Most dominant athlete ever?

[LongDong]

In your opinion, who is the most dominant athlete (not just based on athletic ability, but how they played the game) ever? Start off with the respective sport they play - say basketball, football, soccer, baseball etc... and then let's see how they stack against each other.

For instance in bodybuilding, obviously Arnold Schwarzenegger is arguably the greatest in that genre and rewrote the book on how that is done. Is the the most most dominant of all time? Look at what he did in the 70's and then came back to win Mr. Olympia for a 7th time with only 8 weeks of real training while filming Conan the Barbarian.

In Basketball, Magic Johnson might be the greatest baller to ever lace up a pair of shoes. He could play any position on the floor and dominate. He won at every level of the game throughout his entire life and made everyone around him a better player. Argue about his defensive abilities all you want, he was one of the best team defenders you will ever see (Lakers career leader in steals) and he was one of the most difficult players to defend. Better than Jordan..........? All around skills, abilities and leadership, absolutely hands down.

Football? Thoughts? Anyone?

 

[FaT_tONle]

I'd go Joe Louis for Boxing... Babe for Baseball... Russel for Basketball... Woods for Golf... Brown for football... Pele for soccer.

 

[Dr. Evil]

Boxing - Muhammad Ali
Soccer - Pele
Hockey - Wayne Gretzky
Football - Jerry Rice
Basketball - Michael Jordan
Tennis - Roger Federer
Baseball - Babe Ruth
Golf - Tiger Woods
Swimming - Michael Phelps
Track and Field - Usain Bolt
NASCAR - Richard Petty

 

[LongDong]

Football, I would have to go with Dan Marino. That guy faced defenses designed to stop him week in and week out. Constantly lining up in nickle and dime packages as he had no run support throughout his entire career and he still shredded them.

People will say he did not win the big one, but sorry this is a team sport. This game is not won by one player alone. You don't put up stats like he did facing defenses that he faced playing on teams he played on without being arguably the greatest pocket QB of all time.

 

[StorminNorman]

I'm not an X-Games sort of guy, but I would argue Shaun White.

 

[E-Man]

Alexander Karelin went six years without giving up a point in wrestling. Six freaking years! The dude went undefeated for 13 years, and won plenty of Olympic and World gold during that time. The guy was a freaking monster. He's probably the most dominant overall in terms of individual sports.

Boxing is probably Jack Johnson. I don't know why he's one of the most overlooked heavyweights when he literally toyed with people in the ring.

Football for me is Larry Allen. Yeah I know he's a lineman, but it's very hard to dominate like he did in the trenches with great players in that era. Yeah I'm a Cowboy fan as well, but that guy literally dominated more than any other player I've ever seen. Between 1996-2001 he only had one bad game that I saw, and the rest he put plenty of Hall of Famers to shame at different positions. He made Warren Sapp look like a damn Pop Warner player, and he ate Michael Strahan's lunch like he was Deebo or something.

Basketball may be Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain, but I'm too young to have seen them play. Jordan has to hold that title with Shaq coming in a close second. Jordan just owned games when he was in his prime. I'm glad I got to see that!

 

[Arc-Light]

Jesse Owens hands down...and also Jim Thorpe, what they did back in the day was and still is unparalleled..

 

[RAMORE]

Pretty good list I agree with most of except Soccer got to be Pele and Track Usain bolt has records but not longevity yet.

AUTO RACING
Richard Petty
Case for: His 200 career NASCAR wins are 95 more than the next guy, he won seven championships, and he’s still considered the best of all time in that sport.
Case against: None.

Michael Schumacher
Case for: His 91 career Formula 1 wins are 40 more than the next guy, and he has won seven championships.
Case against: Schumacher’s success often drew controversy, particularly in title-deciding collisions in 1994 and 1997.

Jimmy Johnson just won his fourth consecutive championship, but his career is far from over and he’s got a long way to go to be considered more dominant than Petty, or even Dale Earnhardt in NASCAR.


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BASEBALL
Ty Cobb
Case for: A .367 lifetime batting average, far and away the best in baseball history.
Case against: Played in an era where players didn’t hit for power. Also, he was a downright awful person and he’d get booed out of the stadium if he played today.

Babe Ruth
Case for: He was a great pitcher when he pitched, a great hitter when he hit, and sometimes hit more home runs than entire teams. He had a .342 lifetime average.
Case against: Not much, although some argue that he didn’t have to compete against the Negro League players who could have given him more competition.

