Justice League Nothing is Perfect - What you didn’t like about the Snyder Cut

[Mani-Man]

Plot holes are fine but when they make your Big Bad look incompetent it becomes frustrating.

Imagine Darth Vader forgetting the location of the 1 planet that the entire plot revolves around? Its lazy writing.

Plot holes are fine and understandable to a degree.
But not in a 4 hour movie and when you try to build up a Big villian.

I could understand if he wouldnt have had the time to add more to Darkseid, that would be understandable.

But in his 4 hour cut where you probably can easily cut away 30+ minutes, its not an excuse.
Hell he couldnt even tell that Darkseid when returning to his planet had to deal with others trying to seize power etc...not even that.
No we get a movie where its not adressed why the guy doesnt know where he lost.

And that is my problem, because those are huge plot and character holes people otherwise would rip directors apart for.
But not Synder, no...when he pulls dumb **** like that its fine, people work around it.

Darkseid in the snydercut is a insult to Jack Kirby.

Nobody can tell me that Snyder loves the Characters.
He doesnt care enough to flesh out Darkseid, hell he didnt even care enough to explain the black suit of Superman...its just there for visuals when it really should serve a purpose.

 

[Yowza]

Why didn't people get snapped into trees or reclaim jobs and marriages just like that in Endgame someone pointed out in a thread. Someone else talked about beloved movies of the past there too but odd people really dig into JL that yes has some things not explained well but much smaller IMO. Many here just don't like it regardless cause it is representative of all past repressions in some way it seems to me. No offense to anyone specific just overall kind of hard to not see a lot of people want the DC movies to move on from Snyder on the SHH boards moreso.

Casual audience or comic fans in general I think seem to be ok with it overall but I don't mind seeing movies move on as the JL sequel ideas I didn't find fitting to go with at this point in time anymore anyway. JL2 specifically with Injustice League was more of a filler away from the main story anyway.

I think Darkseid unable to refind earth once again after JL1 is fitting.

 

[obredaan]

Playful sarcasm? After all, hiding Luke from Vader on Tatooine (!) — under the name Skywalker (!) — is a bit of a head-scratcher. Granted, there are several ways to (as the kids say) “fanwank” an explanation. But then likewise for Darkseid…?

Are you comparing Luke being put into hiding when Vader had no knowledge of his existance to Darkseid simply forgetting the location of the only planet that defeated him?

 

[Yowza]

The Nightmare sequence in BvS wasn't a dream but in JL was.

 

[matt47]

Not only all that but how does step not realise its the lost World when he gets boomtubed to a mother box? They made it out as if they were the only 3 around

 

[Yowza]

The motherbox or antilife origin exposition I think is necessary to understand more. I think despite 4 hrs, some of the expository elements in Terrio's original dense script were traded off in favor of team building the JL that allowed it to tonally level out somewhat per studio demands but that being said Snyder is at fault too.

Snyder's time for actual reshoots was up even after the greenlight given for the Snyder cut it seems though. Still, the fact JL2 (WB's Age of Ultron in being a segue film) had little to do with core plot of JL1 or JL3 seems to showcase storytelling really was starting to take a back seat in favor of following the Marvel model of extended film universe where things are quickly glossed over.

I am glad at this point JL1 happened as a Snyder cut and that it isn't going to carry into Injustice League instead of the core story.

 

[matt47]

If only they had a krypton like prologue of the ancient battle on earth then back to apokolips for the coup and step killing his comrades and getting exhiled. It would've mirrored man of steels prologue

 

[Yowza]

That would've meant Diana had to be privy to what happened after they left apokolips though.

 

[Mani-Man]

Are you comparing Luke being put into hiding when Vader had no knowledge of his existance to Darkseid simply forgetting the location of the only planet that defeated him?

Thats the key point.
Not only has Vader no knowledge of Luke, its also a rather smart decision to put him onto the one planet Vader despises the most.

While ZSJL relies on the fact that for reasons Snyder never tells, everybody just somehow forgot about Earth, the planet they invaded, where Darkseid lost for the first time and only barely managed to survive because his minions dragged him away to safety.

Just look at it from a casual viewers point and tell me its not completely awful.

