Fantasy Netflix's The Witcher - General Discussion Thread

[Fincher]

And that's fine, but if fans "leave it" because it's closer to the source material that their fave is based on, then there was no hope for them anyway, imo. That just comes across as entitled fanboyism at its worst to me.

The first Batman comics had him as a self-contained vigilante who killed people. Does that mean that fans who want the Justice League and the no-kill code are entitled fanboys and those who want him in solo titles where he kills aren't? What difference does what came first make? People experience media, they enjoy it, they get attached to aspects and want more of that, and it's that very attachment that companies use to profit off of an existing franchise. It's the same. There's no high ground.

And I don't know what you mean by there being no hope for them, because fans of an original can be just as demanding. If the showrunners choose to go to the source, then yeah, they're likely to lose fans of the adaptation, but if they choose to go by the adaptation they can just as easily lose fans of the source material. They can't please everyone, that's just a fact. That's true when you're making something original, and if the fanbase becomes fractured, well, that's reality and a consequence of having differing versions in the first place.

 

[flickchick85]

The first Batman comics had him as a self-contained vigilante who killed people. Does that mean that fans who want the Justice League and the no-kill code are entitled fanboys and those who want him in solo titles where he kills aren't? What difference does what came first make? People experience media, they enjoy it, they get attached to aspects and want more of that, and it's that very attachment that companies use to profit off of an existing franchise. It's the same. There's no high ground.

And I don't know what you mean by there being no hope for them, because fans of an original can be just as demanding. If the showrunners choose to go to the source, then yeah, they're likely to lose fans of the adaptation, but if they choose to go by the adaptation they can just as easily lose fans of the source material. They can't please everyone, that's just a fact. That's true when you're making something original, and if the fanbase becomes fractured, well, that's reality and a consequence of having differing versions in the first place.

And if someone decided to go back to the original source material with Batman, it would be perfectly valid. I'm not seeing the argument here. People will either like the adaptation or they won't. I'm just saying it's never "wrong" to stick to the source material over the more popular adaptation. That's just an utterly silly notion to me. The books obviously have their fans, too, and variety is the spice of life.

And yeah, if you're so rigidly set on them referencing one specific adaptation, then you were never predisposed to liking another. That's what I meant by "there was no hope for them." Adaptations ARE going to be different from each other. It's inevitable. So they can either be open to a new take, or stick with the one they like. Either way, this series will have its own audience because it's a Netflix fantasy series with a name star in the lead.

For the record, I have never read the books or played the game. Don't care. I'm coming to this as an outsider, as will many people, popular video game or not. And from my perspective, if the source material is good, and they adapt it faithfully, then it has every chance of being a good and successful show, regardless of how many game fans decide to boycott it. And let's be real, half those loudest dissenters will be watching it anyway, even if just to find more to complain about.

 

[TheVileOne]

I'm sure we are going to have fans who go rabid with each episode and the changes with a fine toothed comb.

And while I have definite concerns over the casting, it's nothing to keep me from watching the show. Cavill certainly wasn't my first choice as Geralt, but I'm sort of glad it's him compared to some of the other choices I was seeing online, which were horrendous.

Above all the fan bickering, I really just want a show that embraces dark fantasy like Goblin Slayer.

And look, no problem to people who love Game of Thrones, but there are times when I think Game of Thrones could do the dark fantasy thing better.



Like this is the tone I want the show to capture. Not that it should be devoid of humor because there's actually quite a bit of humor at times in Sapkowski's stories. Like the time Dandelion and Geralt seek advice from an old wise woman when they are dealing with that unruly sylvan. The wise woman has basically memorized all the information from this old book of magical monsters and creatures. And they ask her about the entry of the "Witch Man" (Witchers), and her explanation is hilarious.

Here is an example of the type of humor I'd like to see the show use:

'A witchman,' mumbled the woman. 'Called by some a witcher. To summon him is most dangerous, albeit one must; for when against the monster and the vermin there be no aid, the witchman can contrive. But careful one must be-'

'Enough,' muttered Geralt. 'Enough, Grandma. Thank you.'

