Fantasy Netflix's The Witcher - General Discussion Thread

[Gieferg]

I've read all the books, and for me, everything added to Ciri's story by the writers (probably 80% of it) is pointless and boring and nothing in future season won't change that. There is big difference between material taken from the source (books) and new material, which is much weaker by comparison.

What is even worse - they've deleted the original part of Ciri story in which, she actually meets Geralt before their reunion in the finale. Which was the best part of her story in the books and is nowhere to be found here. It takes away all the emotional impact of the finale. Even the writer of old polish show, who made many mistakes, was smart enough to not make this one.

Ciri is main character as much Geralt is.

Actually,

Spoiler

she is THE main character, more than Geralt is, but not at this point of the story.

. So it was a big mistake to change that.

 

[TheVileOne]

Ciri is the stealth main character basically.

I can see why certain things were removed. They wanted to hold off that first meeting clearly.

The Doppler subplot was anticlimactic. But in these TV shows, they always have to thrust obstacles in the path of the protagonists to keep them from getting to their desired outcomes or destinations. Every TV show does this.

 

[MagnarTheGreat]

The show runner said they started with Ciri as the main story character before they reconfigured the show as is.

 

[BlackFox]

Im sure as the show progress's Ciri will be more of the focus or at the very least on par with Geralt and Yen more than season 1.

Her story gets more interesting deeper into the series of the books anyway.

 

[squeekness]

I've watched four episodes so far and it isn't exactly blowing me away.

 

[heatvision38]

I would say 7 & 8 were my favorites. That's when the timelines converged and it felt like one long episode. It was great.

I finally finished my re-watch of the season and I love this show. I had some mixed feelings (the first time around) by about episode 6, with more good than bad, but then 7 & 8 really brought it home and had me really looking forward to S2.

But after a re-watch, with subtitles on this time to really catch all the nuances in the dialogue, it made me realize just how carefully crafted the season is. They must have had some insanely detailed storyboard in the writers' room to keep it all connected. Like, there is almost no fat on the story. Pretty much every scene, every seemingly off-hand piece of dialogue, serves a purpose, much of which I didn't realize until the re-watch. While the narrative approach they took made it denser at first, it now makes the world feel richer and more immersive for me. The music also was much stronger on second viewing (and it was already good the first time around). The Cintra music is just great.

Still think a mini LOTR-esque prologue would have helped.

 

[Lighthouse]

I think future seasons will feel more cohesive since the rest of the books are novels instead of short story collections.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Along with cohesiveness, they also need to improve writing, production, cinematography. But I'm not holding my breath.

Cavill's acting can't be improved, sadly.

 

[TheVileOne]

Along with cohesiveness, they also need to improve writing, production, cinematography. But I'm not holding my breath.

Cavill's acting can't be improved, sadly.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I mean, how come CDPR did better writing original material for the games than the Netflix show that's adapting the actual books?

 

[TheVileOne]

I mean, how come CDPR did better writing original material for the games than the Netflix show that's adapting the actual books?

I mean in CDPR's game, they created one of the best, most immersive game worlds ever for an RPG. And the reason it's better is because you can basically direct your own story. You get an influence on the way the story turns out. So CDPR empowers you more.

Also, they tweaked the world a lot to make it a bit more exciting and engaging for the player.

It caters to shippers too. If you hate Geralt and Yennefer, Geralt can end up with Triss. If you hate Triss, Geralt can end up with Yennefer. If you like Geralt flying solo, you can do that. The game gives you that option, and that's a lot of fun.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

So I am half way through the first season now.

Thoughts:

1. I did not like Cavill in the first episode. The next 3, I thought he was much better. He feels less like he is doing an imitation, and more of Geralt in Witcher 3, his way. His natural charm starts bleeding through imo. I am a fan of his Geralt.

2. Both Yen and Ciri are fine. The issue for me is how they have integrated them into the show up to this point. I get the idea, but to me it has hurt the episodes a lot. The show works when you are with Geralt, and every time we have to cut away from him, it slows the show to a crawl imo. Especially when you return to Geralt he is right where you left him. The only reason it cuts away is exposition, and it has all been really boring for me.

3. While Ciri story is an issue (nothing is happening), it is really a problem with Yen imo. I understand why they wanted to tell her backstory. I don't think they have been effective in how they have done it, but I get why. Beyond the execution though, I really don't like it all being spread out. Imo Geralt should have met Yen, and then we get her story in a one off episode down the line. They have robbed her of all her mystery, while at the same time over-complicating things.

4. That is why I am not a fan of the timeline jumping. Westworld pulled it off, but Westworld was kind of meticulous. This is not, and more then anything this has gotten confusing. I know the story, and I am confused. My friend who knows nothing about the Witcher has to keep asking me what is going and hasn't recognized characters. And that is unusual for her. She didn't have this problem with GoT and Westworld.

