No more R-rated superhero/tentpole films for WB

[Evil Twin]

As for R rated comic properties left, let see. DC/Vertigo/Wildstorm has:

Suicide Squad
The Authority
Stormwatch
WildCATS
Swamp Thing done right
Green Arrow during the Mike Grell period (arguably his most classic time)
The Losers
100 Bullets
Any arc of Our Army at War done right.
Kingdom Come
Vigilante II (Okay, he's just DC's Punisher, but still)
A Superman Movie based on Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow
The Kate Archer Manhunter
Anything where Deathstroke has more than a background cameo (Unless it's another Glenn Murakami Teen Titans animated movie)
Y: The Last Man
Warlord
John Sable: Freelance
Starslayer
American Flagg!
The Dark Knight Returns
Sandman III

That's enough to keep WB busy 'till the cows come home, or at least for six years or so.

What's so R-rated about Kingdom Come, Manhunter, or WildCATs?

And, believe it or not, it's possible to do a hard hitting War movie without resorting to Saving Private Ryan levels of gore. Really, Saving Private Ryan is the outlier, not the norm. Would a Sgt. Rock movie really be a disappointment if it was only as hard hitting as A Bridge Too Far, The Big Red One (original version), All Quiet on the Western Front, Valkyrie, or Gallipoli?

Other than blood, what's so R-rated about TDKR? Much of it's violence is by suggestion, rather than being graphically shown. Heck, one of the most violent fights made it into cartoon form pretty much intact.

Also, American Flagg!, Jon Sable, Freelance, and Starslayer aren't DC/Vertigo/Wildstorm properties. I doubt Jon Sable needs a $100 million budget either.

Do you really think there's going to be a Superman movie based on "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow"? Ever?

 

[Ben Breeck]

What's so R-rated about Kingdom Come, Manhunter, or WildCATs?

Magog flattening Kansas and the Oklahoma Panhandle, the final battle with Superman going gonzo, Kate signing her handle in her victim's blood?

(and those are just off the top of my head)

snip.

Also, American Flagg!, Jon Sable, Freelance, and Starslayer aren't DC/Vertigo/Wildstorm properties. I doubt Jon Sable needs a $100 million budget either.

If I remember correctly, WB bought up the rights to most of First Comics' properties*, so technically, the're in the same family, last I checked.

Do you really think there's going to be a Superman movie based on "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow"? Ever?

I'd much rather see that, then, say, some of the cheesier Silver Age stuff.

*Miracleman was a liscensed reprint, and furthermore, Alan Moore owns most of the relevant storylines due to how British copyright law works.

 

[Evil Twin]

Magog flattening Kansas and the Oklahoma Panhandle, the final battle with Superman going gonzo, Kate signing her handle in her victim's blood?

(and those are just off the top of my head)

snip.


If I remember correctly, WB bought up the rights to most of First Comics' properties*, so technically, the're in the same family, last I checked.



I'd much rather see that, then, say, some of the cheesier Silver Age stuff.

*Miracleman was a liscensed reprint, and furthermore, Alan Moore owns most of the relevant storylines due to how British copyright law works.

The Kingdom Come stuff is basically bloodless. Like the Watchmen stuff that was perfectly acceptable for tv commercials. And the Manhunter stuff is non-integral to the character. Or a Decepticon fighting with the military. If Wolverine can be PG-13, there's no reason the vast majority of the above listed can't be PG-13. Shock value isn't integral to much of the above list.

Sable, Flagg!, and Starslayer are creator owned. IDW is reprinting Sable. Image/Dynamic Forces reprinted Flagg! DC's never bought the First line, because there is no First line, it was basically creator owned stuff.

 

[The Major]

The Kate Archer Manhunter

Her surname's Spencer.

 

[The Major]

^WildCATS could be PG-13. They already made a Saturday morning series about it.

All that means is that they toned it down enough for a cartoon. It doesn't change the fact how violent the property is. IIRC Robocop got the same treatment for his cartoon.

 

[Ben Breeck]

Her surname's Spencer.

I'll Change it then.

 

[hippie_hunter]

As for R rated comic properties left, let see. DC/Vertigo/Wildstorm has:

Suicide Squad
The Authority
Stormwatch
WildCATS
Swamp Thing done right
Green Arrow during the Mike Grell period (arguably his most classic time)
The Losers
100 Bullets
Any arc of Our Army at War done right.
Kingdom Come
Vigilante II (Okay, he's just DC's Punisher, but still)
A Superman Movie based on Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow
The Kate Spencer Manhunter
Anything where Deathstroke has more than a background cameo (Unless it's another Glenn Murakami Teen Titans animated movie)
Y: The Last Man
Warlord
John Sable: Freelance
Starslayer
American Flagg!
The Dark Knight Returns
Sandman III

That's enough to keep WB busy 'till the cows come home, or at least for six years or so.

