My Issue with "New Goblin"

[Blader5489]

Watching Harry sink into booze and murderous obsession was not a reason?

The only time we see Bernard with the drunken obsessive Harry is in SM2, where he tries to steer him back from insanity but gets a GTFO response from Harry. And like I said before, Harry's degradation literally happens overnight: discovers Spider-Man's identity, has a mental breakdown, then discovers his father's identity. By the time Harry acts on all this knowledge, he becomes amnesiac and is essentially turned back to normal.

So, from Bernard's perspective, Harry only appeared borderline crazy once.

How the butler knew everything about Norman without Norman knowing I have no idea.

Wtf? It's pretty simple. Norman was hardly being discrete about his alter-ego. It would've been easy for Bernard to overhear or see Norman acting as the GG without Norman knowing.

How a butler can make Harry go save his friends but Peter begging for help and apologizing and MJ clinging to life can't...mmmmkkkk.

Again, what's so difficult to understand? Bernard has, presumably, been with Harry since birth and would therefore have a stronger relationship with Harry than Peter does. Harry rejected Peter out of anger, and the only reason he listened to Bernard was because he corroborated Peter's story.

I agree that a final confrontation between Norman and Harry would have been better, but Bernard's revelation is hardly a plot hole.

 

[The Joker]

The only time we see Bernard with the drunken obsessive Harry is in SM2, where he tries to steer him back from insanity but gets a GTFO response from Harry.

Just because that's the only time we're shown it, doesn't mean it's the only time Bernard sees it. He works in the Osborn penthouse all day. He must have seen it loads of times.

Bernard's remark gives the impression that he sees Harry do that alot. Heck, if he spotted Norman sneaking in and out as the Goblin, he must have seen Harry boozing and obsessing over Spider-Man. It's not like Harry hid it from anyone.

And like I said before, Harry's degradation literally happens overnight: discovers Spider-Man's identity, has a mental breakdown, then discovers his father's identity. By the time Harry acts on all this knowledge, he becomes amnesiac and is essentially turned back to normal.

Not talking about that. I'm talking about watching Harry drowning himself in booze and murderous obsession with Spider-Man. Bernard just stood back and let it happen, when he could have salvaged it.

There's no excuse for this shoddy writing.

 

[Blader5489]

But the reason for Harry's boozing and murderous obsession was because of the fiasco with Ock, because his company had gone down the toilet and all he had left was his revenge (which Bernard tried to talk Harry out of). So I would think that what we saw in SM2 was the only occurrence of Harry's drunken obsession because the impetus for it happened within the movie.

You can even see towards the beginning of the film that Harry is mostly the same as he was in SM1, with just a restrained hostility towards Peter/Spider-Man.

 

[The Joker]

But the reason for Harry's boozing and murderous obsession was because of the fiasco with Ock, because his company had gone down the toilet and all he had left was his revenge (which Bernard tried to talk Harry out of).

Exactly! All the more reason of why Bernard should have told him the truth, if all he had left was wanting to kill someone for no good reason.

So I would think that what we saw in SM2 was the only occurrence of Harry's drunken obsession because the impetus for it happened within the movie.

How do you figure that? Harry was drowning himself in booze at the Planeterium party, too. Stands to reason he'd been doing it every day at home too, afterwards.

 

[chaseter]

Wtf? It's pretty simple. Norman was hardly being discrete about his alter-ego. It would've been easy for Bernard to overhear or see Norman acting as the GG without Norman knowing.

So the Butler went with Norman to the scene of the final battle, witnessed Norman killing himself, and the got back there before Spider-Man or Harry did? How did Bernerd know that Norman killed himself? Sure it was by his own blade but Spider-Man could have killed him. Harry was the first person and only person to see Norman's body as we were shown. The morgue would have done an autopsy to find out the cause of death...not the butler. It would have been fine had the butler told Harry to become his own man and make his own decisions. But IMO that final clash between father and son, what has been driving Harry for revenge and murder did not happen. And the lack of that made Bernerd, who jumped from all of 2 scenes and 2 lines in the previous 2 to delivering the climactic speech in the 3rd act that changes everything. It was utter balogna.

 

[chaseter]

Exactly! All the more reason of why Bernard should have told him the truth, if all he had left was wanting to kill someone for no good reason.



How do you figure that? Harry was drowning himself in booze at the Planeterium party, too. Stands to reason he'd been doing it every day at home too, afterwards.

Harry always had a drink in SM2...the scotch on the table when Bernerd says goodnight and the refill before Ock arrives.

 

[Vile]

Eh...the butler isn't really a plot hole, Bernard was just trying to maintain Norman's honor by keeping his identity a secret. There was no reason to tell Harry. By the time Harry had gone off the deep end, things moved far too fast for Bernard to do anything.

Actually, it's a HUGE plot hole because there is NO way the butler could have known that Norman 'died by his own hand'.

He could have seen the lair.
He could have seen the glider.
He could have heard Norman cackling and ranting.
Hell, he and Norman and The Goblin side could have chatted all night long with the Butler helping Norm repair the glider after the festival attack...

but, it doesnt change the fact that he WAS. NOT. THERE. THE. NIGHT. NORMAN. DIED.

I dont remember seeing him there with Pete and Norman when he was impaled, did you?

Thats because he wasnt there. At all.

The question is not if the butler knew Norman was the goblin - it doesnt matter. Yes or no, he couldnt possibly know that 'Norman died by his own hand'.

Cleaned the wounds or not. There are anyone of a DOZEN ways that Norman could have died that night.

