New Joe Fridays: Week 44

[Horrorfan]

Iron Man is a *****ebag. It's that simple. Case closed.

Anyone who thinks that needs to stop breathing and wasting my air, and space on my planet.

 

[PhotoJones]

Anyone who thinks that needs to stop breathing and wasting my air, and space on my planet.

...

All right then.

 

[Not Jake]

Anyone who thinks that needs to stop breathing and wasting my air, and space on my planet.

So...it's just you and Millar, then. But he's faking it. Just like you will be, when he tries to procreate with you over and over until evolution gives way to ass pounding, and men can carry children, in their ass. He's kind of fooked like that. Congratulations on your stinkbaby...THE FIRST OF ITS SPECIES. Dun dun dunnnnnn

 

[Horrorfan]

So...it's just you and Millar, then. But he's faking it. Just like you will be, when he tries to procreate with you over and over until evolution gives way to ass pounding, and men can carry children, in their ass. He's kind of fooked like that. Congratulations on your stinkbaby...THE FIRST OF ITS SPECIES. Dun dun dunnnnnn

Do you know wesley dies in angel yet?

 

[Darthphere]

Anyone who thinks that needs to stop breathing and wasting my air, and space on my planet.

Dude, Tony Stark is one of the biggest *****ebags in comics, and this was long before Civil War.

 

[PhotoJones]

Dude, Tony Stark is one of the biggest *****ebags in comics, and this was long before Civil War.

Now THAT is not necessarily true.

 

[Darthphere]

Now THAT is not necessarily true.

So it wasn't Tony Stark going around beating people up because he thought they were stealing his technology?

 

[PhotoJones]

So it wasn't Tony Stark going around beating people up because he thought they were stealing his technology?

That's a weak case, man.

If you wanna play that game, then Hank Pym, T'Challa, Cyclops, Hulk, Peter Parker, Captain America, Ms. Marvel, Daredevil, etc. are all d-bags as well.

I guess you're in the category of fan that believes one story defines a character, huh?

 

[Darthphere]

So faking his death wasn't *****ebaggy?

 

[Kitsune]

Anyone who thinks that needs to stop breathing and wasting my air, and space on my planet.

It must be lonely on your little world. t:

 

[Darthphere]

I guess you're in the category of fan that believes one story defines a character, huh?

I also want to add, that for some characters, this is absolutely true.

 

[Not Jake]

No wonder Herc was an anti-reg

 

[PhotoJones]

I also want to add, that for some characters, this is absolutely true.

only if you want it to be.

 

[Horrorfan]

It must be lonely on your little world. t:

Nope. I keep it idiot free t:

 

[Kitsune]

Nope. I keep it idiot free t:

Apparently not, since you're still on it?

 

[TheCorpulent1]

I guess you're in the category of fan that believes one story defines a character, huh?

There are instances of *****ebagginess beyond just the Armor Wars. After the Armor Wars, Tony deceived his Avengers West Coast teammates by posing as a "new" Iron Man so that he could rejoin the team. Then there was the time he faked his death and kept everyone, including his best friend Rhodey, out of the loop. To add insult to injury, he bequeathed the responsibility of being Iron Man on Rhodey as if it were an honor, and Rhodey was touched that Tony trusted him with it... until he learned that Tony was just recovering behind the scenes and Tony took back the Iron Man identity from Rhodey when he felt better. Plus there's the Kree-Shi'ar War, wherein he creates a schism in the Avengers' ranks by disobeying Cap's orders and leading a team to kill the Supreme Intelligence.

It's not just one isolated story that's defined Tony as a jerk. He has a long history of manipulation, deceit, and outright hostility and recklessness against his fellow heroes and alleged friends. Civil War was just a natural escalation of that, really.

 

[PhotoJones]

There are instances of *****ebagginess beyond just the Armor Wars. After the Armor Wars, Tony deceived his Avengers West Coast teammates by posing as a "new" Iron Man so that he could rejoin the team. Then there was the time he faked his death and kept everyone, including his best friend Rhodey, out of the loop. To add insult to injury, he bequeathed the responsibility of being Iron Man on Rhodey as if it were an honor, and Rhodey was touched that Tony trusted him with it... until he learned that Tony was just recovering behind the scenes and Tony took back the Iron Man identity from Rhodey when he felt better. Plus there's the Kree-Shi'ar War, wherein he creates a schism in the Avengers' ranks by disobeying Cap's orders and leading a team to kill the Supreme Intelligence.

It's not just one isolated story that's defined Tony as a jerk. He has a long history of manipulation, deceit, and outright hostility and recklessness against his fellow heroes and alleged friends. Civil War was just a natural escalation of that, really.

I see what you're saying, and I'm familiar with all those evants, but I really do it differently. I see Tony as different kind of hero. And let me just say that even for the people that do see him as a d-bag, that shouldn't invalidate the herioc things that he's done in his career as Iron Man.

My Iron Man is a combination of the Layton years, and Busiek's run after the Heroes Reborn crap.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

There's no doubt he's still a hero. It doesn't take someone who's always pure and noble to be a hero. If it did, about 3/4ths of the Marvel heroes wouldn't be heroes at all. I'm just saying he's a dick in addition to being a hero. The way he goes about things tends to be very high-handed and he rarely ever factors others' feelings or reactions into his actions. He's very self-possessed. None of that interferes with his being a hero in my mind.

