Morrison's Preptime Batgod?

[VictusMortuus]

Do you even read Superman comics, or know anything about him? He always tries to talk down his opponents before whooping there ass, and Batman knows this.

 

[Sun_Down]

I've never seen this happen. Could you provide an example? I've seen Batman use very human cunning and seek edges to outwit or outfight people who think they should just be able to pound him into the ground. It happens in Batman comics, too, it's part of his character, and always has been.



Um...what do you think a plan stems from? Cunning and intelligence, methinks. And several of hins plans DO involve his resources (gadgets, inventions, knowledge of technology, etc). I have no idea what you're complaining about.

People, this "planning" thing is part of the core of Batman! Go read some forties and fifties comics. It existed even then. Look at all the "traps" he gets out of because he goes in prepared. That's that element of the character brought into the modern day by authors who recognize its significance. It's not something that Grant Morisson made up to make Batman look good, it's something Grant Morrison managed to utilize better than any other writer in recent memory.



No, it assumes that Batman is a lot smarter than most characters. Which he is. This is a fact.



So? It's not like Batman doesn't outwit non alien characters. Are you contending that he shouldn't be able to outwit or outfight these characters because they happen to be stronger? I don't buy that.

If you don't like "prep time" Batman, I question what elements you DO like about the character. What, do you WANT this incredibly intrelligent, resourceful character to get his ass handed to him because he goes into a fight against Darkseid without thinking about the angles?

I really don't think you're getting my point. At all.

There's nothing wrong with Batman being prepared, read my posts and that is quite clearly my opinion. But when Batman becomes a deus ex machina and people start going around spouting "Batman can beat anyone with prep time", it's just stupid and insulting.

And don't insult my fanhood because you have reading comprehension problems.

 

[Justin]

I really don't think you're getting my point. At all.

There's nothing wrong with Batman being prepared, read my posts and that is quite clearly my opinion. But when Batman becomes a deus ex machina and people start going around spouting "Batman can beat anyone with prep time", it's just stupid and insulting.

And don't insult my fanhood because you have reading comprehension problems.

Its true that it has become overused. In any major JLA story recently, it seems that Batman is the one who ends up saving the day. But this is just a more dramatic way of telling the story.

I mean really how interesting is a story where the JLA all but one get defeated, and it turns out the one is Superman. The one not defeated who has to save the day on his own after all the world's heroes are taken down is the most powerful one and has the powers of almost all the others combined. It is somewhat more interesting when the only one without powers, the one they underestimated, ends up saving the day. That's not to say that it is a good idea to pin an entire story on the fact that the one character without powers is going to save everyone.

It has become kind of cheap in the comics although I would very much like this in the movie.

 

[Sun_Down]

Its true that it has become overused. In any major JLA story recently, it seems that Batman is the one who ends up saving the day. But this is just a more dramatic way of telling the story.

I mean really how interesting is a story where the JLA all but one get defeated, and it turns out the one is Superman. The one not defeated who has to save the day on his own after all the world's heroes are taken down is the most powerful one and has the powers of almost all the others combined. It is somewhat more interesting when the only one without powers, the one they underestimated, ends up saving the day. That's not to say that it is a good idea to pin an entire story on the fact that the one character without powers is going to save everyone.

It has become kind of cheap in the comics although I would very much like this in the movie.

You just proved my point. Having Batman singlehandedly save the day over and over and over again becomes a cheap, predictable plot device and thus diminishes the impact and drama. Having it happen rarely and with great effort makes it more meaningful.

 

[Justin]

You just proved my point. Having Batman singlehandedly save the day over and over and over again becomes a cheap, predictable plot device and thus diminishes the impact and drama. Having it happen rarely and with great effort makes it more meaningful.

Yeah, I was agreeing with you. I would like to see it in the movie because obviously as this is the first JLA movie it hasnt been done yet in that format. In the comic it has become ridiculous and if there is more then 1 JLA movie then it should never be used again. That being said there is no reason why he cant stand on nearly equal footing with the other heroes. He just shouldnt stand so far beyond them that everything constantly comes down to just him. I know Superman and wonder Woman also play big parts in the JLA but it always seems like it comes down to Batman.