'No, no,' protested Dandilion with a malicious smile. 'How does it go on? What a greatly interesting book-e! Go on, Granny, go on.'

'Eeee . . . But careful one must be to touch not the witchman, for thus the mange can one acquire. And lasses do from him hide away, for lustful the witchman is above all measure-'

'Absolutely spot on,' laughed the poet, and Lille, so it seemed to Geralt, smiled almost imperceptibly.

'-though the witchman greatly covetous and greedy for gold be,' mumbled the old woman, half-closing her eyes, 'giveth ye not such a one more than: for a drowner, one silver penny or three halves; for a werecat, silver pennies two; for a plumard, silver pennies-'

'Those were the days,' muttered the witcher. 'Thank you, Grandma. And now show us where it speaks of the devil and what the book says about devils. This time 'tis grateful I'd be to heareth more, for to learn the ways and meanes ye did use to deal with him most curious am I.'

 

[Punisher_MAX]

Most of The Witcher fans will be coming in from the games and not the books.

And what's sort of ironic is even the games made a lot of changes and retcons from what was established in the books.

Like what? Maybe I gotta reread the books again haha but it seemed to me like they were mostly pretty spot on with what they did with the games regarding the books.

I'm one of those fans that came from the games and while Yen and Triss casting irks me, its really only Fringilla's that rubs me the wrong way. I HOPE the show is good, trust me.

 

[Fincher]

And if someone decided to go back to the original source material with Batman, it would be perfectly valid. I'm not seeing the argument here. People will either like the adaptation or they won't. I'm just saying it's never "wrong" to stick to the source material over the more popular adaptation. That's just an utterly silly notion to me. The books obviously have their fans, too, and variety is the spice of life.

And yeah, if you're so rigidly set on them referencing one specific adaptation, then you were never predisposed to liking another. That's what I meant by "there was no hope for them." Adaptations ARE going to be different from each other. It's inevitable. So they can either be open to a new take, or stick with the one they like. Either way, this series will have its own audience because it's a Netflix fantasy series with a name star in the lead.

For the record, I have never read the books or played the game. Don't care. I'm coming to this as an outsider, as will many people, popular video game or not. And from my perspective, if the source material is good, and they adapt it faithfully, then it has every chance of being a good and successful show, regardless of how many game fans decide to boycott it. And let's be real, half those loudest dissenters will be watching it anyway, even if just to find more to complain about.

If you're saying that fans exist that are "impossible" to please and that showrunners won't set out to make everything exactly right in the hopes of winning them over, then okay. I just don't see any difference between expectations being based on the source material vs. a previous adaptation.

I'd also say that there are degrees of expectations, that because changes alienated someone doesn't have to mean that they had a long list of expectations, just that the thing that was made didn't meet what they did have. I mean, I'm not technically an example anyway because I'm still open to watching it if it looks good enough, but...

Well, I only played the first game, which I thought was great. The Netflix show isn't a game, so it's not going to have the gameplay or the element of making choices, which was a large part of the experience. That goes without saying, that's fine. It's not going to tell the same story, fine. Geralt doesn't have amnesia, fine. It's not using the same designs...I mean, recognizable elements are nice and all, but if set and wardrobe design are good, then cool, whatever.

A lot of the characters won't be in it because they were only in the games...well, what really matters is Triss Merigold. For me, getting Triss "right" is akin to how someone else might feel about having it be medieval fantasy and not set in outer space. In fact, I'd be more interested in The Witcher in Space with a Triss to my liking than medieval fantasy Witcher with no Triss or Triss done "wrong".

And I've become aware that Triss in the books is characterized differently than Witcher 1 Triss, so I'm not getting the Triss that I want, which adds to me wanting her to look like I think she should so she's not like an entirely different character: beautiful, not simply having red hair but having red hair suit her so that she does it justice, calling the game character to mind. When there was a rumor that they'd cast an English actress, I thought of young English actresses, and one of the few to come to mind was Ellie Bamber. That would have gotten me enthusiastic regardless of the differences because she's got the looks, she rocks red hair, and I look at her and can see Triss. And then, as far as I'm concerned, they completely missed the mark with the actress they actually cast. And my interest dropped to the point where I'd be more interested if I'd never played a Witcher game before.

