New Live Action Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles Movie In The Works? - Part 5

[Zaron]

That's just it, it will do well. The marvel branding won't let it flop but people are getting carried away with these predictions.

Marvel trailers always look great, their films often end up dividing the comic book fans and going over mostly well with the GA. 2013 was a master class on this, it's not as crazy as the dc situation but it happens, Avengers aside.

I wouldn't say Marvel films are very divisive. There's a certain level of whining from fans (which is unavoidable) but Iron Man 3 is the only film to truly be all that divisive, and even that film made an effort to win back good faith with their fanbase with "All Hail the King." Generally speaking, Marvel has been doing a fantastic job of walking the line between pleasing existing fans while keeping things appealing to the GA.

Secondly, Avengers and it's direct sequel not withstanding, these marvel films don't exactly break the bank, openings or total. And this will be Marvel's hardest sell to the GA bar none. Both in terms or star power and brand recognition. Quite the executive decision to have two of the biggest stars in the world right now only doing voice work...
Call me simple minded but Cooper and Diesel in the roles of certain other members would have been
I mean seriously!

While I agree that those two in voice acting roles is going to reduce the pull their presence would have otherwise had, Vin Diesel as Groot is probably one of the wisest casting decisions since J.K. Simmons as Jameson, and Rocket has a lot of potential to be this movie's show-stealer, similar to Jack Sparrow in POTC. GotG is a tough sell only in the sense that it's an extremely ambitious concept. If done well, it will be one of Marvel's most interesting and marketable films to date. I mean, who doesn't want a toy of a talking raccoon with a machine gun? I want twelve.

This idea that TMNT will open in second(or third) place assumes alot. It assumes the turtles will open lower than GoG's second weeked drop off. Both thor films have hit that 35mill range in their second weekends. This is to say the turtles will open less than 35mill? This is to say that GoG does Thor numbers. Quite the assumptions.

Is that what people are really thinking here? As bad as august has been for tent poles, and ignoring that GoG is itself an august release, I would imagine TMNT doing Apes/GiJoe/Bourne3 numbers if not higher. Not 'we're the millers' numbers.

Not only are you tossing out a claim no one has made (that TMNT will open second) you're predicting the box office take of a film that hasn't even released a trailer, while also criticizing people for making predictions about a film that has.

The films will compete, to be sure. I just think Avengers has skewed the perspective on just how taken the GA will be with Guardians. The internet went nuts for Super8 and Prim in a similar way. The marketing caters to net imo.

Both films will probably end up doing The Wolverine like numbers and the one with the best overseas brand recognition will take the total.

I think you're making just as many assumptions as anyone else in this forum.

 

[Marvin]

I wouldn't say Marvel films are very divisive. There's a certain level of whining from fans (which is unavoidable) but Iron Man 3 is the only film to truly be all that divisive, and even that film made an effort to win back good faith with their fanbase with "All Hail the King." Generally speaking, Marvel has been doing a fantastic job of walking the line between pleasing existing fans while keeping things appealing to the GA.

I said their trailers come out to wide appeal from fans, and their films come out and it's often divisional among fans(let alone the GA). Call it whining from fans or not, many of them claimed too much humor from the last thor film. How many of them felt that way when the trailer came out? Same deal with IM3. The fans were gaga and unified when the trailer dropped then the films comes out and division, same with TIH, IM2, and the first thor and cap to a degree.. same with star trek2. It happens and it's been happening with Marvel. Point being, I don't expect the trend to end here. Right now we are in the trailer phase with GoG and fans are acting accordingly. All I said was it's not a sure thing. Not enough for folks to be condemning it's competition due to trailer response from fans whilst ignoring the pattern(with marvel).

I mean, who doesn't want a toy of a talking raccoon with a machine gun? I want twelve.

I think you are overselling just how massive a novelty such a thing will be. I heard similar about the Prim robots becoming forum handles. A raccoon with a gun...time will tell I guess.

Not only are you tossing out a claim no one has made (that TMNT will open second) you're predicting the box office take of a film that hasn't even released a trailer, while also criticizing people for making predictions about a film that has.

I was actually responding to 'TurtleFan' and the claim he made on the last page.

I think you're making just as many assumptions as anyone else in this forum.

Further more, I never meant to, or remember saying anything is wrong with making box office predictions or assumptions. That's what this place is about. I said those ones are based on faulty thinking. Then I went on to present a line of thinking I personally found to be far less faulty.