Not: Barry Bonds and I shouldn’t even have to explain why.

Baseball is one of those sports that anyone you ask will tell you someone different is the most dominant. Others we considered were Willie Mays, Ted Williams and Bob Gibson. Sandy Koufax dominated for just a few years but not long enough.


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BASKETBALL
Michael Jordan
Case for: 2 Olympic gold medals, 6-time NBA champion, 6-time NBA Finals MVP, 5-time NBA MVP, 10 NBA scoring titles, holds the NBA records for highest career regular-season scoring average (30.12 points per game) and highest career playoff scoring average (33.4 points per game).
Case against: His stint with the Wizards was a disaster and probably still irks him since he is not one to lose a grudge. Taking off about two seasons to play baseball may have cost him two more championships. Also, other players have offensive records that Jordan didn’t come close to breaking.

Wilt Chamberlain
Case for: 2-time NBA champion, 4-time NBA MVP, once averaged 50.4 points a game in a season, once scored 100 points in a game, holds 72 official NBA records, and never fouled out of a game.
Case against: Didn’t win enough championships, though we’ve already stated that that’s not the barometer for being the most ‘dominating athlete.’

Not: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell, Magic Johnson because we’re confident that Jordan and Chamberlain are ultimately more dominating.

The general consensus in basketball is that Michael Jordan is the best of all time (though Celtics fans will say Bill Russell simply because he has more championships than anyone).


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BOXING
Muhammad Ali
Case for: He’s often considered one of the greatest of all time.
Case against: He did not live up to his potential because he left the sport in his prime. Also, he lost five times, didn’t exactly go out ‘on top,’ but excluding him from this list would cause a web riot.

Joe Louis
Case for: Championship reign lasted 140 consecutive months. Named the greatest heavyweight of all time by the International Boxing Research Organization, and was ranked number one on Ring Magazine’s list of 100 Greatest Punchers of All Time.
Case against: Ummm… never fought Mike Tyson in his prime?

Sugar Ray Robinson
Case for: Frequently cited as the greatest boxer of all time, Robinson’s performances at the welterweight and middleweight divisions prompted sportswriters to create “pound for pound” rankings, where they compared fighters regardless of weight.
Case against: Lost 19 times.

Not: Mike Tyson, who, like others, dominated the sport for a period of time, then lost, continued to lose, and tarnished a legacy. Not: Rocky Marciano because few believe he fought anyone that tough.

Boxing sparks quite a bit of debate because there are many dominant ones from different eras.


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CYCLING
Lance Armstrong
Case for: After surviving cancer, he won the Tour de France seven straight times. At the age of 38 he came back and finished third.
Case against: Accused of doping. Also, many forget that cycling is a team sport, and Armstrong’s team deserves credit for guiding him to victory, as well.

It’s not uncommon to hear someone say Armstrong is the most dominant athlete of all time.


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FOOTBALL
Jim Brown
Case for: In 2002, he was named by The Sporting News as the greatest professional football player ever. In 118 career games, Brown averaged 104.3 yards per game and 5.2 yards per carry. Only Barry Sanders comes close to those totals.
Case against: None.

Joe Montana
Case for: He won four Super Bowls and helped his teams to 31 fourth quarter come-from-behind wins.
Case against: Other quarterbacks either broke Montana’s records or hold records that Montana never did, and even won the same number of championships. ‘Who’s the best quarterback ever?’ is an article on its own, but we’ll stick with Montana as the representative for this position.

Jerry Rice
Case for: The all-time leader in every major statistical category for wide receivers and the all-time leader in touchdowns scored with 208.
Case against: Certainly benefited by having great quarterbacks.

Lawrence Taylor
Case for: He has been called the greatest defensive player of all time by members of the media, former players, and coaches.
Case against: Not much, though, like other athletes, his off-field issues make some people forget about his on-field success.


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GOLF
Tiger Woods
Case for: Was already considered the best golfer ever very early in his career, and it is far from over.
Case against: Though he is on course to obliterate them, he does not yet hold the records for majors or wins, so it’s hard to say he’s the most dominant ever if he hasn’t yet surpassed these milestones.

Jack Nicklaus
Case for: He currently holds the record with 18 major victories.
Case against: He’s not Tiger Woods.

Not: Arnold Palmer. He may have ‘transcended’ the game and made the sport incredibly popular, but his records pail in comparison to others.

Tiger Woods should be a finalist for the most dominant of all time.


