New Gods. Ava DuVernay to direct

[misslane38]

Yikes...

I know, right? Imagine thinking it's okay to jump into a discussion that's not about you to tell someone how to behave.

Seems to me you have a problem with me stating my opinions strongly. I don't feel I have to write 'in my opinion' after every single thing I say, or equivocate just so you don't feel offended by my choice of language. Perhaps maybe putting me on ignore would be a good idea, if you have an issue with the way I write my posts?

No, I don't have a problem with strong opinions, and there's no need for equivocation. State your opinions loud and proud. I have a problem with someone stating things as facts when they are anything but facts. I don't put people on ignore because I don't need to create a safe space for myself where I never have to experience anything challenging or uncomfortable.

 

[FunkMiller]

I don't see the point in distancing everything from the DCEU to avoid perception issues.
.

Don't you? After a terrible movie that failed utterly at the box office, and is considered to be an abject failure and a laughing stock by a vast majority of the movie-going public? Because unless you have access to a different internet than me, that's the reaction to, and the aftermath of, Justice League.

JL lost millions. It destroyed what little goodwill the audience had left. It had a cgi'ed Superman face, a Batman characterisation that rivalled Clooney's for awfulness, an irritating Flash, a dudebro Aquaman, a terrible cartoonish villain, a nonsensical plot, terrible editing... and poor old Gal Gadot wandering around in the middle of it like the one shining star in a sky of sickly brown ****.

They will move as far away from the DCEU from now on as they possibly can. Unless they're complete ****ing idiots.

...which of course they are, so I'm probably completely wrong.

 

[FunkMiller]

No, I don't have a problem with strong opinions, and there's no need for equivocation. State your opinions loud and proud. I have a problem with someone stating things as facts when they are anything but facts. I don't put people on ignore because I don't need to create a safe space for myself where I never have to experience anything challenging or uncomfortable.

If something is a fact, I'll link to, or reference, the source. Otherwise it's just my opinion. I'm pretty sure people around here are smart enough to realise that. And while we disagree on a lot, I admire your ability to make a good argument, and to not shy away from someone who disagrees with you... if that means anything at all.

 

[Rorschach2012]

I know, right? Imagine thinking it's okay to jump into a discussion that's not about you to tell someone how to behave.



No, I don't have a problem with strong opinions, and there's no need for equivocation. State your opinions loud and proud. I have a problem with someone stating things as facts when they are anything but facts. I don't put people on ignore because I don't need to create a safe space for myself where I never have to experience anything challenging or uncomfortable.

Yeah sorry for intruding on your private conversation not really though, because it's a forum

Count me in as another person that admires your argumentative abilities!

 

[misslane38]

Don't you? After a terrible movie that failed utterly at the box office, and is considered to be an abject failure and a laughing stock by a vast majority of the movie-going public? Because unless you have access to a different internet than me, that's the reaction to, and the aftermath of, Justice League.

JL lost millions. It destroyed what little goodwill the audience had left. It had a cgi'ed Superman face, a Batman characterisation that rivalled Clooney's for awfulness, an irritating Flash, a dudebro Aquaman, a terrible cartoonish villain, a nonsensical plot, terrible editing... and poor old Gal Gadot wandering around in the middle of it like the one shining star in a sky of sickly brown ****.

They will move as far away from the DCEU from now on as they possibly can. Unless they're complete ****ing idiots.

...which of course they are, so I'm probably completely wrong.

There's no way to distance New Gods from the DCEU. As a standalone story, its role will always be ambiguous. But it's still going to be promoted at SDCC along with other DCEU films, the other DCEU actors are going to attend its premiere, and the DC logo is still going to appear before the opening credits. It's going to be a WB/DC film. I don't know what makes you think either implicit or explicit distance from the DCEU continuity will shift perceptions in any kind of substantive way.

What you're talking about merely amounts to changing the mindset of the viewer rather than changing anything else. And if that's your premise, then do you really think the general audience will be capable of embracing declarations of distance from the DCEU as reassuring enough to lay aside all baggage? Do you really believe the general audience will even be that informed? Because I don't think audiences and people in general are that informed nor can compartmentalize like that. Blank slates aren't earned that easily.

And, if as you previously speculated, WB may not even explicitly announce the separate nature of New Gods, then what is the point?

 

[misslane38]

If something is a fact, I'll link to, or reference, the source. Otherwise it's just my opinion. I'm pretty sure people around here are smart enough to realise that. And while we disagree on a lot, I admire your ability to make a good argument, and to not shy away from someone who disagrees with you... if that means anything at all.

You are a worthy opponent, too. But I think you are still misunderstanding me here. As I have said, I took issue with you stating opinions as facts. In other words, that you were posting opinions was obvious, but it wasn't obvious that you saw little difference between your opinions and the truth.

Yeah sorry for intruding on your private conversation not really though, because it's a forum

Forums are for discussions between people. They are not places for other people to shut down conversations in which they are not participating unless they are moderators of said forum.

Count me in as another person that admires your argumentative abilities!

Thanks.

 

[Rorschach2012]

They gotta steer clear of CGI characters as much as possible for this movie if Steppenwolf is any indication of how it will turn out.

I’d rather have Darkseid accomplished through makeup with small CGI enhancements. I think you can capture his rocky appearance through the use of prosthetics

 

[FunkMiller]

And, if as you previously speculated, WB may not even explicitly announce the separate nature of New Gods, then what is the point?

The point is, if you make movies in the future that do not in anyway reference an existing shared universe, then that shared universe is de facto no longer in narrative existence. I feel confident that aside from a couple of actors, and a few visual references, the DCEU as we all know it is deader than Elvis. And this means that in any meaningful way, New Gods will not be part of the DCEU.