*I refuse to include Frank Miller's The Dark Night Strikes Again or his run on All Star Batman: He seems to have done these books just to give DC (and the fans) the middle finger. (At least, that's the best conclusion I can come up with.) I also don't count Miracleman because Alan Moore will fight tooth and nail to keep his storylines from becoming movies, and Neil Gaiman's stuff assumes that you already know about what Alan Moore did to work.

1. A lot of those aren't even superhero films.

2. A lot of those aren't ever going to be made.

3. None of those are tentpole films.

 

[The Major]

1. A lot of those aren't even superhero films.

He was talking about comic properties, not just super-heroes.

2. A lot of those aren't ever going to be made.

Many never thought Watchmen was ever going to get made, either. Yet here we are.

Discounting comic properties since WB hasn't gotten around to given them attention just because WB hasn't gotten around to given them attention is a self-fulfilling prophecy. It's something WB needs to stop doing if they want to tap into the DC's full potential. They haven't came close to accomplishing that at all.

3. None of those are tentpole films.

Many could be IMO.

 

[NotFadeAway]

My Green Arrow movie would be borderline R because it would be atleast have the feel of the Mike Grell period.

I've honestly always believed Green Arrow would be best used as an HBO or Showtime television series.

 

[Evil Twin]

I had a long screed which was lost. Let's see if I can summarize it.

There's no real reason to make a WildCATS, Stormwatch, or The Authority movie except to make money. And it's certainly doubtful that any of them would support a tentpole budget in the first place.

Manhunter, Vigilante, 100 Bullets, a Grell era Green Arrow, The Losers, and Jon Sable don't need tentpole budgets. It's doubtful than any of those, except possibly Green Arrow, would make back its money with a tentpole budget. It's perfectly possible that The Losers will be R-rated as WB has never said or implied that it's out of the R-rated movie business.

Moore era Swamp Thing probably requires a tentpole budget, and that's an iffy proposition for a horror movie. What's the last R-rated horror movie that made $100 million? We'll see how Mountains of Madness does.

Nobody is making Kingdom Come or Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow anytime soon. I disagree that either require an R-rating in the first place. I think people misunderstand TDKR as well. Miller implies a lot more than he shows in terms of violence, and it's not R-rated in any other respect. It's much closer to TDK in terms of violence than it is to Robocop.

Starslayer or Warlord won't make any money with a tentpole budget. I'm doubtful of Flagg! or Sandman either, although you can do them cheaper.

I fully expect Suicide Squad to be PG-13 like Live Free or Die Hard or TDK. Nothing really will be lost as the series is about dysfunctional characters, intrigue, and action more than shock value. Believe it or not, but you can shoot characters in a PG-13 movie.

We'll see on Sgt. Rock. I'm expecting PG-13, with a level of violence like The Big Red One original version, and a relatively modest budget. The only a couple War movies that have really made money in the last 20 years with Saving Private Ryan being the only $100+ million earner.

Preacher is an R. Shock value is part of its appeal. But it's not going to be made for $100 million either.

To me, Y: The Last Man is the only real quandry. I'd like to hear Brian K. Vaughn's thoughts. I think it's the sexuality aspects that are the biggest deal. I'm guessing though that the characters and themes can be successfully conveyed in a PG-13 setting without the loss of anything important. A rating doesn't determine how adult something really is. Y requires an adult mentality, but it doesn't require adolescent titilation or shock value.

 

[dnno1]

My Green Arrow movie would be borderline R because it would be atleast have the feel of the Mike Grell period.

I've honestly always believed Green Arrow would be best used as an HBO or Showtime television series.

If it is pure violence or horror and no sex/nudity, it probably has a chance. Outside of that, an R rating is the kiss of death. I am not going to mention an R-rated comedy here since it would be inappropriate for a Green Arrow film.

 

[Ben Breeck]

Moore era Swamp Thing probably requires a tentpole budget, and that's an iffy proposition for a horror movie. What's the last R-rated horror movie that made $100 million? We'll see how Mountains of Madness does.

Depending on your definition of Horror Movie, we have The Exoricst, Terminator II, Hannibal, and Scary Movie, and those are are in the Box Office Mojo top 20.

