Justice League Character Comparisons: Snyder Cut vs. Whedon Cut

[ChrisLyne]

For me ZSJL is a far better movie but I found JL2017 more enjoyable.

Breaking it down into characters:

Stepphenwolf - there's no contest here, he is far better fleshed out and developed in ZSJL. Adding Darkseid just improves his character and motivation so much (even if Darkseid is taken out a bit too quickly/easily in the history lesson).

Batman - I think Batman fared better in ZSJL but JL2017 had some good Bruce scenes that I was sad to see go. Loved the "Faith, Alfred. Faith" line.

Aquaman - probably the closest between the two. I liked the added Vulko and Mera interactions, missed the lasso scene. Preferred the song music in JL2017 and thought it fit the character attitude better, but the lyrics of the song choice in ZSJL fit just as well. If I had to pick I'd probably just lean to JL2017 a little but there really isn't much in this one for me.

Wonder Woman - male gaze camera shots aside, I think Diana was better developed in JL2017. Her blowing up the terrorist at the start felt like overkill to me and she just felt a bit more rounded in 2017 rather than just going along with Bruce all the time. The added Amazon stuff and Diana visiting the temple were all great though.

Cyborg - like Stepphenwolf, no contest here. I did like that JL2017 left Silas alive but I really loved Vic's "I'm not broken and I'm not alone"

Flash - as much as it was nice to see Iris I can see why the scene was cut as it didn't add anything to the story. I do miss the "save one" scene (and Barry running the scientists out of danger) but cutting the time travel scene was criminal so it's close but I'd give this one to ZSJL because that scene in the finale was so good.

Lois - ZSJL's first Lois/Martha scene is MUCH better than the one in JL2017 (ignoring the MM reveal after). However, I much prefer Batman actually telling Lois of the plan and having her there as part of the plan rather than her just being there because she visited every day. I also think that the end of JL2017, with Lois going back to work and writing about the JL gives her a better conclusion to her story in the film so I'm going to give this one to JL2017.

Superman - Bad CG shave aside, JL2017. You get more of a feel that he has a new lease on life, that he enjoys being back. He interacts with the team more. And, yes, the classic suit is more fitting IMO. Putting aside the Knightmare stuff, there's nothing in ZSJL that's off putting to me, and I loved first flight 2.0, but I just prefer what we got in JL2017 even if it is a little cliche.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Here's my comment on the Martha scene in BvS on March 12th in a different thread:



It's just a lot of people's insecurity coming out watching that scene IMO.

Insecurity? I’m not sure what you mean by that. I do agree with your analysis of the Martha scene. I just don’t think it works as well as Snyder thinks it did. Batman coming to the realization that he’s acting like a full-blown psycho and that he’s about to kill one of the good guys is fine. But going about it that way just felt silly. It’s a bit funny that the two most iconic superheroes have mothers with the same first name, but it’s not so coincidental that it justifies Batman’s reaction, which almost seems to imply that he thinks his mother was the only person on earth with that name lol.

I think Snyder (and Terrio I guess) have some okay ideas but they have an execution problem. Even more egregious to me is how they handle Superman. We hear Snyder constantly talk about how these films center on him and everyone reacting to him and how he inspires people. That’s all great, but we see and hear very little from the man himself that actually puts this on display. Even in Man of Steel, which is Snyder’s best DCEU film IMO, there’s this weird moment after Superman fights the world engine and Jenny says “He saved us!” Like, how did she even have a clue that he did? Superman is on the other side of the world all alone fighting this thing, yet a low level staffer at the Daily Planet somehow knew he stopped the chaos. It’s not even clear at that point whether anyone outside of the military and Lois knows of his existence (and even if Lois told Perry, it’s highly unlikely Jenny was in on all that). Snyder could have easily solved this problem with a little rewriting by just having Superman battle the ship in Metropolis, thereby showing people that he’s there to help them and hopefully keeping a few buildings from being destroyed along the way.

This isn’t a huge deal but it’s sort of emblematic of the other issues with Superman. They say all this stuff about him inspiring people in ZSJL but they kind of gloss over what made him so inspirational. Especially after the previous movie made it out like everyone hated and/or distrusted him.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Batman: Snyder Cut. He seems sensible and properly motivated, unlike the Whedon version where he is hilariously stupid and is entertaining for being a suicidal bonehead.