 

[flickchick85]

I just don't see any difference between expectations being based on the source material vs. a previous adaptation.

I didn't see anything in your post I disagreed with, but I did want to address this: It's one thing to prefer an adaptation's version of something over the source material. But it's a whole other thing to say the adaptation's way is the only "correct" or "accurate" way to do it. The former is an opinion, and that's perfectly valid. The latter is a ridiculous notion, imo. Because regardless of how popular an adaptation was, it was still someone else's interpretation of the originator's idea, so going back to the originator's intent when doing a new adaptation is obviously a perfectly sound and natural approach. And for the record, I'm certainly not accusing YOU of any of this. I'm just responding to some of the more hyperbolic "No beard, no Geralt!" types I've seen elsewhere. I'm not begrudging anyone who'd prefer something more like the games. I'm just trying to understand those who act like being truer to the ACTUAL source material is some kind of betrayal. Someone told this story first and created these characters. It definitely wasn't the gaming company.

 

[TheVileOne]

Like what? Maybe I gotta reread the books again haha but it seemed to me like they were mostly pretty spot on with what they did with the games regarding the books.

I'm one of those fans that came from the games and while Yen and Triss casting irks me, its really only Fringilla's that rubs me the wrong way. I HOPE the show is good, trust me.

Hmm spoiler-ish stuff:

Spoiler

The games sort of ignore or at least downplay that Emperor Emhyr had at one point plotted to wed Ciri, his own biological daughter, in hopes of giving birth to some type of savior from the White Frost. Also, Emhyr at one point in the books has another woman pose as Ciri and even marries her, and she poses as the fake Empress Ciri. The third game basically ignores that there was a fake Ciri who was married to Emhyr for political reasons.

Signs do not work quite like they do in the games. Geralt doesn't really use sign magic quite the same way. The signs are there, but they are used very sparingly. And Geralt can't do things like shoot fire bolts from his hands.

Monsters are not quite as plentiful as they are in the game world. In the books they are dying out more, making it harder for Geralt to find work.

Geralt doesn't always carry two swords at all times. And some monsters can be killed without use of silver. It's not an absolute rule of "steel for humans and silver for monsters."

Geralt likes to stay clean shaven. He hates growing out a beard because it itches. In the games it doesn't really bother him.

Much less use of potions.

In The Witcher 3, the White Frost is almost made out to be this evil entity or spiritual force who Ciri has to face. In the books, the White Frost is basically sort of a naturally occurring phenomenon that will befall the world at some point.

Geralt's first and main love is always Yennefer. While he does sleep around with other women, it's Yennefer who he loves. The games make it so you can "love" Triss instead. That's fine if you have a preference for Triss. A lot of fans do, but canonically, his one true love is Yennefer.

 

[Fincher]

Because regardless of how popular an adaptation was, it was still someone else's interpretation of the originator's idea, so going back to the originator's intent when doing a new adaptation is obviously a perfectly sound and natural approach.

Sure, I don't disagree with that.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Speaking about characters that won't be (most likely) in the show because they were created by CDPR.

Letho. Witchers are even more dying breed in the books and it was really fun to see a prominent witcher from a different school.



Vernon Roche. Gaunter O'Dimm. Cerys is my favorite original female character in the games. Really fun rivalry with her brother.

Johnny and Sarah - godlings.



I don't want to mention Iorveth, because they won't find a good looking actor to play him. And he needs to have a striking appearance to contrast it with the horrible scar.

 

[Punisher_MAX]

Hmm spoiler-ish stuff:

Spoiler

The games sort of ignore or at least downplay that Emperor Emhyr had at one point plotted to wed Ciri, his own biological daughter, in hopes of giving birth to some type of savior from the White Frost. Also, Emhyr at one point in the books has another woman pose as Ciri and even marries her, and she poses as the fake Empress Ciri. The third game basically ignores that there was a fake Ciri who was married to Emhyr for political reasons.