You introduce this big bad, conquerer of worlds.
He comes to earth with his army and the motherboxes(which he for some reason puts in the middle of the battlefield with his sorcerer guys who are unprotected as hell...dude, if they have enough power either way, why couldnt you have your guys on the ships or far behind where they wouldnt be killed simply by a few arrows?), he fights and loses after doing what looks like minimal damage, gets his ass kicked so damn hard by a few puny earth gods.

Then years later due to what looks like sheer luck, one of his guys who betrayed him and now goes from planet to planet to make it right, finds out that this is the planet this doofus lost on, which said doofus for some reasons we dont know, just forgot about.

Is that really acceptable writing for not just a one off Villian, but what is supposed to be THE Villian?

 

[Yowza]

Leaving aside the plothole debate here is what I am able to recollect from what I saw in the film.

Motherbox Facts:
*Apokolyptian technology
*Denizens of Apocalypse have become enmeshed with nonsentient robot like augmentation. Steppenwolf's armoured shell suggests he has gone through similar experience to Cyborg somewhat without the longing to be back to his original state as much.
*Cyborg is attuned to motherboxes per origin.
*This augmentation has led to sensing the motherboxes no matter the distance.
*The motherboxes are somehow sentient knowing when to call out. Why they didn't call out for 1000's of years while kept at Atlantis, Themyscira, and buried underground before Germans found the 3rd kept by man suggests they were inactivated. What activated them then?
*They were activated while superman was around but didn't send a signal. Why not years before his arrival then?
*They can create a wormhole through space to those attuned to them.
*When combined some sort of interdimensional energy is released destroying a planet.
*The preists are still attuned to these devices suggesting those attuned to sense both in life and after.

*Denizens of a world become artificial sentient beings somehow after Darkseid arrives as evidenced by some zombie like amazons at Diana's funeral. This suggests Darkseid used motherboxes on own world? This why denezens now parademons?



Antilife:
*Similar to Infinity Gauntlet but instead a tattoo on the earth representing the energy within.
*How is this accessed? Not by motherboxes as those destroyed at end of JL movie yet still to be found per Darkseid. How does he tap into it though?
*Has the power to corrupt people similar to the mind stone loki used for those susceptible.
*A destructive epicenter to the universe suggests a multidemensional aspect

Overall, too much to explain. A prelude to a sequel film going over all this before getting into the story would be necessary.

 

[Yowza]

Comic Book versions:

Mother Box - Wikipedia

Anti-Life Equation - Wikipedia

 

[Dr.]

Comic Book versions:

Mother Box - Wikipedia

Anti-Life Equation - Wikipedia

Though I’m reasonably knowledgeable about Superman and DC lore, I had never heard of Mother Boxes, the Anti-Life Equation or Steppenwolf before ZSJL. And I only knew Darkseid as a name and image. IOW, I would probably qualify as the proverbial “average viewer” who’s encountering this material for the first time.

Even so, it was fairly obvious that Darkseid and the Anti-Life Equation weren’t of immediate relevance to the main action of Justice League. Rather (and just as obviously), they were being set up/“teased” as the principal elements of a hypothetical Justice League 2. Consequently, I wasn’t too fussed about the lack of details or backstory. I figured those would be covered in the next chapter.

 

[Dr.]

Are you comparing Luke being put into hiding when Vader had no knowledge of his existance to Darkseid simply forgetting the location of the only planet that defeated him?

I’m comparing what I consider to be two analogously minor “plot holes.” Notwithstanding Vader’s ignorance, Obi Wan and Yoda thought there was still sufficient danger to justify concealing the twins’ identities. Thus, Leia became Princess Organa. And Luke became… Luke Skywalker. Even if the risk were low, a name change would seem to be both easy and prudent.

BTW, this is a commonly cited Star Wars “plot hole.” I don’t claim originality.

 

[Yowza]

Though I’m reasonably knowledgeable about Superman and DC lore, I had never heard of Mother Boxes, the Anti-Life Equation or Steppenwolf before ZSJL. And I only knew Darkseid as a name and image. IOW, I would probably qualify as the proverbial “average viewer” who’s encountering this material for the first time.