I just have a problem when people think that Batman can never stand up to Superman or a "Superman level" threat, but they have no problem with Lex Luther or other human villains being a match for Superman and other super powered villains.

 

[batnkevlar]

BTW, Batman has used magic before, in his teamup with Deadman... so it's possible he can use some archaic simple spell, such as "everything kryptonite" or "supersuit kryptonite" or something as simple as "hear everything"... Superman would be incapacitated...

 

[sepharih]

Ok, I’ve read a fair amount of the comments in this thread and I think I can safely say that most of the people who call it “silly” or “stupid” for Batman to be able to beat Superman are making an extremely common fallacy. People are trying to apply the logic of our universe onto these characters...which doesn’t work.

Arguing that it’s unrealistic for Batman to defeats Superman (and others) is true, but it’s also irrelevant.
It’s like arguing that it’s unrealistic for a desert farm boy with absolutely no training whatsoever to immediately start gunning down highly elite and well armed storm troopers. It’s like arguing that it’s unrealistic for a teenage wizard with only average magical talent to defeat the greatest dark wizard of all time. It’s like arguing that it’s unrealistic for 300 Spartan soldiers to stand up to over a million Persian warriors and withstand them for so long.

By the logic of our universe of course it’s unrealistic...but none of these characters exist in our universe. They live in their own fantasy worlds that follow their own unique logic. Batman exists in a universe with aliens, Greek gods, and magic. Because of this, what gives these characters their power does not exist in their actual strengths, but rather it exists within the nature of their characters and the archetypes which have been utilized in their creation.
Batman may not possess invulnerability in the literal sense that Superman does...but as a character he has been designed in such a way that he is nigh invincible. He has been designed in such a way that nothing less than a god has any chance of stopping him...and even then it’s a long shot.

Now has this entire aspect of Batman been overused? I don’t know...are we tired of the heroes always winning? Sometimes sure, you like things to get shaken up a bit from time to time to break the monotony, but I like the fact that Batman can beat the crap out of almost anybody. The fun part is more in finding out how he’ll do it in each case.

So yes, I want Batman to be the preptime batgod in this movie.

 

[KrypJonian]

I like this Batman for my Batman books. It makes sense he would have all this knowledge and prep time, but I don't like it for JLA.

Obviously, Batman is the smartest of the group, and thus be more prepared for situations, or be able to adapt quicker and come up with solutions. But I don't like it when Batman becomes the only person who can save the day for the entire JLA for the umpteenth time.

It makes me think back to the X-Men cartoon where everybody is scratching their heads over how to beat a foe, then in comes Wolverine to do what he does best and slash the day saved.

I don't like plot-device Batman, which is what we're talking about here.

 

[Porygon]

Simple fact is, if that Darkseid fight was brought to screen, the audience would roll their eyes.

 

[sepharih]

Simple fact is, if that Darkseid fight was brought to screen, the audience would roll their eyes.

I'd bet my next paycheck that they'd eat it up.

 

[D.P.]

^^ Co-sign.

I bet his next paycheck also.

 

[Steelsheen]

Morrison's preptime Batgod? LOL, as much as id like to see that, it'll only happen in a Batman movie Para.



btw, just giving my two bits, those Batman/ WonderWoman matchups are revolting.

 

[Jake Cassidy]

Simple fact is, if that Darkseid fight was brought to screen, the audience would roll their eyes.

Damn right. I don't wanna see Darkseid just walk away because Batman outsmarted him somehow. I wanna see Superman beat the crap out of him.

 

[Cobblepot]

Def. prep time Bats.
The cream of the crop would be him whooping Supes skinny a$$!

 

[Venomfan]

edit double post

 

[Venomfan]

how is Batman the smartst of the group anyway???
in a group with Gods and people and aliens from far off super advanced high tech galaxies. how is a human from a planet that is primitive comepared to the others, smarter then the rest?

 

[Nokio]

Well since it is evident Batman is going to be different from the Nolanverse one, should we go the full hog and make this Batman the Grant Morrison'ish preptime Batgod?? He comes with a Urban Dictionary definition

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=prep+time

If you ask me I wouldn't mind. Why? It annoys Superman fanboys to no end. Having it realized on the big screen would be comedy gold . Make him defeat Superman, gods and knock booties with Wonder Woman and still have time for tea.