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GRECO-ROMAN WRESTLING
Alexander Karelin
Case for: He was undefeated for 13 years. He won gold medals at the 1988, 1992 and 1996 Olympic Games. He went the last six years of his unbeaten streak without giving up a point.
Case against: Relatively speaking, Greco-Roman wrestling is too small of a sport compared to the others.

While Greco-Roman wrestling isn’t necessarily a sport that many argue about, Karelin’s 13-year winning streak is perhaps the most dominating accomplishment on this list. Michael Jordan, Tiger Woods, Babe Ruth, or anyone else accomplished anything like that.


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HOCKEY
Wayne Gretzky
Case for: He is so far ahead on the all-time points list, that had he never scored a goal, his assist total would still make him the all-time points leader.
Case against: He wasn’t a two-way player.

Bobby Orr
Case for: Led the league in scoring, as a defenseman. Once had a plus/minus of +124 (to put that in perspective, +37 led the league last season).
Case against: His career wasn’t long enough.

Not: Gordie Howe and Mario Lemieux, because we’re confident that Gretzky and Orr were ultimately more dominant.


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HORSE RACING
Secretariat
Case for: In 1973 became the first U.S. Triple Crown champion in 25 years, setting new race records in the Kentucky Derby and the Belmont Stakes.
Case against: He’s a horse.

You all know that you’re going to vote for Secretariat as a goof, so go ahead and cast your ballot now.


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SOCCER
Diego Maradona
Case for: Widely considered to be the second best soccer player of all time.
Case against: Only people from Argentina think that he is better than Pele. Also, a suspension for drugs kept him off the field for some time.

Pele
Case for: Won World Cups, flashy player, scored, transcended the game.
Case against: None.

Pele should be a finalist for the most dominating athlete ever.


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SURFING
Kelly Slater
Case for: 9-time ASP World Champion. 54 victories. 42 World championship tour wins.
Case against: Hard to compare surfing to these other sports.

We also considered Laird Hamilton, Taj Burrow, and the ‘inventor,’ Duke Paoa Kahanamoku.


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SWIMMING
Michael Phelps
Case for: He won eight gold medals at the 2008 Olympic Games.
Case against: Some of those world records may have been set with the aid of better swimsuit technology that Mark Spitz and Johnny Weissmuller didn’t have.

Mark Spitz
Case for: Amongst other things, he won seven gold medals at the 1972 Olympic Games.
Case against: Lost his records to Phelps.

Phelps will likely be a finalist for the most dominant athlete ever.


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TENNIS
Roger Federer
Case for: Already the all-time leader in men’s singles Grand Slam victories, Federer doesn’t look like he’s slowing down.
Case against: For a period of time, Rafael Nadal overtook Federer as the best player in the world, defeating him in the French Open and Wimbledon finals. It’s hard to say Federer is the best ever when he wasn’t even number one in his sport while in his prime.

Rod Laver
Case for: He was the world No. 1 player for seven consecutive years, and is the only player to have twice won all four Grand Slam singles titles in the same year. He would have had even more titles had the rules for majors been different back then.
Case against: He didn’t have to play Roger Federer.

Not: Pete Sampras because he didn’t come close to winning the French Open, the one gaping hole on his resume.


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TRACK
Usain Bolt
Case for: He holds the world record for the 100 metres, the 200 metres and, along with his teammates, the 4×100 metres relay. And he is still young so has more career ahead of him.
Case against: Does one extraordinary year make one the ‘most dominant athlete of all time?’

Carl Lewis
Case for: He won 10 Olympic medals (9 gold), and 10 World Championships medal (8), in a career that spanned from 1979 to 1996.
Case against: A controversy with the long jump in the ‘84 Olympics. Also, he wasn’t as dominant as long as Edwin Moses (below).

Edwin Moses
Case for: Between 1977 and 1987, Moses won 107 consecutive finals. Also, he helped set some of the most strict anti-drug policies for track and field.
Case against: None.

We also considered Jesse Owens, but he wasn’t as dominant as long as the above. We also give a shout out to Jim Thorpe, who is perhaps the most versatile athlete of all time.

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

BASEBALL
Ty Cobb
Case for: A .367 lifetime batting average, far and away the best in baseball history.
Case against: Played in an era where players didn’t hit for power. Also, he was a downright awful person and he’d get booed out of the stadium if he played today.


Not: Barry Bonds and I shouldn’t even have to explain why.