Tell me, whose line of thinking do you side with? Or what is your own.

 

[ThePhantasm]

 

[Astro13Zombie]

 

[SaltyPopcorn]

By no means am I an expert with box office and determining whether a film will do well or not, but I have to say that I'm not very concerned about TMNT failing to bring in big numbers at the box office. I worked at my local Toys R Us through the summer and fall last year and from what I saw, TMNT is a hot commodity again. Both children who love the current TMNT on Nickelodeon and adults who loved TMNT when they were young will flock to this movie. I think the fact that this will be a live action film, as opposed to the 2007 film, will be a huge advantage. I don't have a gross amount in mind or anything like that, but I just can't see this failing. Even with GotG opening the week before. I think people seriously underestimate the TMNT, which amazes me considering how big they are right now.

If I'm wrong, I'll gladly eat my words, but I think TMNT is going to be huge.

 

[Zaron]

I said their trailers come out to wide appeal from fans, and their films come out and it's often divisional among fans(let alone the GA). Call it whining from fans or not, many of them claimed too much humor from the last thor film. How many of them felt that way when the trailer came out? Same deal with IM3. The fans were gaga and unified when the trailer dropped then the films comes out and division, same with TIH, IM2, and the first thor and cap to a degree.. same with star trek2. It happens and it's been happening with Marvel. Point being, I don't expect the trend to end here. Right now we are in the trailer phase with GoG and fans are acting accordingly. All I said was it's not a sure thing. Not enough for folks to be condemning it's competition due to trailer response from fans whilst ignoring the pattern(with marvel).

I guess we've just come across different sets of reactions, then. I mean, I haven't looked at polls or anything, I'm just going on the reactions I've seen. There's complaints (and whining was probably too derisive a word) but generally speaking I don't hear a lot of "Oh I hate [Marvel movie]" but instead I hear a lot of "[Marvel movie] made a few changes I didn't like, but overall I really liked it." But that's entirely dependant on my social circle, really.

I think you are overselling just how massive a novelty such a thing will be. I heard similar about the Prim robots becoming forum handles. A raccoon with a gun...time will tell I guess.

It's entirely possible I am, but I'm also just going on the conversations I've had with people offline. I've shown the trailer to a number of people who normally don't even watch Marvel movies, and aside from the humor coming from Star Lord, people mostly want to see more of Rocket and Groot. The thing I was most worried about alienating people is looking like it may have been done well enough to be the main attraction. Again, though, this is based only off the trailer, which is just the first sliver of their marketing campaign, so it's way too early for me to stand behind any predictions.

I was actually responding to 'TurtleFan' and the claim he made on the last page.

Oh, I'm sorry, I totally missed that. And yeah, I disagree with him. I think TMNT is being horribly underpromoted, (though I think the reason is likely to be that filming went over budget and they're trying to make it up with a less expensive approach to marketing) and even I don't think it will open second. I think GotG will be some really tough competition, but even in the unlikely event that TMNT turns out to be a total flop, the brand's presence alone should be strong enough to open at #1. It's going to be interesting see a set of unknown characters backed by an extremely popular brand compete with well-known characters making a long-awaited return to live-action. That's why I'm so eager to see TMNT start promoting, both because it'll give us a clearer idea of the direction this film is going, and the longer they give GotG to generate buzz, the more they lose their biggest advantage: brand recognition.

 

[Lantern Venom]

While I agree that those two in voice acting roles is going to reduce the pull their presence would have otherwise had, Vin Diesel as Groot is probably one of the wisest casting decisions since J.K. Simmons as Jameson, and Rocket has a lot of potential to be this movie's show-stealer, similar to Jack Sparrow in POTC. GotG is a tough sell only in the sense that it's an extremely ambitious concept. If done well, it will be one of Marvel's most interesting and marketable films to date. I mean, who doesn't want a toy of a talking raccoon with a machine gun? I want twelve.
.

I certainly don't want any Rocket Raccoon items, but I do want the other GotG figures. My main objection to RR is that he never seems to fit in the Marvel Universe, as is the case for many cutesy animal characters in Marvel and DC comics.

I've been a fan of TMNT since the mid-80s, and I'm excited to see them return both in animation and live-action. One advantage they have over GotG is that they exist in their own universe and won't be evaluated on how they'll eventually interact with a group of more well-known heroes.