The following images are copyrighted to DC and is only shown for educational purposes; to introduce newbies to Preptime Batman!

To defeating White Martians that are as strong as Superman
http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/1856/001ys6.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7394/002et2.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/7623/003yg2.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/6557/004vs2.jpg
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9714/005qf4.jpg

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/733/008mn7.jpg

Damn Morrison's run was excellant on JLA. No one has come close to his take on the JLA. That's just my opinion.

 

[The Guard]

how did Batman survive being smashed into that wall?

New God armor. Which he is clearly shown selecting for that purpose.

And something else...that no one seems to have touched on.

Darkseid RESPECTS him. Darkseid is a character who has been shown to have respect for other warriors before. He will acknowledge good moves or strategies. He is doing so here.

i think part of the problem is that all of a sudden the character that Batman is fighting becomes ridiculously stupid, just so Batman can win. take that red sun lamp fight above for example, instead of just flying in and knocking/killing batman, supes just sits around and waits for batman to do his thing.

Provide an example of a character becoming ridiculously stupid when Batman is fighting them. Come on...characters turning stupid? No, most of the time, Batman just figures them out or finds a way around them. Which is...all together now? What he's been doing for DECADES now.

A lot of things that happen in comic books COULD have gone differently, but so what? Of course a writer won't show Superman ripping Batman's head off before the Kryptonite affects him, or before Batman gets in his shots, etc...who would want to see Superman murder Batman just because he logically could? How well would that serve the mythology?

Again, do you people WANT the heroes to lose? Just because logically they might?

I assume Darkseid was trying not to kill him because he was holding a detonator that could destroy the planet.

Exactly. And Darkseid, above all else, values POWER and his search for the Anti-Life equation. Which he NEEDS Apokolips to maintain. Darkseid doesn't know that Batman doesn't kill. And if he did, he can't possibly know that Batman wouldn't kill THIS time.

I dont really understand the problem with the "prep-time" Batman. This "version" of Batman was around before Morrison, not sure where that comes from. Is that the popularized way of referring to this now?

Yes. Because people seem to be angry that Batman is clearly superior in a lot of situations due to his most basic traits: Intelligence and cunning.

I dont see how Superman fans can have a problem with this and yet have no problem seeing Lex Luther as a credible threat to Superman.

Exactly. Or when the cops don't swoop in and arrest Luthor for obvious crimes. Or when they do, and Luthor's lawyers ALWAYS get him off the hook.

I really don't think you're getting my point. At all.

Sure I do. You think Batman saving the day is overused. I think EVERYTHING is overused at this point. These characters have been around for 60 years, and they have new adventures every month.

There's nothing wrong with Batman being prepared, read my posts and that is quite clearly my opinion. But when Batman becomes a deus ex machina and people start going around spouting "Batman can beat anyone with prep time", it's just stupid and insulting.

But my friend, Batman's not becoming a Deux Ex Machina. He's preparing for his battles, because he knows he doesn't stand a chance if he plays fair. He's not making up constructs he needs on the spot with a magic ring. He's not calling on one of eight superpowers. He's doing what he can, and that's preparing before he goes into battle, and it's usually SHOWN that he's doing so.

ANYONE can beat ANYONE if that's what the writer wants. Who is it insulting to to say that Batman probably has the edge over a lot of characters due to his vastly superior intellect and strategizing?

And don't insult my fanhood because you have reading comprehension problems.

I didn't insult your fanhood. I asked a very relevant question.

Its true that it has become overused. In any major JLA story recently, it seems that Batman is the one who ends up saving the day. But this is just a more dramatic way of telling the story.

It's also more interesting than (stop me if you've heard this one) having one of several uber-powered characters PUNCH OUT THE BAD GUY SOMEHOW.

I mean really how interesting is a story where the JLA all but one get defeated, and it turns out the one is Superman. The one not defeated who has to save the day on his own after all the world's heroes are taken down is the most powerful one and has the powers of almost all the others combined. It is somewhat more interesting when the only one without powers, the one they underestimated, ends up saving the day. That's not to say that it is a good idea to pin an entire story on the fact that the one character without powers is going to save everyone.

And it's not like it happens ALL THE TIME. It is not ALWAYS Batman who saves the day. It is usually Batman who, if there needs to be an intelligent strategy come up with, comes up with it, but that's his ROLE with the JLA. He's the strategist of the group.