 

[PhotoJones]

There's no doubt he's still a hero. It doesn't take someone who's always pure and noble to be a hero. If it did, about 3/4ths of the Marvel heroes wouldn't be heroes at all. I'm just saying he's a dick in addition to being a hero. The way he goes about things tends to be very high-handed and he rarely ever factors others' feelings or reactions into his actions. He's very self-possessed. None of that interferes with his being a hero in my mind.

I see him as someone who's trying to do the right thing, and his intentions are pure. The difference betwen that and a Magneto or a Dr. Doom character is that while THEY think they're intentions are good, the fact is they are not.

Tony's human and that makes him fallible. Look at Peter Parker. He's slapped his wife in the past, and he really does nothing to stop the Black Cat's advances. Does that make him a turd? No, it makes him human.

EDIT - Alright, slapping your wife DOES make you a turd, but it's been forgiven. I pretend it never happened.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Given that it happened during the Clone Saga, Marvel's pretending right there with you.

It's not Iron Man's intentions I question. I know those are pure. It's his methods that are a little less than sparkly clean.

 

[PhotoJones]

Given that it happened during the Clone Saga, Marvel's pretending right there with you.

It's not Iron Man's intentions I question. I know those are pure. It's his methods that are a little less than sparkly clean.

Right on both accounts. The difference, however, is that while I see his methods as being sketchy, I know he's only doing it because he thinks he has to. Who knows, maybe he DOES have to.

It's funny that I like Iron Man as a character, and I do think his intentions are noble at the same time as disagreeing with him completely. I'd be an anti-reg guy in a heartbeat.

 

[Dread]

There are instances of *****ebagginess beyond just the Armor Wars. After the Armor Wars, Tony deceived his Avengers West Coast teammates by posing as a "new" Iron Man so that he could rejoin the team. Then there was the time he faked his death and kept everyone, including his best friend Rhodey, out of the loop. To add insult to injury, he bequeathed the responsibility of being Iron Man on Rhodey as if it were an honor, and Rhodey was touched that Tony trusted him with it... until he learned that Tony was just recovering behind the scenes and Tony took back the Iron Man identity from Rhodey when he felt better. Plus there's the Kree-Shi'ar War, wherein he creates a schism in the Avengers' ranks by disobeying Cap's orders and leading a team to kill the Supreme Intelligence.

It's not just one isolated story that's defined Tony as a jerk. He has a long history of manipulation, deceit, and outright hostility and recklessness against his fellow heroes and alleged friends. Civil War was just a natural escalation of that, really.

You forgot:

- Iron Man kept his secret identity hidden from the Avengers teammates for years, making Cap sometimes believe he was a "mercenary" because officially he was "Stark's bodyguard".

- (one of my favorites), Stark wooed Jan despite the fact that Pym, estranged, was still interested in her. Soon as that marriage was in jeopardy he leapt in like a shark before any divorce ink was wet.

- When Cap fell out of grace with the government and became "the Captain", he lost his shield, but Stark made him a new one as a "gift", which essentially was a bribe when he later wanted Steve to tow some lines for him. Cap "respectfully" declined (he dumped the shield on Tony's lap, which had to sting).

CW was an extention of that *****ebaggery, but a very DRAMATIC one. There are differences between "shades of grey" and creating cyborg-clones and merrily employing murderers as footsoldiers. Hell, I'd argue that Civil War has made Iron Man more of a *****e than Batman ever was (and Batman all but bragged when Ra's was using his own "protocols" against the JLA). Batman never, say, made some bastard Bizarro clone just in case Superman or one of his merry family went astray. He never freed a few thugs from Arkham to help him jolly-stomp the Outsiders or something. He never threw allies into a jail into another dimension without trail or hope of one until they submit to him; hell, if anything, Batman's biggest problem is he obeys the law too much and allows maniacs like Joker back into mental hospitals that can never hold him long. The biggest anti-Superman "insurance" that Batman has, Luthor's Kryptonite ring, he recieved WILLINGLY from Superman.

CW all but introduced the idea that Iron Man is incapable of making true "friends" that he cannot control, and has been planning for the day he may have to take on his "allies" since the Avengers first founded.

Still, Reed got it worse. He NEVER had that history of dick-ness.

 

[Upset Spideyfan]

You forgot:

- Iron Man kept his secret identity hidden from the Avengers teammates for years, making Cap sometimes believe he was a "mercenary" because officially he was "Stark's bodyguard".

Not to disagree with everything that's being said here (nice to see IM brought up and not have it devolve into a series of: IRON MAN MUST DIE! posts) but I don't know if this makes him a *****e. I mean Thor was doing the same thing with his Donald Blake persona.

 

[Horrorfan]

Apparently not, since you're still on it?

That's really the best you could do?

Stevie Wonder saw that one coming man

 

[TheCorpulent1]

You forgot:

- Iron Man kept his secret identity hidden from the Avengers teammates for years, making Cap sometimes believe he was a "mercenary" because officially he was "Stark's bodyguard".

You can't really fault Tony for that. Spider-Man, Thor, and many, many other heroes have kept their identities hidden from their teammates, on the Avengers and other teams. In fact, the need to respect members' wish to preserve their secret ID's became so pronounced that the Avengers developed a special identifier device that could scan members and confirm that they were who they said they were without revealing their identities.