Superman: Whedon Cut. I gotta credit Snyder for making Superman charming in this movie, but Whedon did more justice to him (minus that awful cgi covering of facial hair).

Wonder Woman: Snyder Cut. I liked her in both versions, but Snyder definitely did a better job on this one.

Flash: Snyder Cut. He obviously has issues in this one, but at least there was sufficient material to make me think he's more useful than the hesitant goofball from the theatrical version. His banter with Superman and semi-chemistry with Cyborg are good moments in the theatrical release, and then he's just a semi-useless goofball.

Cyborg: Snyder Cut.

Aquaman: Snyder cut. I didn't remember it before watching Cosmonaut Variety Hour review of the Snyder Cut, but that scene of growling Aquaman in the theatrical mess sadly paints him as a nagging *****e. At least in the Snyder version he's more mature and doesn't make me think of a high schooler jock in a prom movie.

Alfred: Snyder Cut. Because there are more moments with him.

Steppenwolf: Snyder Cut. I do however, enjoy his repeated 'MOTHER' obsession in the theatrical release, I missed laughing at it here to a certain degree.

Lois Lane: Snyder cut because of the farm scene. "You smell good" comment spoken to a corpse that is recently resurrected bit is exclusive to the theatrical cut.

MARTHA: Did she appear in Snyder's cut?

 

[The Guard]

Batman: Snyder Cut. He seems sensible and properly motivated, unlike the Whedon version where he is hilariously stupid and is entertaining for being a suicidal bonehead.

See I've heard this elsewhere, and I don't really get this. He has more motivation in the Whedon cut, its developed more concretely, and he's a suicidal bonehead in both versions of the movie.

And honestly, he occassionally comes across as kind of goofy in Snyder's version, too.

Lois Lane:

Snyder cut because of the farm scene. "You smell good" comment spoken to a corpse that is recently resurrected bit is exclusive to the theatrical cut.

No, pretty sure that's in this cut, too. That was Snyder.

MARTHA:

Did she appear in Snyder's cut?

The world may never know.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

See I've heard this elsewhere, and I don't really get this. He has more motivation in the Whedon cut, its developed more concretely, and he's a suicidal bonehead in both versions of the movie.

And honestly, he occassionally comes across as kind of goofy in Snyder's version, too.

Maybe you're right about the last part, but he was sticking to the plan and benefitting from his surroundings. Theatrical version has him talking about plan to enter his car and rush like a nut to lure the parademons his way, and it is hilarious.

No, pretty sure that's in this cut, too. That was Snyder.

It was replaced with "You spoke"

 

[Detective Conan]

I gotta say for as little as Superman was in either cut, Snyder’s version wins out for me - not just because that version doesn’t have the CGI face, but because I think Superman effortlessly blocking Steppenwolf’s axe like it was nothing saying, “not impressed” is way more badass than his corny “I’m a big fan of justice” return in the Whedon/Warners version.

And Cavil looks really cool in the black suit even if it would be better if he was in the classic red and blue suit.

 

[Vlyse]

Superman and Wonder Woman are superior in the Whedon cut because they get to be fun and optimistic heroes that don't blow people up, smash their heads against walls, and fall to darkness. Also, Diana's "I'm here for him" to Bruce as they approach the Kryptonian ship I was not expecting that to be cut from ZSJL. I'll take what little Superman/WW interaction I can get and it's nice to hear Diana disagree with Bruce but still support Kal-El.

I prefer Whedon cut completing her arc of hidden savior to public hero and stopping the museum thieves. In ZSJL she had a depressing bookend compared to rest of the cast.

 

[Detective Conan]

You can’t convince me that the Whedon Superman return scene is better than the Snyder version.

 

[Deck Rickard]

For me, it’s not that the scene is actually better, or even that the dialogue is better. It’s just that, despite the CGI on half of his face, Superman’s charm comes through. They actually let Cavill act a bit instead of just telling him to silently punch things. And when he’s allowed to speak and be optimistic, what do you know? He actually can act like Superman instead of just moping and grimacing.

 

[CadeSkywalker28]

All characters change over time and only Superman can't change.

He must be a walking puppet that will directly to the audience say that he believe in truth and justice instead of just doing the right thing like in The Snyder Cut.

