Miller is overrated.

[Assassin]

Miller thinks all women are ****es

whats wrong with the truth?

 

[The Question]

I seriously doubt that Miller condones the actions of ancient Sparta. I imagine he just thought "Gee, the battle of Thermopylae would make a great book, but it might be a little easier to swallow if the Spartans where the good guys".

Though I doubt he said "gee".

I also think comparing Leonadis to Hitler is a gross overstatement.

 

[The Hero]

I don't know what to think about Miller. I mean, I love Ronin, and DKR, and Year One, and what he did with DD is just amazing. Hell, I even like 300 at times. But you have to admit that the guy has a prevailing theme in all his work, and it's not one that I particularly like. He's misogynistic, his male protagonist is almost always this one note "man's man", and his antagonists are always physically ugly. Honestly every story in Sin City is basically the same story played over and over again. I'm actually a HUGE fan of his art, but his writing bothers me and I often feel uncomfortable that I like any of it because it gets beyond a point that I can rationalize and honestly think Miller isn't getting some kind of sadistic glee out of crafting this continuing chauvinist fantasy.

What are you talking about? Frank Miller isn't misogynistic!

Damn it.

 

[The Question]

Am I the only person who's read this?

 

[Sandman138]

I think you are. It looks interesting though. If only because I can't imagine Miller writing it.

 

[The Question]

It's actually one of my favorite comics that he's done. Mainly because there's a fire breathing mech in the shape of a giant fast food mascott in it.



Oh, and it's well written and stuff.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

Am I the only person who's read this?

I think so--I did read Martha Washington Saves the World, though, which I'm pretty sure is a prequel/sequel to that. t:

 

[blud_knight]

I also think comparing Leonadis to Hitler is a gross overstatement.

One mans hero is another man's villan.

England saw Sir Francis Drake as a hero and a privateer.
Spain thought he was a pirate and a murderer.
its all about what side you are on.
I see Leonadis as a rebel and a hero. who fought for his people and his way of life against a forgien power.

 

[Cobblepot]

My fave FM was Ronin when I was a kid.
No one mentions it anymore.
The way he killed the Demon guy was Wicked.

Was that the panel that was swiped by Leifeld?

 

[The Question]

One mans hero is another man's villan.

England saw Sir Francis Drake as a hero and a privateer.
Spain thought he was a pirate and a murderer.
its all about what side you are on.
I see Leonadis as a rebel and a hero. who fought for his people and his way of life against a forgien power.

I still think comparing Leonidas to Hitler is a gross overstatement. Leonidas never did anything, good or bad, on the scale that Adolf did.

 

[blud_knight]

I still think comparing Leonidas to Hitler is a gross overstatement. Leonidas never did anything, good or bad, on the scale that Adolf did.

hmmmm. I guess i was being unclear.
I agree with you.
comparing leonidas to hitler is like comparing a grenade to an a bomb.

 

[Flash-er]

One mans hero is another man's villan.

England saw Sir Francis Drake as a hero and a privateer.
Spain thought he was a pirate and a murderer.
its all about what side you are on.
I see Leonadis as a rebel and a hero. who fought for his people and his way of life against a forgien power.

"history is written by the victors"

 

[larryfilmmaker]

One mans hero is another man's villan.


I see Leonadis as a rebel and a hero. who fought for his people and his way of life against a forgien power.

Hmm it's true history is changed by the victorious, but you're ignoring a pretty valid point here. Leonadis was king of a culture that threw babies off of cliffs. Strong, stubborn, and proud he was. Heroic he was not.

 

[The Question]

Hmm it's true history is changed by the victorious, but you're ignoring a pretty valid point here. Leonadis was king of a culture that threw babies off of cliffs. Strong, stubborn, and proud he was. Heroic he was not.

He sacrificed his life for the sake of his people. Seems fairly heroic to me. The subject of morality is quite a bit more complex than the way you're talking about it.

 

[yenaled]

The Spartan myth is complete bull**** btw the Spartans never ever wrote any of their own history - it was made up by people who hated them like Athenians and those who regarded them as iconic heroes like the Romans. Spartans never threw babies off cliffs or slaughtered slaves by the thousand. Hell the story of the 300 isn't even history as we think of it - it's a Greek story.

Don't read thinks like the 300 and mistake it as history, it's just a story based on a myth.

Leonidas took his people against an invading nation and died fighting them that's about all you can say with certainty talking about his personality or like you know the guy is a bit much.

Sorry I'm an Ancient Historian

Oh and p.s. I find Miller's newest stuff to be bad but he used to be great.

 

[Flash-er]

The Spartan myth is complete bull**** btw the Spartans never ever wrote any of their own history - it was made up by people who hated them like Athenians and those who regarded them as iconic heroes like the Romans. Spartans never threw babies off cliffs or slaughtered slaves by the thousand. Hell the story of the 300 isn't even history as we think of it - it's a Greek story.

