Odd parts about Civil War...

[TheCorpulent1]

A year later in real time, but more than a decade later in the characters' timelines. Those pages you posted are from very early in the Avengers' existence.

 

[Darthphere]

If you really get down to it, you could get the greatest crossover in history and find odd parts to it.

 

[The Question]

I don't mind the conspiracy. What I would like is that maybe just maybe the conspiracy gets DESTROYED.

* In Spiderman we have Haliburton (or its equivalent) releasing crooks to fight Spiderman on the assumption Spiderman for some reason would be investigating the military industrial complex.

* The New HYDRA is apparently controlled by the New SHIELD.

* Red Skull is Secretary of Defense

* The USA knowing about El Frozen Captain America and doing nothing.

etc etc.

And just once I'd like it exposed that its all connected and an evil group and TAKEN DOWN so its not assumed that the government is doing something wicked every second by its very nature.

Red Skull being secretary of defense is completely unrelated. He carefully forged a false alias over several years and infiltraited the presidential cabinet all by his own self. There's really no proof that there is a consperacy. Just characters acting like complete idiots so they can have an excuse for big fight scenes.

If you really get down to it, you could get the greatest crossover in history and find odd parts to it.

True. But Civil War is very very far from the greatest crossover in history.



Also, another weird thing I noticed. Why is S.H.E.I.L.D. enforcing a U.S. law? S.H.E.I.L.D. is an international organization. Like if the CIA and Interpol had a love child that takes steroids. The registration act should be none of their concern.

 

[Grim Goblin]

A year later in real time, but more than a decade later in the characters' timelines. Those pages you posted are from very early in the Avengers' existence.

I know, but it's the very fact that Marvel accepted that this was the proper interpretation of these characters' beliefs that intrigues me.

I can't recal any major change in behavior from these characters (well, at lest none that stuck over a long while) up to the "modern" era

 

[Darthphere]

True. But Civil War is very very far from the greatest crossover in history.



Also, another weird thing I noticed. Why is S.H.E.I.L.D. enforcing a U.S. law? S.H.E.I.L.D. is an international organization. Like if the CIA and Interpol had a love child that takes steroids. The registration act should be none of their concern.

I never said it was or implied it.


And yes, that has been bothering me.

 

[The Question]

I never said it was or implied it.

I know.

 

[Darthphere]

But yeah, I could care less about the other nitpicks, the SHIELD thing is bothering me. Its like if the UN started handing out jaywalking tickets.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

SHIELD's probably enforcing the law because Millar believes Ultimate and 616 SHIELD are the same. SHIELD's a US organization in the former.

 

[LouFerignoDemon]

Captain America being the strategist that he is, knew from the onset that they were going to end up fighting. As soon as the trap we sprung, Iron Man's team took out the teleporters. Captain America knew his team wasn't walking out of there, whether they signed or not. He didn't recruit the YA, he saved them from incarceration when they got busted from superhero-ing. The YA were already on Cap's side, even if they weren't openly recruited. Just by refusing to sign, Iron Man and Shield will be looking for you, and you will sign or your going down. That was the point Iron Man gave to Cage as well.
WHat i bold typed made no sense. Cap brought up the legit point that now that he's gone public, every known super-villian, thug, and thief, that Peter has stopped, knows exactly where he lives. Whats to stop Sandman from taking revenge on Mary Jane and Aunt May every time Spiderman's out saving the world with the Avengers.

First off, he took the YA to his hideout and said, "Welcome to the Resistance." He didn't try to persuade them, he didn't say, "Go home, you don't need to be in this." He just said they were in the resistance.

And if Cap was such a good strategist, there would have been better decisions made. But this has been covered elsewhere.

 

[The Question]

But yeah, I could care less about the other nitpicks, the SHIELD thing is bothering me. Its like if the UN started handing out jaywalking tickets.

Jaywalking tickets in America, to be more percise. S.H.E.I.L.D.'s main function is to insure international security. The U.S. cracking down on costumed vigilantes is the least of their concern.

SHIELD's probably enforcing the law because Millar believes Ultimate and 616 SHIELD are the same. SHIELD's a US organization in the former.

Maybe. By the way, what exactly does SHEILD do in The Ultimates? I mean, how are they any different from the CIA?

 

[Darthphere]

SHIELD's probably enforcing the law because Millar believes Ultimate and 616 SHIELD are the same. SHIELD's a US organization in the former.

Thank you for stating the obvious.

 

[Darthphere]

Maybe. By the way, what exactly does SHEILD do in The Ultimates? I mean, how are they any different from the CIA?

Theyre bigger *****.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Thank you for stating the obvious.

I will punch you in the face with an infant.

 

[Willowhugger]

I think the point about S.H.I.E.L.D is actually fairly clearly stated. Maria Hill is a shill for the United States' President that Fury hated (see The Black Widow miniseries) and the only reason that she's in charge is because the international community still thinks that Nick Fury is in charge and he's internationally trusted.