Baseball is one of those sports that anyone you ask will tell you someone different is the most dominant. Others we considered were Willie Mays, Ted Williams and Bob Gibson.

Jerry Rice
Case for: The all-time leader in every major statistical category for wide receivers and the all-time leader in touchdowns scored with 208.
Case against: Certainly benefited by having great quarterbacks.

1. Ted Williams is the greatest hitter ever. Batting Average is not the tell all stat to determine hitting dominance.

Career splits

Williams: .344/.482/.634
Cobb: .366/.433/.512

Williams lost 3 years off his career due to WWII so he didn't have as many at bats at Cobb did but his numbers we're still better than Cobb's at any point in his career. There's also a stat called OPS+ which factors in ballparks and makes the hitting context nuetral. Williams was still better than Cobb 190 over 168 in that regard.


2. Benefitting from great quarterbacks is not a case against him. Any receiver needs a QB who isn't terrible for them to have a chance to make plays. If so, you could make the argument for Montana "certainly benefitted from having great receivers." It goes both ways.

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

Not: Barry Bonds and I shouldn’t even have to explain why.

.

Explain why. Bonds was already a dominant player in the game before he started taking PED's. His domiance only increased as his muscle mass increased. When a player walks 232 times in a season ('04), regardless of what the player was doing in his personal life. That's dominance. It can't be ignored because his personal actions have nothing to do with the argument of on-field superiority.

 

[E-Man]

No love for Hank Aaron in baseball? I'm not a baseball fan anymore, but the guy has a damn good resume. I figured he'd at least get an honorable mention.

And what about females? Flo Jo was about as dominant as any track and field star, male or female.

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

Henry Aaron was quite the dominant player, yes.

 

[Dr. Evil]

No love for Hank Aaron in baseball? I'm not a baseball fan anymore, but the guy has a damn good resume. I figured he'd at least get an honorable mention.

And what about females? Flo Jo was about as dominant as any track and field star, male or female.

If I was to go females I'd go this route:

Soccer- Mia Hamm
Track and Field- Flo Jo
Basketball- Lisa Leslie
Figure Skating- Katarina Witt
Swimming- Natalie Coughlin (especially after her impressive haul at the Olympics)
Gymnastics- Nadia Comeneci (or however its spelled)
Tennis- Serena Williams

I do notice today though that there isn't one dominant star among the American track and field team, when we used to have the likes of Flo Jo, Carl Lewis and Michael Johnson. There are a bunch of good athletes, but not one American who dominates the field. Usain Bolt is Jamaican.

 

[Paroxysm]

Explain why. Bonds was already a dominant player in the game before he started taking PED's. His domiance only increased as his muscle mass increased. When a player walks 232 times in a season ('04), regardless of what the player was doing in his personal life. That's dominance. It can't be ignored because his personal actions have nothing to do with the argument of on-field superiority.

He can't, the lazy bastard just copy and pasted it from this site. http://sports.gunaxin.com/who-is-the-most-dominant-athlete-ever/33963

 

[StorminNorman]

Knowingly cheating the game you play eliminates you from being "dominant", regardless of anything else.

 

[Erzengel]

For MLB Closers, even though the definition has changed in the modern era as they pretty much only do 1 - 2 innings tops, 5 Time WS Champion, 537 Saves, 39 in the Post Season.

I know Trevor Hoffman has 596 Saves + 4 in the post season, but if you include Rivera's post season, he's only 24 below.

 

[RAMORE]

Explain why. Bonds was already a dominant player in the game before he started taking PED's. His domiance only increased as his muscle mass increased. When a player walks 232 times in a season ('04), regardless of what the player was doing in his personal life. That's dominance. It can't be ignored because his personal actions have nothing to do with the argument of on-field superiority.

Remember it was a cut and paste of an article. I said I agree with most of it that I didn't Bonds was hall of famer without the juice. I don't think he would have broke the single season home run record though.

 

[Matt]

Baseball:

For Baseball you kinda have to divide it into two fields, pitchers and fielders as the positions really are two seperate games all together.

Pitcher - Nolan Ryan
Fielder - Mickey Mantle

Football - So hard to name one player. I believe QB is the toughest position to play and is ultimately the leader, so I will select from that field. Montana or Bradshaw.