Actually, those are conservative numbers because Box Office Mojo doesn't include the foreign gross numbers.

By total gross, Watchmen has already made back its budget, and still has yet to open in Japan, India, or much of South America

 

[04nbod]

Supposedly the only thing we'll lose if TS goes PG-13 is a topless Moon Bloodgood scene but I think we can do without it.

well that seems like it really adds to the story

 

[Evil Twin]

Depending on your definition of Horror Movie, we have The Exoricst, Terminator II, Hannibal, and Scary Movie, and those are are in the Box Office Mojo top 20.

Actually, those are conservative numbers because Box Office Mojo doesn't include the foreign gross numbers.

I don't count either Terminator II or Scary Movie as I think they're an action movie and spoof, respectively. And you have to go back over 35 years for The Exorcist, which is sort of my point. There are horror movies that make over $100 million, but it's very hit and miss. And most of the one's that make over $100 million don't make much more.

If you set the bar at say $120 million domestic and look at R-rated horror movies, you basically have The Exorcist, Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal, and The Blair Witch Project. You expand your definition a bit you can toss in Terminator 2 and you can toss in a few more if you adjust for inflation. But, there's a reason that no one routinely spends $100 million+ on R-rated horror movies, comic book source or not.

Now, if you want to spend a Hellboy-sized budget, that might make economic sense. That's not a "tentpole" though.

 

[Kurosawa]

My Green Arrow movie would be borderline R because it would be atleast have the feel of the Mike Grell period.

I've honestly always believed Green Arrow would be best used as an HBO or Showtime television series.

The Grell era Green Arrow was an abomination. GA is a hardcore liberal, not the Punisher. And his treatment of Black Canary in that series was straight out of the Frank Miller playbook.

An R-rated Green Arrow would exist due to intense depictions of street crime, drug use, poverty and prostitution but not because Ollie would run around shooting arrows into thugs. It's simply put, out of character.

The character Grell created wasn't a bad character, but it wasn't Green Arrow. GA is best left to the experts, like O'Neill, and to people who are willing to follow his model.

 

[Ben Breeck]

The Grell era Green Arrow was an abomination. GA is a hardcore liberal, not the Punisher. And his treatment of Black Canary in that series was straight out of the Frank Miller playbook.

An R-rated Green Arrow would exist due to intense depictions of street crime, drug use, poverty and prostitution but not because Ollie would run around shooting arrows into thugs. It's simply put, out of character.
.

Well, Considering he went after white collar criminals, white supremicists, poachers, and corrupt government officials in the pockets of special intrests just as often (and just as hard) as he did street crime, I don't see the contradiction.

 

[Crook]

well that seems like it really adds to the story

Well that's not fair, if you can single out nudity, you can single out everything else; like violence and action.

Especially for this film, which MCG has highly touted as being a good story with all the action taken out of it. But I doubt we'd want that.

 

[Kurosawa]

Well, Considering he went after white collar criminals, white supremicists, poachers, and corrupt government officials in the pockets of special intrests just as often (and just as hard) as he did street crime, I don't see the contradiction.

GA maiming people was just too much for me. It made him unlikable.

I like realism in comics but just to a point.

Plus a lot of Ollie's humor and fun side was lost in that series.

 

[Project862006]

Evil Twin i am torn on this as well with Y i think it should be R for a couple of reasons

1. I want bodies to be shown laid everywhere around the world to show the epidemic that has happened .Some blood on them wouldn't hurt it should be shocking and grim the book isn't gritty but the bodies i think should be shown.

and

2.The Sexuality aka the Lesbianism i think needs to be shown to show how desperate they are now with no men left in the world.To show the Survivalism the women have dealt with

Also i wonder how they would deal with Agent 711 scene with Yorrick lol

 

[Ben Breeck]

Well, since Black Swan has now grossed $150,000,000 and is up for a few Oscars, while The Rite is about to make back its budget before what looks to be a vary rich overseas run, I think that Preacher and Swamp Thing are much more likely to come to the silver screen in majore studio releases. Don't you think?

 

[Evil Twin]

I think the success of the art film Black Swan made on a limited budget has nothing to do with spending big money on a pair of adult comic book films. Nobody sees the success of Black Swan as the start of a trend. Just like I don't expect a rush of westerns after the success of True Grit.

The Rite, with it's big second week dropoff, even less so.

There will be successful horror films this year, no doubt. But big budget horror being seen as a viable genre isn't going to depend on the low budget stuff, but on films like At the Mountains of Madness, possibly Ridley Scott's Promethius, and possibly The Thing prequel.