in the cave.

Hell, Burton didn't even flaunt the '89 suit off in Returns. Batman threw that thing down into the caverns - lol.

I'm just being a smart@$$, while I like that we see the 89/Returns suits... the two left suits seem out of place. While the two right suits seem like logical additions, while the 'Flash' suit is trash and an obvious downgrade to Ringwood/Vogt's suits.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

...then why did it take him 30 years to 'hang them up' in the cave.

Hell, Burton didn't even flaunt the '89 suit off in Returns. Batman threw that thing down into the caverns - lol.

I'm just being a smart@$$, while I like that we see the 89/Returns suits... the two left suits seem out of place. While the two right suits seem like logical additions, while the 'Flash' suit is trash and an obvious downgrade to Ringwood's suits.

Maybe after he hung up his cape he arranged that display as something to look back on, that 'crazy' time when he decided to become a vigilante, the steps he went through to get there, from drawing board to how he eventually began, and how he ended.

 

[BatLobster]

I suppose one could assume that these were from various points in his later career?

Yeah, I mean we haven't seen what's been up to in 30 years. I'm willing to let that one go even if it's a bit goofy/excessive. Of course I had some some Keaton-Batman variant suit action figures as a kid, so I can allow it on that level lol.

Yeah, Keaton's Batman actually smiles quite often, but in an intimidating way. In this shot, while he looks really good, there's a bit of awkwardness and it feels more like Keaton making a meta statement than Batman actually introducing himself. I knew this sort of thing would be inevitable, so... I just have to accept it.

I'm in totally the same boat. For me, I think the ultimate bit of fanservice would've been making it feel authentic, like we actually stepped back into Burton's world and we're really meeting that same version of Batman. That to me would actually be more fun than doing the whole meta, wink-wink schtick. But what they're doing is also probably the safest route to go in terms of just letting this be the over the top comic booky thing that it's going for. The GA probably won't care.

Of course I am still excited to see what Keaton is given to work with in the movie beyond the action beats and one-liners. Seeing his Bruce Wayne again should be great.

 

[Kane52630]

 

[J.Drangal]

Yeah, I mean we haven't seen what's been up to in 30 years. I'm willing to let that one go even if it's a bit goofy/excessive. Of course I had some some Keaton-Batman variant suit action figures as a kid, so I can allow it on that level lol.



I'm in totally the same boat. For me, I think the ultimate bit of fanservice would've been making it feel authentic, like we actually stepped back into Burton's world and we're really meeting that same version of Batman. That to me would actually be more fun than doing the whole meta, wink-wink schtick. But what they're doing is also probably the safest route to go in terms of just letting this be the over the top comic booky thing that it's going for. The GA probably won't care.

Of course I am still excited to see what Keaton is given to work with in the movie beyond the action beats and one-liners. Seeing his Bruce Wayne again should be great.

It's really an interesting topic and one that seems more covered (and much criticized) here than in America (but maybe I'm missing out).
We are in the "metatext" era. All that matters to the audience in these films are the things that are outside of them.
Marvel (yeah I know...) is typical of this trend: it seems that no one is really interested in the actual story and that what generates discussion is picking up on references, speculating on who's going to make a surprise appearance, played by whom, etc... The result is movies, which may be entertaining at the time (I guess?) but by definition remain very hollow at heart.

Like you, I'd just like to see more effort to bring back these worlds to life on screen rather than having the movie tap me on the shoulder every 30 seconds for me to get whatever reference it throws at me... but that takes effort and I don't feel like that's the main philosophy of the moment in these blockbusters.

 

[Sawyer]

Granted, the “Yeah… I’m Batman” bit was a little too wink-wink, nudge-nudge for me, but… I think a lot of you are being very precious about this.

They’re not going to show his most impactful stuff in the first trailer and of course they’re going to do some kind of rousing “He’s back” moment after thirty years. It feels far too soon to think we have a real grasp of what his role will be in this film.

As for the variety of suits/the Batcave, this man’s entire house/city was altered over a three year period. Visual continuity has never been a thing with this Batman.

 

[antsman41]

View attachment 62213

...literally just fix these 3 things and this suit goes from a 4/10 to almost an 8/10.

Add the Yellow Belt and calm his chest/**** down a bit, and it's up there with Returns.

 

[BatLobster]

Granted, the “Yeah… I’m Batman” bit was a little too wink-wink, nudge-nudge for me, but… I think a lot of you are being very precious about this.

They’re not going to show his most impactful stuff in the first trailer and of course they’re going to do some kind of rousing “He’s back” moment after thirty years. It feels far too soon to think we have a real grasp of what his role will be in this film.

As for the variety of suits/the Batcave, this man’s entire house/city was altered over a three year period. Visual continuity has never been a thing with this Batman.

I really hope you're right in terms of how his overall role was handled, just didn't love him speaking it directly to the camera with a goofy grin as the first real taste of Keaton's Batman in 30 years. Not saying I didn't wanna hear him say the line, of course it's wonderful and nostalgic and his delivery is totally still there-- just the way it was presented here got a bit of an eyeroll from me.