 

[Zaron]

I certainly don't want any Rocket Raccoon items, but I do want the other GotG figures. My main objection to RR is that he never seems to fit in the Marvel Universe, as is the case for many cutesy animal characters in Marvel and DC comics. .

Like I said, it's all in the execution. I don't think Rocket feels out of place in the trailer. It helps that his design is fantastic and it's set in an alien world where non-human appearances are more common.

I've been a fan of TMNT since the mid-80s, and I'm excited to see them return both in animation and live-action. One advantage they have over GotG is that they exist in their own universe and won't be evaluated on how they'll eventually interact with a group of more well-known heroes.

And how exactly is that an advantage? There are people who are going to check out GotG solely on the basis that they like the MCU films and don't want to miss a film in the series. How exactly does that work to TMNT's advantage? If anything, it makes it way easier for audiences torn between the two to put off seeing TMNT.

 

[spund]

^People do it online all the time, it is kind of an annoyance. Like people that constantly spell Lois Louis.

I think it's hilarious when people say "Ralph" and "Louis"....and then someone always corrects them and it gets even funnier. I totally get why people are annoyed by it....it's just always entertaining when I see it happen. I'm easily amused I guess, lol.

 

[Marvin]

Having finally read a bit,
In the original comic strip Splinter really was just a pet rat and the Shredder as we know him was just the american based foot faction leader and brother of the Oroku Nagi in japan. Nagi, the one who had all that drama with Yosi....

Who knew. Fans really should pick their battles, I fear the direction this film is taking isn't so far fetched. I find myself really liking the casting(especially splinter) now.

Also never knew how much this borrowed from DareDevil before now.

 

[Zaron]

Having finally read a bit,
In the original comic strip Splinter really was just a pet rat and the Shredder as we know him was just the american based foot faction leader and brother of the Oroku Nagi in japan. Nagi, the one who had all that drama with Yosi....

I figured this was pretty common knowledge, actually. It's not too far from the original movie's origin.

Also never knew how much this borrowed from DareDevil before now.

Yep.

 

[Marvin]

I figured this was pretty common knowledge, actually. It's not too far from the original movie's origin.

It couldn't be all that common. This idea that Splinter need be played by asian for example...

Yep.

I was actually thinking The Foot vs The Hand and Splinter vs Stick.

 

[Kal-El.9859]

It's common knowledge, or should be, for the fans of the comics. Not so much for the casual passerby

 

[Lantern Venom]

And how exactly is that an advantage? There are people who are going to check out GotG solely on the basis that they like the MCU films and don't want to miss a film in the series. How exactly does that work to TMNT's advantage? If anything, it makes it way easier for audiences torn between the two to put off seeing TMNT.

TMNT can play by its own rules and set its own tone. GotG has a standard set by movies that have already been successful with characters of much greater fame. Initial interest because of the MCU might backfire if audiences feel like it doesn't mesh with what they already know of the MCU.

 

[Zaron]

TMNT can play by its own rules and set its own tone. GotG has a standard set by movies that have already been successful with characters of much greater fame. Initial interest because of the MCU might backfire if audiences feel like it doesn't mesh with what they already know of the MCU.

There's definitely some truth in what you're saying, to be sure, but I don't see that as an advantage as much as a neutral difference. GotG doesn't really have to fit any specific tone, since each MCU series has a unique feel. It just has to measure up to a certain level of quality, which I imagine is pressure they would feel no matter what. TMNT has a massive advantage in that people actually know who the hell they are, but with with audience familiarity also comes higher expectations, since people will be able to more easily detect if a character is handled poorly. GotG could take a steaming dump on the source material and few people would know. As long as it's an entertaining movie, they won't get any backlash. I think this is actually a big reason Transformers is so successful a series and so vocally hated at the same time. They're incredibly huge action-packed films, but they're not overly concerned with pleasing existing fans, which they can get away with, being that TF is really first and foremost a toyline.

It couldn't be all that common. This idea that Splinter need be played by asian for example...

I was actually thinking The Foot vs The Hand and Splinter vs Stick.

I don't really see the connection. Splinter's origin was altered in the cartoon to be less complicated, but overall it wasn't very heavily changed. Changing his background to being American is a much bigger change than just combining Yoshi and his pet rat into one character. I do think it's a little too early to make any solid claims about how heavily Splinter's origin has been changed, considering how little we actually know about this movie at the moment, but it's going to really bother me if his Japanese origins are downplayed.

