No more R-rated superhero/tentpole films for WB

[CelticPredator]

Dude, it's for kids. No matter how much it tries to distance itself.

Also, everyone saying The Dark Knight is as far as PG-13 super hero/tentpole movies can go, that's a negative.

The figures he posted were made for collectors....now had he posted the actual KIDS figures, i'd work better......

 

[Heretic]

Bone shouldnt be turned into a hard R filmjust because its mostly adults who bought the comic.

Again, if its for kids, let it be for kids...or all audiences anyway.

However, many posts here have made the statement that movies who SHOULD be R are these little niche comics that shouldnt even be made. Really? R movies come out all the time...are those films better ideas than the mature readers comics out there?? Again...its a self loathing of the medium we are claiming to love. Grab a list of the R rated films made in the past few years...and I contend that Transmetropolitan, Preacher, Miracle Man, Bratpack and the other adult books out there deserve to be made into films just as much as the scripts that were made.

Heck, what about a cartoon version of Maus? That would be an r rated CARTOON. OMG! An R rated comic film??? And a cartoon to boot??? But comics and cartoons are for kids!!! Maus shouldnt ever be made into a feature length film!! Who cares that it won tons of awards and is considered a high water mark in odern day literature! Its a comic and shouldnt be for adults!! Maybe they can have the cats and mice be friends...send them on a cute little quest!

 

[Evil Twin]

Who's saying that the R-rated comics shouldn't be made?

The argument is that EXPENSIVE R-rated movies are a dicey proposition, no matter the source. How much does anyone expect a "Brat Pack" movie to make, for example. That's what should set the budget.

We can talk about artistic issues all we like, but movies are expected to make money. And the more you spend and the more you restrict the audience, the less likely you are to make money. Among other factors.

I think Jonah Hex is a good example. I expect it to be R-rated. I also expect that its budget will be relatively modest.

 

[batdude]

Guys, I really don't think the tentpoles they are talking about need an "R" rating. Green Lantern certainly doesn't and I really don't think you could make Batman any darker than Nolan does. They could easily change thier minds later, but right now, no problem.

 

[Heretic]

Who's saying that the R-rated comics shouldn't be made?

The argument is that EXPENSIVE R-rated movies are a dicey proposition, no matter the source. How much does anyone expect a "Brat Pack" movie to make, for example. That's what should set the budget.

We can talk about artistic issues all we like, but movies are expected to make money. And the more you spend and the more you restrict the audience, the less likely you are to make money. Among other factors.

I think Jonah Hex is a good example. I expect it to be R-rated. I also expect that its budget will be relatively modest.

I get the point youre making. I still dont think theres really any reason to believe that Green Lantern would make more money than Sandman.

 

[Chewy]

Guys, I really don't think the tentpoles they are talking about need an "R" rating. Green Lantern certainly doesn't and I really don't think you could make Batman any darker than Nolan does. They could easily change thier minds later, but right now, no problem.

Batman and Green Lantern shouldn't be rated R. Terminator? That's a different story.

 

[batdude]

Yeah, but that Moon Bloodgood scene will be on the director's cut DVD anyway.

 

[Evil Twin]

I get the point youre making. I still dont think theres really any reason to believe that Green Lantern would make more money than Sandman.

I'd like to believe you're right, but given today's marketplace I think that's wishful thinking. A PG-13, slam bang, bright, science fiction/action film with a light tone featuring a character that people have at least heard of IS likelier to do better than a dark, literary, little action, moody, R-rated fantasy piece about a character that's basically unknown to the general public. Coraline's BO is probably the ceiling for Sandman at the moment.

 

[Heretic]

I'd like to believe you're right, but given today's marketplace I think that's wishful thinking. A PG-13, slam bang, bright, science fiction/action film with a light tone featuring a character that people have at least heard of IS likelier to do better than a dark, literary, little action, moody, R-rated fantasy piece about a character that's basically unknown to the general public. Coraline's BO is probably the ceiling for Sandman at the moment.

First of all...the general public has no idea who green lantern is. I used to run a pop culture store, and people would come in and say "Superman! Batman! Flash Gordon! (it was actually The Flash)" and then turn to me and say "who's this supposed to be?" Green Lantern has a slight amount of GA awareness, but many of them think he's a black man.

Sandman...done properly...
Someone like a Tim Burton would direct (id prefer Aronafsky or Del Toro) and Johnny Depp would star. that immediately sets it above Green Lantern. Furthermore, you put it out in October...so it takes advantage of October Horror interest. You make it cool to the Hot topic crowd (which at best can give you Coraline numbers...and add it all up.