It has become kind of cheap in the comics although I would very much like this in the movie.

Everything has become kind of cheap, because at this point, almost everything has been done in the comics, and done repeatedly.

You just proved my point. Having Batman singlehandedly save the day over and over and over again becomes a cheap, predictable plot device and thus diminishes the impact and drama. Having it happen rarely and with great effort makes it more meaningful.

Problem is...it's too late for that. Batman's been saving the day with his skills for 60 years now. So have the other JLAers. Again, it's not like it's always Batman.

Yeah, I was agreeing with you. I would like to see it in the movie because obviously as this is the first JLA movie it hasnt been done yet in that format. In the comic it has become ridiculous and if there is more then 1 JLA movie then it should never be used again. That being said there is no reason why he cant stand on nearly equal footing with the other heroes. He just shouldnt stand so far beyond them that everything constantly comes down to just him.

He doesn't stand beyond them, except in terms of intelligence, which is the correct interpretation of the character at this point in the comics. Batman is LIGHT YEARS beyond the other leaguers in terms of intelligence. This is a man who spent a LIFETIME training his mind and strategizing. None of the other leaguers can boast that level of intelligence. And it's not something that they just "attribute" to Batman as a plot point. It's something that, if you follow th emythos, the character has earned.

I know Superman and wonder Woman also play big parts in the JLA but it always seems like it comes down to Batman.

It doesn't always come down to Batman, though. I've read a number of JLA stories where it comes down to Superman, Wonder Woman, or any of the others.

I think people are confusing Batman saving the day overall and scenes where Batman is threatened by HIMSELF and always gets out of it with a "Deax Ex Machina" moment (Again, a staple of the characte). However, it's not always Batman who saves the actual day.

Batman may not possess invulnerability in the literal sense that Superman does...but as a character he has been designed in such a way that he is nigh invincible. He has been designed in such a way that nothing less than a god has any chance of stopping him...and even then it’s a long shot.

Again it comes back to...so what? Do you WANT the hero to fail?

Now has this entire aspect of Batman been overused? I don’t know...are we tired of the heroes always winning? Sometimes sure, you like things to get shaken up a bit from time to time to break the monotony, but I like the fact that Batman can beat the crap out of almost anybody. The fun part is more in finding out how he’ll do it in each case.

Exactly.

Obviously, Batman is the smartest of the group, and thus be more prepared for situations, or be able to adapt quicker and come up with solutions. But I don't like it when Batman becomes the only person who can save the day for the entire JLA for the umpteenth time.

Batman has NEVER been the only person who could save the day for an extended period of time. He's had his share of moments, and that's because he's one of the BIG THREE. Superman, Diana, and the others have had plenty of moments, too.

It makes me think back to the X-Men cartoon where everybody is scratching their heads over how to beat a foe, then in comes Wolverine to do what he does best and slash the day saved.

Except that Batman's solutions tend to be far, far more interesting and clever.

I don't like plot-device Batman, which is what we're talking about here.

Everything that happens in a story is a "plot device" or "story point". You can't just reduce a character to one moment without taking his character makeup into context.

 

[D.P.]

The Guard FTW.

 

[explode7]

The Guard pawns every bat hater/marvel fanboy in this thread. Guard's the man.

 

[Porygon]

The Guard pawns every bat hater/marvel fanboy in this thread. Guard's the man.

Yeah, just because I don't think Batman should be stripped of all credibility I am a Marvel fanboy

 

[Jake Cassidy]

The Guard pawns every bat hater/marvel fanboy in this thread. Guard's the man.

I like Batman. I just like Superman more. t:

I ****in' hate Marvel (except X-Men)

How do you pawn someone?

 

[Lone]

I like Batman. I just like Superman more. t:

I ****in' hate Marvel (except X-Men)

How do you pawn someone?

With this:

 

[Ibn]

+

x

x

x

=

The way to go

 

[Rogzilla]

^ Dude...wtf is with the power chord? Color me confused!

It is like Gaurd said, it doesn't matter what COULD happen, all that matter is that BATMAN WINS ALL! :-P

I suspect we will at least see SOME elements of this Batman as he is shwon researching the weaknesses of all the characters.