And the Cracked link is just meant to be an entertaining read. Eastman and Laird were big Daredevil fans, and it shows in a lot of ways.

 

[Zaron]

BTW wasn't there supposed to be something dropping this month in a magazine? I thought I remembered someone making that claim. I haven't heard anything about that in a while.

 

[Marvin]

I don't really see the connection. Splinter's origin was altered in the cartoon to be less complicated, but overall it wasn't very heavily changed. Changing his background to being American is a much bigger change than just combining Yoshi and his pet rat into one character. I do think it's a little too early to make any solid claims about how heavily Splinter's origin has been changed, considering how little we actually know about this movie at the moment, but it's going to really bother me if his Japanese origins are downplayed.

I'm talking about why anyone would think this character(a rat though and through) needs to be or sound asian in accent. I kinda get it with what they did and are doing in the animated origins, but with the rat origin...The casting is great.
Especially after that sifu era.

 

[Zaron]

I'm talking about why anyone would think this character(a rat though and through) needs to be or sound asian in accent.

Because human or rat, his role in the story is the turtles' sensai as well as father. He's able to pass down such knowledge because regardless which origin you prefer, both involve him spending many years in Japan studying ninjutsu. For his origin to be so profoundly Japanese and then to have him talk like a New Yorker would be incredibly out of place. He'll go from sounding like a dedicated master of martial arts to the guy running Jerry's Karate Chop Class down the street every Thursday.

 

[Marvin]

Because human or rat, his role in the story is the turtles' sensai as well as father. He's able to pass down such knowledge because regardless which origin you prefer, both involve him spending many years in Japan studying ninjutsu. For his origin to be so profoundly Japanese and then to have him talk like a New Yorker would be incredibly out of place. He'll go from sounding like a dedicated master of martial arts to the guy running Jerry's Karate Chop Class down the street every Thursday.

Ignoring the stereotypical territory of this conversation, Asian Sensei's can sound like anything, especially when they've acclimated to the west. What's more, all that matters is what not impossible, because in a movie(and people tend to miss this), the improbable is abundant. To think people have the right to question how much sense pertains to the accent of a 'asian rat' but not to question that it's even talking in the first place. I digress.

I doubt he'll sound like 'Jerry's Karate Chop Class' or some heavy new york stereotype like various characters in the original film, but like I said, he doesn't need to be or sound asian at all. I don't expect any non asian people that spend years training learning asia in asia to sound anyway but sensible and intelligent.

Again Shifu, voiced by Hoffman. (spoilers for panda)
[YT]qmCVuUnezng[/YT]
Seems like a very michael bay sentiment to have an 'asian' character sound like an 'asian' character.

 

[Zaron]

Ignoring the stereotypical territory of this conversation, Asian Sensei's can sound like anything, especially when they've acclimated to the west. What's more, all that matters is what not impossible, because in a movie(and people tend to miss this), the improbable is abundant. To think people have the right to question how much sense pertains to the accent of a 'asian rat' but not to question that it's even talking in the first place. I digress.

I doubt he'll sound like 'Jerry's Karate Chop Class' or some heavy new york stereotype like various characters in the original film, but like I said, he doesn't need to be or sound asian at all. I don't expect any non asian people that spend years training learning asia in asia to sound anyway but sensible and intelligent.

Again Shifu, voiced by Hoffman. (spoilers for panda)
[YT]qmCVuUnezng[/YT]
Seems like a very michael bay sentiment to have an 'asian' character sound like an 'asian' character.

Okay, first things first. When exactly did Splinter spend all this time assimilating to western culture? Almost all of his life in America is spent in the sewers, not palling around with New York natives. The turtles, on the other hand, have grown up in NYC, obsessed with the human culture around them, which is why it makes sense for them to sound like New Yorkers. Splinter tends to keep to himself, spending his time meditating and practicing martial arts. In fact, that's entirely why its so hilarious when he watches American soap operas or says, "Cowabunga!", because he has such an extreme disinterest in western culture. It's because his body is in New York but his heart remains in Japan, because he didn't leave his home by choice. You can talk all day about it being within the realm of possibility that all of this results in a white New Yorker who happens to teach his sons ninjutsu, but all that you're displaying is extreme ignorance of the basics of the character.

And it's not Michael Bay to want the Japanese character to be portrayed by a Japanese actor. It would be Michael Bay to make him a white guy imitating a stereotypical representation of Asian culture, possibly making jokes about how his transformation into a rat must be karma coming back for eating so many cats.