Signs do not work quite like they do in the games. Geralt doesn't really use sign magic quite the same way. The signs are there, but they are used very sparingly. And Geralt can't do things like shoot fire bolts from his hands.

Monsters are not quite as plentiful as they are in the game world. In the books they are dying out more, making it harder for Geralt to find work.

Geralt doesn't always carry two swords at all times. And some monsters can be killed without use of silver. It's not an absolute rule of "steel for humans and silver for monsters."

Geralt likes to stay clean shaven. He hates growing out a beard because it itches. In the games it doesn't really bother him.

Much less use of potions.

In The Witcher 3, the White Frost is almost made out to be this evil entity or spiritual force who Ciri has to face. In the books, the White Frost is basically sort of a naturally occurring phenomenon that will befall the world at some point.

Geralt's first and main love is always Yennefer. While he does sleep around with other women, it's Yennefer who he loves. The games make it so you can "love" Triss instead. That's fine if you have a preference for Triss. A lot of fans do, but canonically, his one true love is Yennefer.

Yeah the only one I scratched my head at was the first thing about Emhyr. Also do agree about the thing about the White Frost.

I'll also admit I loved Triss in the games and chose her, but I give CDPR props for building on her character and making her so likeable. I think they nailed Yennefer's personality too.

The other things are sorta minor and would make sense that they are played up in a video game setting but honestly are pretty cool additions. Especially the sign usage.

The beard controversy I don't care much for, my Geralt had a 5 o clock shadow all the time never liked him with a beard haha

 

[Punisher_MAX]

Speaking about characters that won't be (most likely) in the show because they were created by CDPR.

Letho. Witchers are even more dying breed in the books and it was really fun to see a prominent witcher from a different school.



Vernon Roche. Gaunter O'Dimm. Cerys is my favorite original female character in the games. Really fun rivalry with her brother.

Johnny and Sarah - godlings.



I don't want to mention Iorveth, because they won't find a good looking actor to play him. And he needs to have a striking appearance to contrast it with the horrible scar.

Man I loved Letho. I guess that's why I love the games so much because they did justice to the world of The Witcher, added some awesome characters and stories, and in my opinion, ended Geralt's story much better. That last conversation with Regis at the end of Blood and Wine was perfect.

 

[Inhuman117]

how many episodes are planned 10 or 13 ?

 

[OutOfBoose]

how many episodes are planned 10 or 13 ?

8

 

[Lilbaz]

Yeah, I was wrong about SoIaF hardcore community, but it gives me more hope:

People moan, not sure about hate though. I was a book reader first, you have to accept it wont be accurate. If there are got haters they are minimal and nobody really cares because the majority loved it.

 

[Loden Greatstorm]

I'm sure we are going to have fans who go rabid with each episode and the changes with a fine toothed comb.

And while I have definite concerns over the casting, it's nothing to keep me from watching the show. Cavill certainly wasn't my first choice as Geralt, but I'm sort of glad it's him compared to some of the other choices I was seeing online, which were horrendous.

Above all the fan bickering, I really just want a show that embraces dark fantasy like Goblin Slayer.

And look, no problem to people who love Game of Thrones, but there are times when I think Game of Thrones could do the dark fantasy thing better.



Like this is the tone I want the show to capture. Not that it should be devoid of humor because there's actually quite a bit of humor at times in Sapkowski's stories. Like the time Dandelion and Geralt seek advice from an old wise woman when they are dealing with that unruly sylvan. The wise woman has basically memorized all the information from this old book of magical monsters and creatures. And they ask her about the entry of the "Witch Man" (Witchers), and her explanation is hilarious.

Here is an example of the type of humor I'd like to see the show use:

That video is simply amazing. I hope the show is just as good as that video....

 

[TheVileOne]

Yeah I hope they get some great music for the show. I mean I love the music in the games. It's perfect and iconic to me. I don't need the show to be 1:1 to the games, but I really need some great atmospheric music to round this out.

Well if it doesn't work. I can keep enjoying my Goblin Slayer and Castlevania to a lesser extent.

If anyone here likes anime and dark fantasy, I recommend Goblin Slayer.