Even so, it was fairly obvious that Darkseid and the Anti-Life Equation weren’t of immediate relevance to the main action of Justice League. Rather (and just as obviously), they were being set up/“teased” as the principal elements of a hypothetical Justice League 2. Consequently, I wasn’t too fussed about the lack of details or backstory. I figured those would be covered in the next chapter.

Justice League 3 I think would've touched on that moreso as Justice League 2 sounded like an unnecessary segue with Injustice League, more stuff being collected, and finally Darkseid's arrival...

I hear you though, I think at least antilife (not so much the motherboxes as destroyed) would have been expanded upon some more in an eventual sequel.

I didn't know these were derived from the comics as well. Like Steppenwolf though, how much liberty is being taken for the movie adaptation is an ongoing question. I think in general these are plot device macguffins the audience isn't meant to think too much about just that it's some plan for the heroes to foil.

I think some of the problems though lie in some confusing moments like Superman's absence awakening the boxes and other little overly elaborate sequences like the motherbox being charged by Flash in the ship as it awoke Superman that were just too elaborate and confusing.

Them being linked to so many things including Cyborg's origin and all sorts of other usages is what spurred to try and list everything out in my post above but still questions remain. It is a macguffin and comics I guess one can use to attempt to fill details in with but I wish things were laid out more clearly in the film is all but I still like it.

The Darkseid forgetting earth thing I can use Diana's explanation and fill in my own understanding. I am willing to do that where possible cause I like the film but can see there's some elements that could have been filled in more. Oh well.

 

[Mr. E Nygma]

I definitely didn't like this creepster and her drawn-out song. Just felt out of place and screwed up the flow a bit.

Flash saving Iris was the only other nitpick I had. The use of slow-motion was not great and focusing on a sesame seed was a waste of screen time.

 

[matt47]

That would've meant Diana had to be privy to what happened after they left apokolips though.

I meant that it wouldnt have dianas voice over. It would just be a played out few scenes

 

[obredaan]

Consequently, I wasn’t too fussed about the lack of details or backstory. I figured those would be covered in the next chapter.

Who needs details and backstory in a 4-hour movie when we have much more important stuff to show like Flash saving Iris. Why bother with unimportant stuff when we can giggle at slow motion sausages and sesame seeds being flung at our screens?

 

[Dr.]

...I think at least antilife (not so much the motherboxes as destroyed) would have been expanded upon some more in an eventual sequel.

...The Darkseid forgetting earth thing I can use Diana's explanation and fill in my own understanding. I am willing to do that where possible cause I like the film but can see there's some elements that could have been filled in more. Oh well.

Speaking for myself, I don’t require a lot of nuance and detail when larger-than-life Monster Dudes explain their Evil Scheme to Rule the Universe! It’s fantasy and a familiar genre staple that usually doesn’t rate minute analysis. In this case, the main MacGuffin was a trio of magic boxes. Okay... That more-or-less hangs together… Moving on. Additionally, there was a kind of second MacGuffin — the Anti-Life equation. But since this (as noted) was more for sequels than the current story, I was content with a less precise description (even if it didn’t quite hang together). For all I knew, fuller exposition was planned for the later movies.

Of course, this raises an interesting (IMO) question: to what degree is a sequel allowed to redeem an apparent mistake in an earlier film? For instance, I found the hallucinogenic appearance of the Flash in BvS (“Lois Lane is the key!”) to be awkward, confusing and pointless. I like the movie overall; yet I counted this scene as one of its flaws. But fast forward to ZSJL: we hear Bruce’s explanation and we’re shown Flash’s physical appearance in Knightmare land (identical to that in the BvS hallucination). At which point, the formerly problematic scene makes retroactive sense.

I suppose the flaw still exists if we consider BvS in isolation. But it disappears if we look at the combined films as a more expansive, long-form narrative.

Something similar might apply to the Anti-Life Equation “plot hole.” But since JL2 (or JL3) won’t ever exist, the question shall remain unanswered.

 

[Dr.]

Who needs details and backstory in a 4-hour movie when we have much more important stuff to show like Flash saving Iris. Why bother with unimportant stuff when we can giggle at slow motion sausages and sesame seeds being flung at our screens?

I enjoy substantive discussion (even when the topic is superhero movies ). But I’m uncomfortable responding to sarcasm. (Is it aggressive and mean-spirited or jokey?) So I decline to engage. Cheers.