Maybe I'm being precious but I just want to be able to suspend disbelief and invest in the story, and not get pulled out of the movie by constant meta winks and humor that falls flat (it's mostly Ezra that's the issue there for me). It's definitely too soon to say, but there was just a lot in the trailer overall that didn't work for me so it's given me some pause about the movie. But ultimately lowered expectations might be for the best. I really want to love this, especially with all the hype about how great it supposedly is.

 

[DocLathropBrown]

I really hope you're right in terms of how his overall role was handled, just didn't love him speaking it directly to the camera with a goofy grin as the first real taste of Keaton's Batman in 30 years. Not saying I didn't wanna hear him say the line, of course it's wonderful and nostalgic and his delivery is totally still there-- just the way it was presented here got a bit of an eyeroll from me.

Maybe I'm being precious but I just want to be able to suspend disbelief and invest in the story, and not get pulled out of the movie by constant meta winks and humor that falls flat (it's mostly Ezra that's the issue there for me). It's definitely too soon to say, but there was just a lot in the trailer overall that didn't work for me so it's given me some pause about the movie. But ultimately lowered expectations might be for the best. I really want to love this, especially with all the hype about how great it supposedly is.

I think what makes the catchphrase moment so goofy in the trailer is how long it takes to play out, along with him staring right into camera. Ultimately, they're drawing it out to let the general audience figure out who it is (since it's the first shot of him in the trailer). Hopefully it will be edited more tightly or use a different angle/take in the actual film so that it's less winky-wink, since we'll already have seen him as Bruce in the movie before that moment.

At least the moment has a reasonable place in the story, as the other Barry clearly doesn't know that Bruce Wayne was the legendary Gotham vigilante. That's a fair justification to give Keaton such a beat without it seeming entirely like fan-service.

 

[Gothamsknight]

I don't know, I kind of feel like the camp of it is a bit refreshing and a nice contrast to how dark and gloomy the reeves verse has started out being. Obviously I don't want it to be a full blown comedy, but I liked what I saw. Keatons delivery of that line made me smile, as did hearing the iconic theme again the CGI is the part that worries and some of the lighting, but I think overall it was a great trailer and it's probably the only live action cbm of 2023 I'm looking forward to.

 

[Breogan]

All those alternate Suits in the Armory feels like a throw back to the Keaton 90s Kenner era toy line.

I'm aware there has always been precedence in the comics - https://i.imgflip.com/7b0ol8.gif
Just 90s kenner mined it for everything it's worth.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

Hopefully it will be edited more tightly or use a different angle/take in the actual film so that it's less winky-wink, since we'll already have seen him as Bruce in the movie before that moment.

I think that is a distinct possibility.

 

[GREEN =w= DAY]

Seeing Keaton back as Batman and hearing Elfman’s theme got me a little teary eyed. My Batman is back

That shot with all the bat suits to me was a total homage to the 90s Dark Knight Collection toy line

I dunno what’s gonna happen to Keaton’s Batman at the end of this film, but I really hope James Gunn considers having him stick around and we get a proper send off with a Batman Beyond film bringing back Michelle Pfeiffer as well

 

[BatLobster]

I don't know, I kind of feel like the camp of it is a bit refreshing and a nice contrast to how dark and gloomy the reeves verse has started out being. Obviously I don't want it to be a full blown comedy, but I liked what I saw. Keatons delivery of that line made me smile, as did hearing the iconic theme again the CGI is the part that worries and some of the lighting, but I think overall it was a great trailer and it's probably the only live action cbm of 2023 I'm looking forward to.

I'm glad you liked it man, not trying to be a hater but just had to be honest about how I felt. I'm still really looking forward to the movie and hoping for the best. I'm sure Keaton himself is going to be great, it's just a question of how the movie presents him that has me a bit unsure right now. Seeing him in broad daylight was weird for me....it's possible it could be a "good weird" once I see the movie but I'm just unsure right now. I'm okay with it being a bit campy, but like you said I think the visual aspect of it is a bit iffy for me right now and that's my main issue.

I think you're in the majority as the reaction seems to be great and I think the movie has the potential to be a huge hit and win for DC. For Keaton's sake alone, I'm rooting for this movie regardless of how I end up feeling about it.

 

[Pennywise]

 

[Iceman]

Very fun to see Keaton back and he’s still got it. A shame it had to be in this film with Ezra dragging it through the mud but Keaton is still capable of pulling this off. Seems like his role will be significant.

 

[Pfeiffer-Pfan]

Zooming in on Keaton's Batman a little.

What worked:

• Keaton. Full stop. He'll bring it and he delivered each line wonderfully.
• The general Burton aesthetic of the manor, cave and vehicles has been kept for the most part. Lets not kid ourselves... if Burton did Batman 3, he probably would have reinvented the production design all over again. I can roll with it in this movie as well.
• The music never fails to be chill-inducing.
• The body portion of the suits feels like a great blend between RETURNS and FOREVER.

What I'm not crazy about YET:

• The cowl is OFF. The neck looks too bulky and the mouth opening too small. It looks like its smooshing Keaton's face and giving him a slight Bale from Batman Begins vibe. It looks better in profile. (oh and his nose is not covered)
• Keaton jumping around and flipping about feels strange. Part of his appeal in the Burton films was his stillness. Every move felt calculated and precise.
• Burton's Bat in daylight was bizarre, but fine if the situation calls for it.

So, my only real complaint is the darn cowl, more shots in motion and I might warm up to it.