Don't read thinks like the 300 and mistake it as history, it's just a story based on a myth.

Leonidas took his people against an invading nation and died fighting them that's about all you can say with certainty talking about his personality or like you know the guy is a bit much.

The history channel currently is running two different programs based on 300. One is mostly about the movie and the second has actual scholors talking about what has been written, what could be pieced together and what factual information there was (like the armor of the armies, the ships, etc.) Both are really good and I say watch them, but whoever takes the movie as fact has got some issues. (someone with swords for arms?)

 

[larryfilmmaker]

He sacrificed his life for the sake of his people. Seems fairly heroic to me. The subject of morality is quite a bit more complex than the way you're talking about it.

Morality can be complex, but 4 pages of debate won't justify throwing a less than perfect baby off a cliff. If a society was doing it right now I don't think many on the Hype would be backing them up because the reasons were "complex".

I don't think Leo died for his men as much as he died for the Spartan way. He was seriously mind ****ed his whole life, they all were. Growing up being told that there way was the ONLY real way of life. Growing up being told that they were the ultimate men. Sounds like Hitler a little doesn't it? In THAT regard it does. They did seemingly heroic things for reasons that were not heroic and intentions are the core of every action. Dying in battle to save the ones you love is one thing. Dying in battle to protect a way of life that has been burned into your head despite it's many EVIL deeds is another.

Wasn't America just attacked by a country who would DIE for it's own way of life because they believed that we were the root of evil and that our evil would spread and corrupt their lands? haha extreme comparison but seriously, they are believed to be heroes by their mind ****ed people but we all know that murder is wrong.

Apocalypse from the Marvel Universe believes that only the strong survive and the weak must perish. He'll do anything to preserve and fight for his beliefs. Now, if he were willing to die for them, would he be a hero?


p.s. I enjoy "300", I just disagree with the notion of there being any true heroes or selfless good guys in it

 

[The Question]

Morality can be complex, but 4 pages of debate won't justify throwing a less than perfect baby off a cliff. If a society was doing it right now I don't think many on the Hype would be backing them up because the reasons were "complex".

I never said that it's a good thing. I'm just saying that Leonidas was still a hero.

I don't think Leo died for his men as much as he died for the Spartan way. He was seriously mind ****ed his whole life, they all were. Growing up being told that there way was the ONLY real way of life. Growing up being told that they were the ultimate men. Sounds like Hitler a little doesn't it? In THAT regard it does.

I'm sorry, but that's ****. You can't compare Leonidas to Hitler at all.

They did seemingly heroic things for reasons that were not heroic and intentions are the core of every action. Dying in battle to save the ones you love is one thing. Dying in battle to protect a way of life that has been burned into your head despite it's many EVIL deeds is another.

I disagree. They were dying for the sake of their nation. If they hadn't stood against Persia, Sparta may have ended up being conquered. Also, a way of life can't do deeds, evil or otherwise.

Wasn't America just attacked by a country who would DIE for it's own way of life because they believed that we were the root of evil and that our evil would spread and corrupt their lands? haha extreme comparison but seriously, they are believed to be heroes by their mind ****ed people but we all know that murder is wrong.

No, America wasn't atacked by a country. It was atacked by a group of criminals from the Middle East. And yes, it is a very extreme comparison. In fact, it doesn't even compare. Leonidas and his men were trying to stop an invasion that would have ravaged their country. The terrorists were brainwashed fanatics working for a cowardly egomaniac who for some reason things that killing thousands of people will stop Western culture from influencing the Middle East like it had been doing for over 100 years.

Apocalypse from the Marvel Universe believes that only the strong survive and the weak must perish. He'll do anything to preserve and fight for his beliefs. Now, if he were willing to die for them, would he be a hero?

Again, not at all comperable. First of all, he's not willing to die for his cause. He's a coward who's turned tail and ran when his life was in even the slightest bit of danger. And second of all, defending a philosophy that you came up with and defending your country from a massive invasion force are two very different things.

p.s. I enjoy "300", I just disagree with the notion of there being any true heroes or selfless good guys in it

And I just disagree with you. They gave their lives so their country would become the property of an empire. That seems fairly heroic to me.

 

[larryfilmmaker]

Well you have to thank me for spacing out my points for you to reply to one by one at least.

And I just disagree with you. They gave their lives so their country would become the property of an empire. That seems fairly heroic to me.

To me it's patriotic, proud, and courageous... but at his core he is an elitist, controlled by his vanity and his obsession with his people and their traditions.

If a man who one day asks his king to please stop throwing their babies off cliffs and please stop ripping boys from their mothers and sending them to fight and murder each other would be accused of treason and probably sentenced to a violent death for even asking the question, that is a sick society. To be willing to die for this society isn't heroic, it's misguided and brainwashed. What was he dying for? Freedom? Sorry... if you just happen to avoid being thrown off a cliff at birth and murdered by your friend when you turn 11, you still won't be free. You have to live and breathe violence, or you're a ***** and unfit for Spartan life. That's what Leonidis is dying for? He's dying so that others might die and murder long after he's gone in the name of SPARTA!!!!