 

[StarLord]

Barry Allen came across as kinda creepy and ''the wierdo'' in the Josstice League, but I really liked him a lot in Snyder's version.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Guys, CUT THE CRAP! Debate the movie civilly or don't post. I have been sick of every single one of these debates becoming an insult fest for YEARS, and it needs to STOP!!!! Next condescending post gets an infraction, and if this keeps up some of you are taking time off.

Enough is enough. You are all not children. Act like adults. I don't care who started it. It ends NOW!!!

 

[Reel-Man]

How come mod names aren’t in red anymore?

 

[Spider-Fan]

How come mod names aren’t in red anymore?

Mods are Red. Admins are Blue.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

I'm watching the theatrical hilarity again, and while I prefer Snyder's Barry for the most part, I have to say that the grave conversation he has with Victor is more lighthearted and less awkward.

Theatrical cut dialogue is him being worried about the result of the resurrection and conversation about his and Cyborg's origins.

New cut dialogue on the grave goes like:
Barry: "You think I can get a chance dating Wonder Woman?"
It's like he's standing on a corpse and talking of potentially getting laid with a hot old lady.

All characters change over time and only Superman can't change.

He must be a walking puppet that will directly to the audience say that he believe in truth and justice instead of just doing the right thing like in The Snyder Cut.

Superman has changed over time, and changes work from one version to the next. When it comes to the versions we've seen in films for the past 15 years (and maybe in Smallville too) doesn't sit well with how Superman is ideally portrayed. Superman Returns made him a dead beat dad, and in the Snyder movies he's an angry repressed jock who seems uncomfortable around people socially and just wishes to dish out his anger, and he later dish it out on their property like a pity child.

Clark Kent has changed in different renditions, he has evolved and became more outgoing and less afraid to touch people while growing more powerful. John Byrne's reboot restricted his powers significantly compared to how he used to be before, it also helped reduce the facade of a coward he used to maintain.

With the changes of strength and abilities for Superman there has been another evolution for the character of Clark Kent; he represents the ideal version of maturity while Superman represents the ideal of courage and hope for people to strive to be. He's been unusually honest showing his face while maintaining a secret identity, and taking responsibility for his actions, fixing property damaged in fights he engaged in to save the city.

Superman has been receiving mail to send his gifts of aid, so he is what Santa Clause is advertised to be, but when he is met with a request he cannot solve he goes to the message sender when he can and gently, like a father figure, warmly helps them deal with their grief and knowing when loss is unavoidable.

As Clark Kent, he maintains his job, has hobbies, takes care of his parents, lets his wife knows of his social life, does his best to get along with the father in law who looks down on him and thinks Clark is weak. Clark trusts his wife as his rock, he is her rock, they work together and work around their problems like adults SHOULD act.


We don't ask for all these details when wanting to see Superman adapted, but we want to see the vision of maturity he needs to maintain, a certain level of relatability, a hero to look up to instead of one to ridicule.

 

[Deck Rickard]

All characters change over time and only Superman can't change.

He must be a walking puppet that will directly to the audience say that he believe in truth and justice instead of just doing the right thing like in The Snyder Cut.

Come on, man. No one is saying that Superman can’t evolve or that he has to act like it’s 1955. But there are aspects of these characters that need to remain intact; otherwise they feel like different characters. You wouldn’t want Batman smiling and acting friendly while he’s taking down criminals. And for Superman, some of us want to see him display leadership and humanity. Instead, Snyder prefers to have him silently mope or just bash villains’ heads in. Would it have killed him to give Cavill a line or two during the stare down with Darkseid? Or some banter with the other team members? Snyder fans always say things like “Superman isn’t a talker,” but I’ve read a lot of Superman comic books, I’ve seen all the movies, and plenty of TV shows and cartoons. The only times Superman has come off like a mute has been when Snyder and Singer were handling him.

 

[heatvision38]

Mods are Red. Admins are Blue.

Who would win in a fight, a mod or an admin?

 

[TeeKay]

Most of Whedon's changes were to compress things or add humor, which while occassionally working, wasn't entirely neccessary, and generally not an improvement because it was a compressed version of what ZSJL got fairly right.