That isnt to say thats how it would happen...but you cant judge the properties based on name value.

 

[Lobo]

Yeah, but that Moon Bloodgood scene will be on the director's cut DVD anyway.

and online way before that

 

[The Major]

The call for the possible Suicide Aquad movie to be R-rated is an eye opener largely because no matter how 'gritty' it wanted to be I seem to recall that the issues I read 20 years ago(when I was 10) didn't come with a 'Mature Readers Only' tag. If the source material wasn't even 'R-rated' why would anyone want the adaptation to be?

You can sometimes get away with more in comics then movies, especially these days. That's why the ratings systems between the two mediums don't match up completely. Johns' GL comics if it were adapted panel for panel would not be G rated in a cartoon or big budget movie. It would be hard PG-13 or R. Identity Crisis would have to be R for the rape scene, and that's a mini-series which had Superman in it! Another medium can also made a property edgier then they could be where they started with, which is certainly possible with Suicide Squad. It's about a band of bloodthirsty criminals extorted by the government into going on missions they may not survive to save the world. The premise by itself is enough to warrant a hard PG-13 or R rating.

 

[Evil Twin]

First of all...the general public has no idea who green lantern is. I used to run a pop culture store, and people would come in and say "Superman! Batman! Flash Gordon! (it was actually The Flash)" and then turn to me and say "who's this supposed to be?" Green Lantern has a slight amount of GA awareness, but many of them think he's a black man.

Sandman...done properly...
Someone like a Tim Burton would direct (id prefer Aronafsky or Del Toro) and Johnny Depp would star. that immediately sets it above Green Lantern. Furthermore, you put it out in October...so it takes advantage of October Horror interest. You make it cool to the Hot topic crowd (which at best can give you Coraline numbers...and add it all up.

That isnt to say thats how it would happen...but you cant judge the properties based on name value.

You can't judge the box office potential of properties based on your individual love of the material either.

Sandman, done right, should be a much better film than Green Lantern. Sandman, even done right, is likely to make a lot less.

You can cite that Green Lantern is less well known than Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man. The concept has still been around for close to 70 years, been on stamps, cartoons, and t-shirts (one of which regularly appears on a hit sitcom). People might not be able to consciously name Green Lantern, but the iconography is out there and likely in the back of the minds of many people. The only people that know Sandman are those that read the book.

And, more to the point, Green Lantern is an action film. That's where the big money is. Sandman, isn't. Nor should it be.

You want to make a Sandman film for $50 million, it has a chance to make some money. A Sandman film for $100 million+ is probably even more risky than Watchmen.

 

[terry78]

Honestly, how many of DC's well known properties are R rated material anyway? Their origins were never really that hardcore, they've always been the more fun-loving fantasy based books anyway. Writers have all taken their own liberties with the characters, and made them everything from G rated to close to NC-17 territory with the violence and sex. But PG-13 is pretty much the standard for DC.

 

[Evil Twin]

True. But we're talking about ratings, not ****** scripts. A good movie can become a better one if it isn't edited down to appease the censors.

And, sometimes the opposite is true. A movie can sometimes become better when it relies on suggestion over explicitness. The shower murder in Psycho, for example.

 

[The Major]

And, sometimes the opposite is true. A movie can sometimes become better when it relies on suggestion over explicitness. The shower murder in Psycho, for example.

True. It can go both ways. Just depends on the movie.

 

[Addendum]

The figures he posted were made for collectors....now had he posted the actual KIDS figures, i'd work better......

I guess you missed the "8+" on the package for the Scarecrow toy.

 

[dude stannis]

I think Jonah Hex is a good example. I expect it to be R-rated. I also expect that its budget will be relatively modest.

I can't see Hex costing more than $50 million, 3:10 to Yuma cost that much and it had two mega stars and plenty of action. Josh Brolin isn't on their level of fame yet, which leaves room for even more action.

Yeah, but that Moon Bloodgood scene will be on the director's cut DVD anyway.

I think Chewy meant for the action sequences and the violence (Or lack thereof). Sad that a the rating of a Terminator movie rests solely on a scene with boobies.

 

[Ben Breeck]

Well, Watchmen sounds more like someone at Warner Brothers was trying to sabatoge the thing in some way and failed before its releas so now he or she is trying to prevent anything more like it on his or her watch.