Basketball - Jordan, no way around this, really (unless you live in Boston or LA)

Hockey - Mario Lemieux. People can say Gretzky is the great one all they want, but Super Mario did things on the ice that Wayne could never dream of. Were it not for the cancer and back injury, had Mario played a full career every record Gretzky had would have been shattered. Even with the broken up career, Mario established himself as one of the best to ever play. Imagine if he got to play all the way through. Mario is simply, in Bobby Orr's words, "The most talented player ever." He beat cancer AND CAME BACK, he can sure as hell beat Gretzky.

Boxing - Tyson. I know its not a popular opinion and people like to rag on Tyson, and yeah, he kept fighting way too long, but lets face it, in his prime, he makes fighters such as Ali, Fraiser, and Louis look like *****es. Tyson was a monster that just couldn't be stopped. He dominated the sport.

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

Knowingly cheating the game you play eliminates you from being "dominant", regardless of anything else.

No it doesn't. Why would it eliminate him from discussion? If you're one of the best players of your generation, of course you'd have to consider said player. Are you forgetting that Bonds was an established great player before he started using PEDs?

Remember it was a cut and paste of an article. I said I agree with most of it that I didn't Bonds was hall of famer without the juice. I don't think he would have broke the single season home run record though.

I don't think anyone would disagree with that. McGuire was using Andro during the '98 season. Sosa was using whatever during those years as well lol.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Knowingly cheating the game you play eliminates you from being "dominant", regardless of anything else.

Lots of players cheated. Pitchers used to put all kinds of stuff on balls before they threw it: vaseline, snot, spit, they'd file it with a nail file or sandpaper.

Baseball:

For Baseball you kinda have to divide it into two fields, pitchers and fielders as the positions really are two seperate games all together.

Pitcher - Nolan Ryan
Fielder - Mickey Mantle

Wrong on Nolan Ryan. Walter Johnson is the best pitcher ever. 110 career shutouts. nuff said.

If by fielder you mean defense, Willie Mays was the best. If you mean hitter, it's Ted Williams. But if you want to dismiss Williams for sacrificing his prime years to serve in the Air Force, then it's Ruth.

 

[Matt]

Lots of players cheated. Pitchers used to put all kinds of stuff on balls before they threw it: vaseline, snot, spit, they'd file it with a nail file or sandpaper.



Wrong on Nolan Ryan. Walter Johnson is the best pitcher ever. 110 career shutouts. nuff said.

And Nolan Ryan has the most strike outs, most no-hitters, and is tied for most one-hitters. It all comes down to opinion, and I am of the opinion that Ryan is the best

If by fielder you mean defense, Willie Mays was the best. If you mean hitter, it's Ted Williams. But if you want to dismiss Williams for sacrificing his prime years to serve in the Air Force, then it's Ruth.

Actually, I mean all around. And I think all around, The Mick is the best.

 

[Dr. Evil]

IMO, Ken Griffey Jr. would have been one of the most dominate hitters ever had injuries not derailed his career.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

And Nolan Ryan has the most strike outs, most no-hitters, and is tied for most one-hitters. It all comes down to opinion, and I am of the opinion that Ryan is the best

Ryan also has the most walks. He has the lowest Hits/9 innings but even with that, his WHIP (walks+hits/innings), he's only ranked 262 for his career.

No-hitters and one-hitters rely on a lot of luck. And Ryan would walk a lot of guys in those no-hitters.

Ryan isn't even in the top 20 pitchers of all time. Walter Johnson, Lefty Grove, Pete Alexander, Cy Young, Warren Spahn, Tom Seaver, Christy Mathewson, Bob Gibson, Sandy Koufax, Bob Feller, Carl Hubbel, Greg Maddux, Steve Carlton, Robin Roberts, Jim Palmer, Gaylord Perry, Ed Walsh, Mordecai Brown, Juan Marichal, Whitey Ford, Ferguson Jenkins, and Randy Johnson are all better.

Actually, I mean all around. And I think all around, The Mick is the best.

The best thing Mantle was at was destroying his own body. Mantle is neither the best CF of his era, all-time, or even 2nd best CF ever. They are Mays, Mays, and Cobb, respectively.

 

[cyborg ninja 14]

Haha Matt pulled the "I don't want to start an argument so i'll pull the 'irrefutable opinion' card"

 

[E-Man]

To add to the boxing dominance, I think Ali and Tyson are beat out at heavyweight by Larry Holmes. He's the best heavyweight of all time IMO. The lower weight classes hold more long term dominance though. While heavyweight has become terrible, there are always great lighter fighters carrying legendary torches from the Sugar Rays to Roy Jones to Floyd and Pac now.