 

[Marvin]

The turtles and this is an assumption, have spent just as much time in american sewers as the rat(given they probably don't head up to surface but soak it in vicariously), and given the average rat life span,let's be generous and say 4 years, it's a pretty safe bet to assume splinter has spent a great bloody deal more time in America than anywhere else. To answer your question directly: I'd say splinter has spent 16 plus years in new york and with a mutated brain that allows him to learn at a far higher level than before and far less than that in Asia as an above average rodent. However my point really wasn't about the assimilation though it seems it could have been. I see no reason for the rat to have an asian accent. It presumes that if my cat was given the capacity to speak tomorrow she would sound Torontonian, when really, the jury should be out on what a talking cat should sound like, maybe they have their own accents......What's more, she is given the capacity to speak tomorrow just as she arrives in new york and after about 7 times her times spent here, she sounds like me... I'd say there is room to argue.

I'm not being ignorant to any basics, rather not being a slave to the conventions, which themselves are based on nothing but that which has come before. Old men that don't watch tv or hang out on instagram would also react a certain way to soap's or 'cowabunga'. This has nothing to do with him being or sounding asian but simply being out of touch with what his kids are into. Given his kids are very young and even overly trying to be hip(see mike), he's bound to come off 'detached' that doesn't mean he would sound asian, just means he has that 'old' timer reaction to his kids passions trope. What's next he only eats asian food and has an adverse reaction to this thing called pizza....

As for Michael Bay's inclinations. What you are describing(and forgive me cause I'm not familiar with the production history) sounds precisely like the approach of the original film. The one in which Kevin Clash in the role of splinter was acting as kids think asian people act. Imagine my surprise when I met my asian friends parents.
There's a reason this misconception bay's films are racially insensitive exists, it tends to have to do with the roles he gives minorities, not so much what he has non minorities do. Bay casting an asian as this character would be akin to bay casting an asian as a transformer(in his own films)...something he would do and wouldn't go over well detractors. What he should do is go the optimus route and just cast someone that can lend a weary and intelligent performance regardless of race for the character itself should is racially ambiguous to begin with. Again like they did with Panda.

Not all people, let alone creatures from that part of the world sound 'asian'. Period. Just as not all of my pals from new york sound...etc. Something hopefully even bay understands. To assume the alternative is to practice ignorance imo. Given all the voice actors for shredder, have been black or non asian(even live action), I suspect even fans appreciate this fact.

Lastly, for a guy whose heart is back in asia and not so much anywhere else, those are some interestingly non asian names he choose for the turtles. Maybe he should have stuck with Goku/Yoko Ono/Wantanabe/Naruto.

 

[Donut]

BTW wasn't there supposed to be something dropping this month in a magazine? I thought I remembered someone making that claim. I haven't heard anything about that in a while.

Don't believe everything you read. No matter who it is from

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

I don't consider what the previous voice-actors who played Splinter did as trying to sound like a stereotypical Asian man, it was more they were trying to sound like a wise old sage. The voice they chose came from, more than likely, watching old kung-fu movies where there is a wise sensei or older warrior who aids the younger warrior in becoming the top fighter or defeats the bad guys alongside him.

If Woodburn just sounds like himself and not do a voice that makes him sound like he has had years of experience let alone Japanese it will take a lot of people out of the movie because and this does not just come from the cartoons, movies, or videogames, but as a whole we have, with our imaginations, always have seen and heard Splinter as that--- an elderly Japanese man.

I think a valid point has been made that you don't want Splinter to sound like a New Yorker. To me, Raph has always worked as the one who sounds like a New Yorker while the other Turtles have their individual personalities and voices.

But seeing as, besides a leaked set video, we really haven't gotten to hear the Turtles much or heck even Splinter's voice, it all comes down to the trailer. If the trailer that premieres before "Captain America: The Winter Soldier" doesn't get the asses in the seats then I don't expect much from this movie.

Hell, you would think they would have cardboard standees at movie theaters of each of the Turtles or the other characters, but nothing. Bad sign.

 

[Stringer]

The marketing for this movie is a joke. I'm not even sure I care about it anymore.

 

[Zaron]

Don't believe everything you read. No matter who it is from

Not so much that I believe it as I don't remember the specifics. I thought it was supposed to be in the first half of March (which is only about 4 more days) but I could be wrong.