 

[OutOfBoose]

Lauren S. Hissrich was really talkative lately on her twitter.

It's really nice she brought Sakharov to the show. I became familiar with his work when I watched The Sopranos (my favorite TV series ever) and since then he was a sign of quality for me. He knows his stuff.

 

[TheVileOne]

Little tidbit that I thought sounded genuinely encouraging:

With 100 Foreign-Language Series, Netflix Will Take Binge-Watching Global

“These are Polish novels where we’re self producing because the scale of it,” he said. “It’s being shot in Hungary, and the scale of it is pretty immense. It has to reflect the level of investment. It’s a big fantasy series with a VFX component to it.”

I really hope we are in for a large-scale, big epic looking show. Really want more fantasy like this on TV.

For example, I hope it's a step-up from Shannara or Legend of the Seeker. I mean those shows were OK and all. I think Shannara started promising but then it seemed to cheap out later on throughout the season.

I know Game of Thrones is pretty much the gold standard these days, but I hope it even looks unique from that series.

 

[TheVileOne]

Lauren S. Hissrich was really talkative lately on her twitter.

It's really nice she brought Sakharov to the show. I became familiar with his work when I watched The Sopranos (my favorite TV series ever) and since then he was a sign of quality for me. He knows his stuff.

Yes, he has a pretty impressive resume in terms of the shows he's worked on. So, while there are some concerns, I feel like from a visual standpoint, the show is going to look topnotch.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And that's what I don't get. It's a simple fact: it's not. If the books were good enough to be adapted into games, I'm sure they're good enough to be adapted to other mediums.

I am a big fan of both. But this would be one of those situation where the adaptation was so much better then the original material, that it is probably going to be an issue for a lot of people. The world of the Witcher was basically unknown until CDPR got their hands on it. What the Witcher game series did, especially with 2 and 3, was establish a look and feel that made it all unique. More unique then the original series. I'd also say their character work was a lot better, which is exactly why it has the rather large, loyal fanbase.

I am personally I am cool with general differences, as long as its really good. But if it isn't and then is making a bunch of strange decisions, yeah...

 

[TheVileOne]

I mean even for the games, it took a while for them to catch on. Barely anyone bought or played the first game. It wasn't until Witcher 2 and the Xbox 360 release that the series really started getting some notoriety. Witcher 3 is when the franchise's popularity really exploded.

It was sort of like a snowball eventually building into an avalanche. I guess my point is, the Witcher's popularity didn't happen overnight. It took a number of years for CDPR's hard work to finally pay off.

And as much as I sort of don't want to admit it, this series is just as much, if not more, for new fans than it is for old ones. Netflix is going to want to try and attract a new audience beyond even the books and games here. I mean if they really are putting $60-80 million into this show, they will want it to play to as large an audience as possible.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

When the first game came out, it was basically known as that buggy game with the collectible sex card game.

 

[TheVileOne]

That's why I desperately want remakes of 1 and 2.

I feel like we should have modern-gen versions of those games. I mean could you imagine getting the first game but with 3's combat and mechanics? I would freak out.

I don't need a huge massive overhaul on 2, but I would like the chance to play it for modern consoles. So 2 can just be a remaster, but 1 I want the remake.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I definitely want a remake of 1. They were actually trying to do that for consoles before releasing 2 on them, but it did not work out at all.

2, I guess they could use the assets from 3 to improve the look. But other then perhaps allowing you to play both paths in one playthrough, the game as it is, is pretty perfect imo. Just release it on the new consoles.

 

[OutOfBoose]

When the first game came out, it was basically known as that buggy game with the collectible sex card game.

To be fair, I remember media and gamers praising the game as something fresh and mature in the stale genre. I was heavy into MMO at that time, so I couldn't play anything else, but I regret skipping it. I discovered the world of Witcher only when 2 ver. 1.2 came out, that fixed crapton of bugs.

When it comes to remasters, I'm perfectly fine with visuals of 2, except for dead eyes. They aren't animated and look just odd. Everything else is consistent with 3. So only the first game truly needs a remake. 2 could use a remaster. Updated rendering, FX, character models, animations.