Effectively, it is explained away legally as SHIELD helping a nation with an internal matter by request, which is what they do. They're also trying to treat rogue superheroes as superpowered terrorists.

 

[The Question]

That doesn't make any sense for two reasons:

1) Making the world believe that Fury is still in charge is a crime. And they're not really doing that good a job at covering it up.

2) SHEILD helping with the registration act would be like the CIA or the FBI helping a small city deal with street gangs. Complete departure from the organization's intended purpose.

 

[Willowhugger]

That doesn't make any sense for two reasons:

1) Making the world believe that Fury is still in charge is a crime. And they're not really doing that good a job at covering it up.

2) SHEILD helping with the registration act would be like the CIA or the FBI helping a small city deal with street gangs. Complete departure from the organization's intended purpose.

1. Kidnapping is also a crime, they're guilty of that too. Also gun running, whatever the hell was up in the savage land, supporting HYDRA efforts (suspicion only but clearly they're up to it).

2. As stated it seems they want to portray this as terrorism rather than street gangs. Given some of the power wielded, its not COMPLETELY ridiculous. Especially given Shield is the only group with enough power to take down superhumans.

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

1. On what planet in what universe does BARON ZEMO get a government job? He's a gawd damned Nazi!

*chuckle* Yeah, imagine a high-level Nazi, responsible for thousands of deaths getting a security-sensitive position in the American government.
Dude, crack a history book...

 

[Willowhugger]

*chuckle* Yeah, imagine a high-level Nazi, responsible for thousands of deaths getting a security-sensitive position in the American government.
Dude, crack a history book...

There's a difference between government scientists and appointing Hitler.

 

[PhotoJones]

Especially given Shield is the only group with enough power to take down superhumans.

apparently not, considering what luke cage, captain america, falcon and daredevil did to them.

 

[Willowhugger]

True enough

Though they seem to be doing fine with the B-listers.

 

[danielisthor]

First off, he took the YA to his hideout and said, "Welcome to the Resistance." He didn't try to persuade them, he didn't say, "Go home, you don't need to be in this." He just said they were in the resistance.

And if Cap was such a good strategist, there would have been better decisions made. But this has been covered elsewhere.

Considering the YA's only other option at that point is a GOVERNMENT PRISON . In case your actually not reading Civil War, which you must not be, let me point out one of the major points of the story for you, IF YOU DON'T REGISTER WITH THE GOVERNMENT, THEN YOU ARE AN OUTLAW COMBATANT AND YOU WILL BE HUNTED DOWN AND ARRESTED. AT WHICH POINT YOU WILL REGISTER AND BECOME "LEGAL" OR YOU WILL GO TO PRISON, PRESUMABLY FOR LIFE.

Once again, you didn't read anything that was posted, maybe just what you wanted to read and understand. There is nobody on Earth 616 that is better at what he does than Captain America. When he realized the situation he was in, which was a basically a no-win situation, he took out the leader, Iron Man.

 

[PhotoJones]

Considering the YA's only other option at that point is a GOVERNMENT PRISON . In case your actually not reading Civil War, which you must not be, let me point out one of the major points of the story for you, IF YOU DON'T REGISTER WITH THE GOVERNMENT, THEN YOU ARE AN OUTLAW COMBATANT AND YOU WILL BE HUNTED DOWN AND ARRESTED. AT WHICH POINT YOU WILL REGISTER AND BECOME "LEGAL" OR YOU WILL GO TO PRISON, PRESUMABLY FOR LIFE.

Once again, you didn't read anything that was posted, maybe just what you wanted to read and understand. There is nobody on Earth 616 that is better at what he does than Captain America. When he realized the situation he was in, which was a basically a no-win situation, he took out the leader, Iron Man.

pretty much.

 

[3dman27]

one question about the SHRA
aren't superheroes allowed to RETIRE order to avoid prosicution under the act or was that part a hoax to entrap them into covert ops?

 

[Brainiac 8]

10. Has Captain America lost his mind too. He sucker punches IRON MAN and expects to walk away from it easily. He recruits the Young Avengers into a battle that they can't win and will take them away from their families. He also insults Spidey to his face before comes crawling in Amazing Spiderman. It's weird.

While I understand where your coming from with most of them, this one I don't.

Captain America didn't suckerpunch Iron Man. Iron Man shot two of Caps guys first, totally unprevoked. Cap was then just protecting his own team. If you were with your friends, and someone shoots them down, would you then try to talk some sense into them, or do something a little more drastic about it?

Cap was totally justified in what he did.

 

[TheCorpulent1]

Cap's been totally justified in pretty much everything. It's not surprising, given that he represents the left-wing ideology here and Millar's a very left-wing writer.