For all the butler knows Peter could have picked up the glider and stabbed Norman thru the chest with it; he couldnt possibly know!

It's a huge plot hole.

Not to mention how just incredibly stupid a reason for it to be to get Harry to the final fight. Harry doesnt battle his internal demons - no, he doesnt think "Ya know...Pete's been saying this for a few years now that he didnt kill my father...he does seem to enjoy saving people...dad WAS a lunatic...maybe my BFF, pal, buddy didnt kill ol' dad. Maybe I should help save MJ from a giant sand monster and an alien...thing."

No, it was basically "Harry I know everything. I thought it would be best to wait till after yer friend torched off half yer face. By the way, that friend really does love you Harry. Yer dad killed himself. I work in the CSI when I'm not asking you dumb questions about having company over."

Harry: Bernard FTW!

 

[TomPiltoff]

I did, and bastardizing characters doesn't count as character development.

Ohhhhh, right. Peter Parker didn't wear a BROWN shirt the first time he kissed Mary Jane in the comics! Sam Raimi raped my childhood!

 

[The Joker_1000]

Lol

I didn't really have a problem with New Goblin, I loved James Franco's performance as New Goblin. I kinda hate that he was killed.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Lol

I didn't really have a problem with New Goblin, I loved James Franco's performance as New Goblin. I kinda hate that he was killed.

He died in the comics, so it was staying true to the comics that way. It was a sad scene when he died but I think it when't great with the storyline.

 

[Uber Venom]

How is his style getting old? This franchise is the most successful superhero franchise ever. Thats because of not only great actors, but a great director who has alot of love for the character.

Great actors? Maguire and Dunst are just.....ugh. Great? Please.

I like Franco, but the two main actors in this franchise are just bad. I don't even know how Dunst got the part of MJ. Maguire is painfully awkward, all the time. The gems in this franchise are Dafoe and Melina. Even if Dafoe's Goblin was a bit out there.

I think you're overrating these movies a bit much now. They're not perfect.

 

[Matt Murdock]

Ohhhhh, right. Peter Parker didn't wear a BROWN shirt the first time he kissed Mary Jane in the comics! Sam Raimi raped my childhood!

You obviously don't know what "bastardizing"means.

 

[Uber Venom]

Ohhhhh, right. Peter Parker didn't wear a BROWN shirt the first time he kissed Mary Jane in the comics! Sam Raimi raped my childhood!

I think it's a bit more than that.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Great actors? Maguire and Dunst are just.....ugh. Great? Please.

I like Franco, but the two main actors in this franchise are just bad. I don't even know how Dunst got the part of MJ. Maguire is painfully awkward, all the time. The gems in this franchise are Dafoe and Melina. Even if Dafoe's Goblin was a bit out there.

I think you're overrating these movies a bit much now. They're not perfect.

Overrating them? It's my opinion, not yours. You have your own opinion and I respect that.

 

[Uber Venom]

Overrating them? It's my opinion, not yours. You have your own opinion and I respect that.

Right, it just seems like you don't find any flaws in them. I'd just like to see your side of things.

 

[omid17]

Right, it just seems like you don't find any flaws in them. I'd just like to see your side of things.

agreed, it's weird how someone thinks SM3 is perfect, imo

 

[Venom 1988]

agreed, it's weird how someone thinks SM3 is perfect, imo

I love all 3 films but there no where near perfect, especially SM3.

 

[TomPiltoff]

You obviously don't know what "bastardizing"means.

Don't be a smartass. Obviously I think you're being overdramatic.

 

[Matt Murdock]

Don't be a smartass. Obviously I think you're being overdramatic.

It's still obvious that you don't know what bastardizing means.

 

[TomPiltoff]

It's still obvious that you don't know what bastardizing means.

Yes, I do. I disagree that Peter Parker (or really any character barring Spidey 3) was bastardized.

 

[Spider-Fan]

The Butler scene is a plot conveniance for sure, but I think it does make sense. Not really gonna delve too much into it again though (tired of arguing why it made sense).

I think, they should have just left out the scene and had Harry just show up to the battle. No scene watching Harry consider doing it, he just does it. More impactful, and you get a few more moments of screentime to devote to other things.

 

[TomPiltoff]

The Butler scene is a plot conveniance for sure, but I think it does make sense. Not really gonna delve too much into it again though (tired of arguing why it made sense).

I think, they should have just left out the scene and had Harry just show up to the battle. No scene watching Harry consider doing it, he just does it. More impactful, and you get a few more moments of screentime to devote to other things.

The butler scene is TERRIBLE, easily the worst scene of the entire trilogy.

But I agree, having Harry simply show up would be more impactful.

I also wish they would have not presented him as 'new, GOOD GUY Harry!'. It seems like he shows up and starts wisecracking. He should have been a man on a mission.

 

[omid17]

its funny how after the butler tells harry the truth, harry gets killed by his own glider too, lol

 

[chaseter]

its funny how after the butler tells harry the truth, harry gets killed by his own glider too, lol

And that is exactly what the Butler will tell the police. "Harry died by his own hands. The glider wounds matched that of his father's. Except Harry was saved by good while his father feel to the dark side."
**The Crime Scene Investigators and the autopsist are throwing sh** in the background pissed off.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I noticed people are disliking the Butler scene but I really liked it. Harry was very depressed and pretty much had lost it. Bernard cared for Harry, so he wanted him to know the truth about what happen to his father and how much Bernard and Harry's freind's love him. He only did it because he cared for Harry. I really thought it made sense and was emotional.