However, immediately prior to and after Superman's resurrection, Whedon has two or three darn good scenes featuring interaction between the heroes as they discuss Superman's impact on the world and potential toward the league, the science behind, ethical issues and possible ramifications of raising him, Alfred and Bruce and Bruce and Diana that serve to flesh out their arcs considerably better, and are just good portrayals of the heroes and their struggles. The scenes balance humor and plot development pretty well. There's not much like that in the Snyder version. Whedon improved the cave team interaction/planning portion in some ways. And Whedon did actual things with Lois in relation to her career and in relation to the heroes, that at least touched on humanity reacting to the events of the film. And you know...as goofy as the Russian family and league saving civilians is...it really is the kind of thing the movie needed. A take on the people afraid and in peril from the threat. That was sorely lacking in ZSJL, aside from the people of Themyscira and Atlantis.

Thank you. My thoughts exactly. The team debating whether or not to bring back superman was good and even wonder Woman's interaction with Bruce after she pops his shoulder back in was good. I feel like ZSJLneeded more levity. It was taking itself wayyy too serious. Heck I wished the scene where Aquan sat on the lasso was in.

But overall ZSJL is better than the whedon cut but that's not saying much. One has advantage of being 4 hours and the other one has to be trimmed down.

Only thing I don't get is the reshoots (apart from the Superman ones and the team discussions ). Everything else felt unnecessary tbh. Cyborg could have been trimmed down without losing his arc. I get whedon wanted to add more humour but he did Cyborg and Batman dirty imo.

 

[Bren]

Who would win in a fight, a mod or an admin?

Whoever wins... we lose.

 

[TheVileOne]

Steppenwolf is almost kind of a decent villain this time. At least he has actual motivations now and sort of has an arc. However, his design and CG look even worse. But it's improved that he's Darkseid's scion and he's lost his honor after betraying his master. Now he's desperate to prove himself again and gain some redemption.

This role was better suited for Kalibak. Kalibak looking more alien would make sense, and him desperate for his father's affection and recognition would've made more sense.

No offense, but I still don't think Gal Gadot is that great of an actress. Some of her delivery here was really wooden and really off. I feel like they picked some of her worst takes in this cut, like "I belong to no one!" Lady, Steppenwolf doesn't want to possess, he wants to fight and kill you. Not to mention she has to deliver all that clunky exposition.

Now credit to Gal Gadot, she does have presence and some charisma. I just think Patty Jenkins does a better job of hiding her weaknesses than Zack Snyder does. And frankly, Joss Whedon did too. Her big long monologue about the old gods was shortened and a lot of her bad, wooden takes were removed.

In both cuts, I think making the Mother Boxes the MacGuffins of the film is somewhat problematic. Also, the fact that Darkseid and Apokolips forgot they were on Earth was also sort of gimmicky and stupid. Darkseid being a part of this makes more sense and Steppenwolf working for him and trying to please him.

If I was Darkseid, there is no way I'm forgetting the planet where I got f'n humiliated and curb stomped and also lost my ultra-important apocalypse machines that I need to spread my conquest. That throwaway line from Diana that they just got lost in a trillion other worlds is nonsense.

Batman's stunt work and choreography look bad. He looks like a puffy blob in that suit. Everything looks so fake and like blobby CG so when you see Batman trying to fight the CG blogs it looks weird. It reminds me of the Star Wars prequels somewhat. The big fight with the old gods and Darkseid and his army felt similar as well. It looked like a video game cutscene, no sense of weight or realism, except video game cutscenes now have better CG and graphics than this.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Steppenwolf is almost kind of a decent villain this time. At least he has actual motivations now and sort of has an arc. However, his design and CG look even worse. But it's improved that he's Darkseid's scion and he's lost his honor after betraying his master. Now he's desperate to prove himself again.

Upon watching the theatrical movie recently he does maintain those motives there, sadly they are just passing foreshadowing of "My exile will end".
I agree with the rest of that statement.

Snyder prefers to have him silently mope or just bash villains’ heads in. Would it have killed him to give Cavill a line or two during the stare down with Darkseid? Or some banter with the other team members? Snyder fans always say things like “Superman isn’t a talker,” but I’ve read a lot of Superman comic books, I’ve seen all the movies, and plenty of TV shows and cartoons. The only times Superman has come off like a mute has been when Snyder and Singer were handling him.