 

[Lobo]

They gotta steer clear of CGI characters as much as possible for this movie if Steppenwolf is any indication of how it will turn out.

I’d rather have Darkseid accomplished through makeup with small CGI enhancements. I think you can capture his rocky appearance through the use of prosthetics

Agreed. Go the Hellboy approach.

 

[misslane38]

The point is, if you make movies in the future that do not in anyway reference an existing shared universe, then that shared universe is de facto no longer in narrative existence. I feel confident that aside from a couple of actors, and a few visual references, the DCEU as we all know it is deader than Elvis. And this means that in any meaningful way, New Gods will not be part of the DCEU.

But what does that have to do with affecting audience perception? How does the public separate the DCEU from the non-DCEU? And what if the DCEU is simply something different from the MCU? Maybe a shared universe doesn't have to be defined by the Marvel model.

How exactly will the average person know that the motherboxes and parademons in New Gods aren't linked to the DCEU? How can one speculate about the future of the shared universe when the next two years will have Aquaman, Shazam, Wonder Woman, Suicide Squad, and The Flash with plots and dialogue that we cannot possibly predict? What if the next phase of films are successful for the DCEU and the New Gods is next in line, what would be the impetus to move forward with more separation than connection?

There's simply way too much in flux and unknown right now to make any predictions, particularly bold ones.

 

[blackdragon6]

If public perception is indeed the issue here there's not a lot DC/WB can do about that. No matter how good future DC films are.

 

[blackdragon6]

They gotta steer clear of CGI characters as much as possible for this movie if Steppenwolf is any indication of how it will turn out.

I don't think the CGI was truly finished though. And i think Steppenwolf is kind of a bad measuring stick tbh

 

[Flash525]

I don't know much about this project, nor do I know much about the DC Gods (old or new) but is there much fluff on them? If there is, then great, this may work, but if there isn't, then what separates this film from just another science-fiction/superhero mash?

 

[The Guard]

Not sure what you mean by fluff...

What sets it apart is the themes and the scale. Aside from the epic scale of the concept, which spans worlds and generations, and tends to affect the universe, the story of the New Gods deals with themes of social inequality and is basically about an oppressed people and their unlikely champions.

 

[KevTravels]

what's the budget on this gonna be? 125-150 million?

 

[TheVileOne]

I think you could pull off Darkseid with CG, it just has to be competently done.

I love the New Gods characters, especially Big Barda and Mister Miracle. So I hope they are the central focus.

This would be a chance to showcase a very different type of comic book superhero story onscreen.

 

[Flash525]

Not sure what you mean by fluff...

Source Material.

 

[FunkMiller]

I think you could pull off Darkseid with CG, it just has to be competently done.

I love the New Gods characters, especially Big Barda and Mister Miracle. So I hope they are the central focus.

This would be a chance to showcase a very different type of comic book superhero story onscreen.

I’m hoping they’ll be a bit braver and more original with Darkseid, and make him human. It’s just too damn easy these days to CGI a giant monster and do zero character work, hoping that the size and scale of the animation does the job.

All the general audience is going to do is think a big CGI Darkseid is a rip off of Thanos anyway, so why not try something different, and go with a human being (with possible cg augmentations) who gives a strong and terrifying performance? Lean in on the characterisation, rather than the ones and zeroes.

 

[unholyrevenger]

I’m hoping they’ll be a bit braver and more original with Darkseid, and make him human. It’s just too damn easy these days to CGI a giant monster and do zero character work, hoping that the size and scale of the animation does the job.

All the general audience is going to do is think a big CGI Darkseid is a rip off of Thanos anyway, so why not try something different, and go with a human being (with possible cg augmentations) who gives a strong and terrifying performance? Lean in on the characterisation, rather than the ones and zeroes.

Characterization and CG are not exclusive things

 

[TheVileOne]

I’m hoping they’ll be a bit braver and more original with Darkseid, and make him human. It’s just too damn easy these days to CGI a giant monster and do zero character work, hoping that the size and scale of the animation does the job.

All the general audience is going to do is think a big CGI Darkseid is a rip off of Thanos anyway, so why not try something different, and go with a human being (with possible cg augmentations) who gives a strong and terrifying performance? Lean in on the characterisation, rather than the ones and zeroes.

I'd be fine if they did a combination of the two, but it's not my call.

You can play around with his height, but he's generally about 7-8 feet tall. I mean you could make him shorter I suppose.

I just hope he'd end up looking better than Oscar Isaac as Apocalypse in X-Men: Apocalypse.

 

[AndrewGilkison]

The only person who could've pulled off a CGI less/prosthetic only Darkseid in my opinion was Michael Clark Duncan. But he's dead so...

They should just hire a top notch actor and use the best technology and the best techniques to bring the character to life. Don't be afraid to use CGI. Just make it look great on screen. Make it look real. And treat Darkseid like a real character.

 

[FunkMiller]

Characterization and CG are not exclusive things

I can count on the fingers of one hand the CG characters that have decent, three dimensional characterisations, and they’re all pretty much played by Andy Serkis.

 

[Astro13Zombie]

I can count on the fingers of one hand the CG characters that have decent, three dimensional characterisations, and they’re all pretty much played by Andy Serkis.

Andy Serkis for Darkseid

 

[Lobo]

Actually Winston Duke would work well, but he's already M'Baku.

 

[divan]

I can count on the fingers of one hand the CG characters that have decent, three dimensional characterisations, and they’re all pretty much played by Andy Serkis.

Things is, heavy makeup/prosthetics (which would be needed to pull off Darkseid with practical effects) can be as detrimental to an actor's performance as CG is. I think the only actor I've seen constantly pulling it off if Doug Jones.