5. The structure of the show is the worst thing about it, imo. I don't know why they wanted 8 episodes at around 60 mins, instead of 9 or 10 at 45-50 mins, but It would have helped a lot imo. Introduce the world through Geralt and his story, and then gradually introduce Yen and Ciri. Their material would be so much better if they cut it down and streamlined it imo.

As everyone is about to start meeting up, I think that should help the pacing and structure of the show a lot. So far outside of Geralt and Dandelion, I haven't really gotten attached to any other characters and the writing has been pretty subpar imo. Also no mas on Triss.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I mean in CDPR's game, they created one of the best, most immersive game worlds ever for an RPG. And the reason it's better is because you can basically direct your own story. You get an influence on the way the story turns out. So CDPR empowers you more.

Also, they tweaked the world a lot to make it a bit more exciting and engaging for the player.

It caters to shippers too. If you hate Geralt and Yennefer, Geralt can end up with Triss. If you hate Triss, Geralt can end up with Yennefer. If you like Geralt flying solo, you can do that. The game gives you that option, and that's a lot of fun.

Being able to direct your story absolutely isn't the reason why Witcher games have superior writing to Netflix show. You can never see any alternative routes and still enjoy the hell out of the story. In Netflix show we have lame-ass Dara and in Witcher games even tiniest side characters like godlings Sarah and Johnny are fun, exciting and full of surprises.

Bad, uninspired writing is just that. Gameplay has nothing to do with it. Even Yen-Triss choice is irrelevant. When a character is important for the story, the narrative makes the choice for you. It's not Triss who heals Uma condition and it's not Yennefer who abuses Geralt's memory.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I mean in CDPR's game, they created one of the best, most immersive game worlds ever for an RPG. And the reason it's better is because you can basically direct your own story. You get an influence on the way the story turns out. So CDPR empowers you more.

Also, they tweaked the world a lot to make it a bit more exciting and engaging for the player.

It caters to shippers too. If you hate Geralt and Yennefer, Geralt can end up with Triss. If you hate Triss, Geralt can end up with Yennefer. If you like Geralt flying solo, you can do that. The game gives you that option, and that's a lot of fun.

What makes CDPR work is their quality writing. Even before we got to Witcher 3, which had all the bells and whistles, they wrote really strong dialogue, that gave life to the characters. The world building was fun to engage in. The characters have personality, so you pick up a lot more. There are dialogue options and choices, but the games funnel you down a very specific path, with different outcomes, but not very big different ways of getting there.

The shipping thing is an odd comment imo, considering that didn't apply to the second game (where Shani wasn't even an option), and the shipping narrative didn't really even come up until after 3 came out and people were upset that the Triss narrative was super shortchanged. Game Triss is my girl, but even I know where the story is pushing you.

 

[TheVileOne]

What makes CDPR work is their quality writing. Even before we got to Witcher 3, which had all the bells and whistles, they wrote really strong dialogue, that gave life to the characters. The world building was fun to engage in. The characters have personality, so you pick up a lot more. There are dialogue options and choices, but the games funnel you down a very specific path, with different outcomes, but not very big different ways of getting there.

The shipping thing is an odd comment imo, considering that didn't apply to the second game (where Shani wasn't even an option), and the shipping narrative didn't really even come up until after 3 came out and people were upset that the Triss narrative was super shortchanged. Game Triss is my girl, but even I know where the story is pushing you.

I mean the writing in The Witcher 1 is nowhere near as good. It took time and effort for them to get where they were in Witcher 3. It didn't happen overnight.

So maybe that's reason enough to give the writers on the TV show a chance

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I mean the writing in The Witcher 1 is nowhere near as good. It took time and effort for them to get where they were in Witcher 3. It didn't happen overnight.

So maybe that's reason enough to give the writers on the TV show a chance

The biggest issue with the first Witcher was the crew didn't speak English very well, and they were a very small company, who were cutting corners in terms of the cost. So the translation was what it was. This is an expensive Netflix adaptation, which isn't writing nearly as much material.

We can give the show a chance. I am, I am watching it. But that doesn't mean you can't critique what is happening. Also, I find it a bit of an excuse, when this material is already written, and the major issues have come with how they adapting it and their "original" material.

I find your reaction to this rather odd Vile. It seems the show is popular enough. The trailers got a lot of play, it already has a second season, and I assume it will do really well in terms of streams, so it doesn't need support to just make sure it keeps going. I don't expect shows to be Watchmen out of the gate, but this doesn't feel like the kind of growing pains shows like the Mando or Justified had during their first seasons. Where there are issues, but overall they rather rock. Halfway through the first season, and I kind of feel exhausted. But that might just be the Christmas turkey leftovers.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

I mean, how come CDPR did better writing original material for the games than the Netflix show that's adapting the actual books?