I'll add to this one complaint I have about Clark Kent's representation in BvS: He indirectly gave Perry White the middle finger by completely ignoring his orders about covering the game he was supposed to cover. Clark doesn't do that, and this version of the character is lucky he didn't get fired for keeping his designated space in the paper a blank instead of following orders and keeping Batman's story branding criminals independent research.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Steppenwolf is almost kind of a decent villain this time. At least he has actual motivations now and sort of has an arc. However, his design and CG look even worse. But it's improved that he's Darkseid's scion and he's lost his honor after betraying his master. Now he's desperate to prove himself again.

This role was better suited for Kalibak. Kalibak looking more alien would make sense, and him desperate for his father's affection and recognition would've made more sense.

No offense, but I still don't think Gal Gadot is that great of an actress. Some of her delivery here was really wooden and really off. I feel like they picked some of her worst takes in this cut, like "I belong to no one!" Lady, Steppenwolf doesn't want to possess, he wants to fight and kill you. Not to mention she has to deliver all that clunky exposition.

Now credit to Gal Gadot, she does have presence and some charisma. I just think Patty Jenkins does a better job of hiding her weaknesses than Zack Snyder does. And frankly, Joss Whedon did too. Her big long monologue about the old gods was shortened and a lot of her bad, wooden takes were removed.

In both cuts, I think making the Mother Boxes the MacGuffins of the film is somewhat problematic. Also, the fact that Darkseid and Apokolips forgot they were on Earth was also sort of gimmicky and stupid. Darkseid being a part of this makes more sense and Steppenwolf working for him and trying to please him.

If I was Darkseid, there is no way I'm forgetting the planet where I got f'n humiliated and curb stomped and also lost my ultra-important apocalypse machines that I need to spread my conquest. That throwaway line from Diana that they just got lost in a trillion other worlds is nonsense.

Batman's stunt work and choreography look bad. He looks like a puffy blob in that suit. Everything looks so fake and like blobby CG so when you see Batman trying to fight the CG blogs it looks weird. It reminds me of the Star Wars prequels somewhat. The big fight with the old gods and Darkseid and his army felt similar as well. It looked like a video game cutscene, no sense of weight or realism, except video game cutscenes now have better CG and graphics than this.

I agree with most of this, especially the big battle scene with the old gods. Really, most of the movie looked like a really well-done video game. Very little of it looked real; even scenes that were populated by hundreds of CGI monsters looked fake, like Wonder Woman’s cartoonish museum fight.

And yeah, Batfleck looks terrible in that suit. In some scenes he looks like he can barely move. They hid that better here than in the Whedon version (it was painfully obvious in the reshot scenes) but he still looks silly. Snyder sacrifices practicality for his Dark Knight Returns obsession.

 

[TheVileOne]

I agree with most of this, especially the big battle scene with the old gods. Really, most of the movie looked like a really well-done video game. Very little of it looked real; even scenes that were populated by hundreds of CGI monsters looked fake, like Wonder Woman’s cartoonish museum fight.

And yeah, Batfleck looks terrible in that suit. In some scenes he looks like he can barely move. They hid that better here than in the Whedon version (it was painfully obvious in the reshot scenes) but he still looks silly. Snyder sacrifices practicality for his Dark Knight Returns obsession.

Yeah the Batman suit movement looked weird and awkward. In Batman Begins the editing wasn't great, but I imagine they had to cut around the issues with the suit. It wasn't perfect in the Nolan sequels but it was an improvement in Dark Knight and Rises.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Yeah the Batman suit movement looked weird and awkward. In Batman Begins the editing wasn't great, but I imagine they had to cut around the issues with the suit. It wasn't perfect in the Nolan sequels but it was an improvement here.

Yeah. People point to the warehouse fight in BvS as “proof” that this version is SO much better than the Nolan version. And yeah, it does look impressive even if Batman would literally need to be superhuman to pull all that **** off. But aside from that scene, he looks really stiff and awkward. Even in other fight scenes in the same movie he looks bad, like in the Knightmare sequence, which had WWE quality fight choreography.

 

[Spider-Aziz]

Yeah. People point to the warehouse fight in BvS as “proof” that this version is SO much better than the Nolan version. And yeah, it does look impressive even if Batman would literally need to be superhuman to pull all that **** off. But aside from that scene, he looks really stiff and awkward. Even in other fight scenes in the same movie he looks bad, like in the Knightmare sequence, which had WWE quality fight choreography.

Hey hey hey, don't badmouth Batman punching heavily like a gorilla left and right and snapping necks, he had a premonition.