It was hardly promoted as a tentpole, or even at all. Aside from the cardboard cutouts in theaters, and the trailers, I saw no advertising at all. No commercials (except ex post facto on Youtube), no movie ads in newspapers or magazines, and none of the Watchmen toys went to actual toystores or department store toy departments. Arguably, the semi-satirical Watchmen trailer recuts, dubs, and stuff like Saturday Morning Watchmen on Youtube were the best and most vigorous advertising it got. (Naturally, WB shut the best of them down, which says something about what they think of Watchmen

Compare this to, say, 300, where you couldn't change the channel to avoid seeing a commercial. I refuse to believe that inflation between now and 2007 was that bad. Someone must have embezzled that $100 million supposedly budgeted for advertising.

And that's not counting the fact that it was released in March, and not, say, Memorial Day weekend or sometime in July. That the movie made as much as it did without the support it should have gotten speaks volumes about what it would have gotten if it did.

 

[CFE]

All this "it's for kids" and what should or shouldn't be R Rated is complete bulls**t.

It boils down to this, and this alone:

If the Comic Book Material is R-Rated ("Watchmen," "100 Bullets," "The Punisher," "Spawn" etc.) Then the film should be R-Rated.

If the Comic Book Material is not R-Rated ("Superman," "Spider-Man," "Batman," "Green Lantern," "The Avengers," "Justice League" etc.) Then the film shouldn't be/doesn't have to be R-Rated.

It's as simple as that, really.

 

[Ben Breeck]

As for R rated comic properties left, let see. DC/Vertigo/Wildstorm has:

Suicide Squad
The Authority
Stormwatch
WildCATS
Swamp Thing done right
Green Arrow during the Mike Grell period (arguably his most classic time)
The Losers
100 Bullets
Any arc of Our Army at War done right.
Kingdom Come
Vigilante II (Okay, he's just DC's Punisher, but still)
A Superman Movie based on Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow
The Kate Spencer Manhunter
Anything where Deathstroke has more than a background cameo (Unless it's another Glenn Murakami Teen Titans animated movie)
Y: The Last Man
Warlord
John Sable: Freelance
Starslayer
American Flagg!
The Dark Knight Returns
Sandman III

That's enough to keep WB busy 'till the cows come home, or at least for six years or so.

*I refuse to include Frank Miller's The Dark Night Strikes Again or his run on All Star Batman: He seems to have done these books just to give DC (and the fans) the middle finger. (At least, that's the best conclusion I can come up with.) I also don't count Miracleman because Alan Moore will fight tooth and nail to keep his storylines from becoming movies, and Neil Gaiman's stuff assumes that you already know about what Alan Moore did to work.

 

[terry78]

^WildCATS could be PG-13. They already made a Saturday morning series about it.

 

[Ben Breeck]

All this "it's for kids" and what should or shouldn't be R Rated is complete bulls**t.

It boils down to this, and this alone:

If the Comic Book Material is R-Rated ("Watchmen," "100 Bullets," "The Punisher," "Spawn" etc.) Then the film should be R-Rated.

If the Comic Book Material is not R-Rated ("Superman," "Spider-Man," "Batman," "Green Lantern," "The Avengers," "Justice League" etc.) Then the film shouldn't be/doesn't have to be R-Rated.

It's as simple as that, really.

It's a little more complex than that.

Take Batman, for example.
How do you adapt the Knightfall saga to be PG13 without ruining the characterizations and backstories of Bane or Jean Paul Valley or making Bruce's relationship with Barbara Kingslover seem forced?

How do you adapt Emerald Twilight/Zero Hour to be PG13 without making turing the story into a superficial parody of itself?

 

[Lobo]

Green Arrow could be, too. Suicide Squad with a clever director can be a hard pg 13.

 

[Lobo]

It's a little more complex than that.

Take Batman, for example.
How do you adapt the Knightfall saga to be PG13 without ruining the characterizations and backstories of Bane or Jean Paul Valley or making Bruce's relationship with Barbara Kingslover seem forced?

How do you adapt Emerald Twilight/Zero Hour to be PG13 without making turing the story into a superficial parody of itself?

You choose different stories to adapt, or do those as animated DTV's

 

[Crook]

Meh. That lacks balls.

I'd love to see them escalate Batman further. Maybe shoot the film as is, and then make the necessary cuts for a PG-13 theatrical run. With an unrated version for BD/DVD. They should do this for any film that walks the line of PG-13/R. You get to please both audiences.