Cause the showrunner sucks as a writer and showrunner.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Cause the showrunner sucks as a writer and showrunner.

She wrote some good episodes of Umbrella Academy and Daredevil. She also wrote a lot of episodes of the Defenders so....

 

[OutOfBoose]

Cause the showrunner sucks as a writer and showrunner.

I'm willing to give her a second chance with season 2. It's REALLY hard to launch something and maybe, with a bit more confidence now that they have something, they will be able to overcome most of shortcomings of the first season. But, like I said above, improvements are needed in nearly every area.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I'm willing to give her a second chance with season 2. It's REALLY hard to launch something and maybe, with a bit more confidence now that they have something, they will be able to overcome most of shortcomings of the first season. But, like I said above, improvements need in nearly every area.

I mean of course it is hard. But comes with the responsibility, and honestly there have been a lot harder things to launch, that rocked out of the gate.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I mean of course it is hard. But comes with the responsibility, and honestly there have been a lot harder things to launch, that rocked out of the gate.

Of course. I can't pinpoint why exactly, but the first season felt like showrunners weren't terribly interested in the book stories and all that origin stuff, and treated them like "let's get this out of the way". Even LSH wanted to go straight for Ciri the protagonist initially. So this is why I'm thinking "ok, you got that out of the way, let's see what you can do now".

 

[TheVileOne]

I have plenty of critiques for Season 1. I'm simply overall happy with the product and result. Obviously, it's not for everybody.

I was convinced Anya Chalotra was a bad pick for Yennefer at first. She proved me wrong.

There are a lot of things from the book I'm not happy are gone or were changed. At the same time this is the general result with any film or TV adaptation. Many elements are changed, altered, switched around, removed, etc.

I highly doubt DUNE is making it to the screen again without major changes to the source material. That's my favorite book of all time.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I have plenty of critiques for Season 1. I'm simply overall happy with the product and result. Obviously, it's not for everybody.

I was convinced Anya Chalotra was a bad pick for Yennefer at first. She proved me wrong.

There are a lot of things from the book I'm not happy are gone or were changed. At the same time this is the general result with any film or TV adaptation. Many elements are changed, altered, switched around, removed, etc.

I highly doubt DUNE is making it to the screen again without major changes to the source material. That's my favorite book of all time.

I need to see her act like Yen first. The first 4 episodes, very little of book/game Yen.

I agree that stuff is changed and altered. Which is what the games did, and for the better imo. I don't really have problems with stuff being changed. My issues has way more to do with execution and just in general writing, at least so far. Geralt is fun though, so that is good.

Funny you bring up Dune. Because during the water scenes in episode 4, that is all I could think of.

 

[BlackFox]

I would say 7 & 8 were my favorites. That's when the timelines converged and it felt like one long episode. It was great.

I finally finished my re-watch of the season and I love this show. I had some mixed feelings (the first time around) by about episode 6, with more good than bad, but then 7 & 8 really brought it home and had me really looking forward to S2.

But after a re-watch, with subtitles on this time to really catch all the nuances in the dialogue, it made me realize just how carefully crafted the season is. They must have had some insanely detailed storyboard in the writers' room to keep it all connected. Like, there is almost no fat on the story. Pretty much every scene, every seemingly off-hand piece of dialogue, serves a purpose, much of which I didn't realize until the re-watch. While the narrative approach they took made it denser at first, it now makes the world feel richer and more immersive for me. The music also was much stronger on second viewing (and it was already good the first time around). The Cintra music is just great.

Still think a mini LOTR-esque prologue would have helped.

The more I rewatch the more I like it, even Cavill and his voice has grown on me, I think it just took a few episodes for him to get to grips with the role. I even really like episode 1 now and thats by far the weakest.

I just need to find a way to watch The Mandalorian these holidays and 2019 will be complete and end on a some good highs.

 

[TheVileOne]

As far as changes, I mean Joey Batey is great as Jaskier and we got that great song from him in Episode 2. Now, if you don't like Jaskier fine but I think having Jaskier create a song that basically changes what really happens in order to glorify Geralt and give the common people a good story he can profit from, I find that fascinating. Now, I highly disliked the abrupt ending of Episode 2 and how they removed a major part of that story and basically it's whole resolution from the book. But the ending with Jaskier creating this great song, that's basically fake news, was amazing.

The stuff with Ciri in Brokilon just felt like a bit of a goofy diversion. I don't think they did a great job with Brokilon, the Dryads or the Dara character. Once Dara started opening his mouth, his acting and delivery were really goofy. Makes no sense that the ultra paranoid Dryads would let a human male into their village without making him drink the waters either.

Also the conclusion with the Doppler subplot was also iffy. I like that they incorporated a doppler into the story, but the way it was done felt sorta pointless. Just an arbitrary way to move the story along.