Yes, the invaders are bad guys... complete with growling, hissing, and petty methods to make Leo look like the hero, but both societies are racist and vain. It just happens to be Sparta that's under attack.

 

[Diamondhead]

I'm talking about Frank Millar, not Mark. Ever since Sin City the movie came out, he's been oogled over by fans, but I just don't think his stuff is any good. I read the Daredevil stuff, year one, sin city (and the movie) and, DK and DKR, and read the new Batman & Robin stuff, but aside from Y.O. I don't think any of it is good. It's just the same over the top, gritty crap with different characters. Even the movie, which yes, if I didn't like the comic, I wouldn't like the movie... i thought was bad. Granted, I'd still pay the $7.50 to see Alba work a pole, but aside from the artistic perspective, the movie wasn't worth my time. And now he's going to be writing and directing a Spirit movie? why? Maybe I have to read some spirit stuff, but from what I've read, he doesn't seem to fit to Millar's suit. Can someone help me out here?

He became popular because of that dark night novel decades ago
The bat fans made him popular I guess!
As for me I’ve never been that much impress with him
But I really enjoyed his sin city his Robocop and other few stuff
Anyway I’ve read enough stuff in my days to make me very judgmental.

 

[The Question]

To me it's patriotic, proud, and courageous... but at his core he is an elitist, controlled by his vanity and his obsession with his people and their traditions.

How was he controlled by vanity? And his obsession is with protecting his people. That's a fairly heroic trait.

If a man who one day asks his king to please stop throwing their babies off cliffs and please stop ripping boys from their mothers and sending them to fight and murder each other would be accused of treason and probably sentenced to a violent death for even asking the question, that is a sick society. To be willing to die for this society isn't heroic, it's misguided and brainwashed. What was he dying for? Freedom? Sorry... if you just happen to avoid being thrown off a cliff at birth and murdered by your friend when you turn 11, you still won't be free. You have to live and breathe violence, or you're a ***** and unfit for Spartan life. That's what Leonidis is dying for? He's dying so that others might die and murder long after he's gone in the name of SPARTA!!!!

You seem to have this misconception that all Spartans were bloodthirsty, brainwashed warmongers. That's not the case at all. Yes, their society was based around the military. But the very core of their philosophy was built around doing the right thing. The one thing they taught the kids in training is that doing what's right is more important than anything, even yourself. An example, from the greek soldier Xenophon's account of something involving a group of Spartans happening at one of the Olympic games:

"An elderly man was trying to find a place to sit and observe the Olympic Games, as he went to each section. All the other Greeks laughed as he tried to make his way through. Some ignored him. Upon entering the Spartan section all the Spartans stood and offered the elderly man their seats. Suddenly the entire stadium applauded. All the Greeks knew what was the right thing to do, but the Spartans were the only ones who did it."


I'm sorry, but your veiw on Sparta is incredibly simplistic and misguided.

 

[kainedamo]

Miller writes very bad stereotype Irish characters.

In Daredevil: Born Again there is that annoying ***** who keeps saying dumb stuff like "Oh, the explosions remind me of being back in Belfast!!" or "It's worse than Belfast!" or "Reminds me of the troubles!"

In Sin City, there is the IRA guy that says he likes to see people getting blown to bits in pubs. Plus, IRA "mercenaries" running around America makes no sense.

 

[The Question]

Miller writes very bad stereotype Irish characters.

In Daredevil: Born Again there is that annoying ***** who keeps saying dumb stuff like "Oh, the explosions remind me of being back in Belfast!!" or "It's worse than Belfast!" or "Reminds me of the troubles!"

In Sin City, there is the IRA guy that says he likes to see people getting blown to bits in pubs. Plus, IRA "mercenaries" running around America makes no sense.

1) They could simply have been ex-IRA working for the mob. Former soldiers/terrorist/militant extremists have gone to work for organized crime in the past.

2) That's not so much a stereotype of the Irish as it is a stereotype of the IRA, as they are quite twisted.

3) Daredevil himself is Irish, both sides of his family being directly descended from Irish immigrants. Besides red hair and being a devoit catholic, he's hardly a stereotypical Irishman (although, he does find himself in alot of barroom brawls).

 

[Erzengel]

I think Kainedamo wants them to be more whimsical, running away from children trying to get their lucky charms.

 

[kainedamo]

Matt's different. He wasn't born in Ireland, and he is unmistakingly a New Yorker. And he was created, what, 20 years before Frank Miller even started writting comics?

The woman in Born Again is most definately a bad stereotype. "Oh the explosions!! Oh the troubles!!".