Legend of Zelda Offical The Legend of Zelda Thread

[Wolvieboy17]

I haven't played this game yet, but I agree with Thundercrack about the principle of motion control games sometimes taking you out the action. With regular controls, it just feels second nature so you don't have to think. That doesn't mean it has to be button mashing though, more that the complexity isn't in what buttons you press but rather the time, speed etc with how you do it. I find with motion controls, you suddenly have to be aware of what your arm/hand is actually doing, what direction it is going etc, in a way you don't have to be with regular controls.

Although, again, I haven't played this game yet, and I certainly haven't found this the case with ALL motion control games, but it definitely gets tricky with the games that seem so heavily reliant on it.

 

[jacobed]

This is the first game that actually takes advantage of the motion control. All other games are just waggling, any way you want to look at it, its just waggling. In this game while you can do the waggling at some points but for the most part its all about strategy in your attacks. If you show to the enemy that you're going to attack with a downward slash, they will block you every single time. You need to fool them, by showing that you're going to do one move but then switching to do another one. It's all about thinking and timing your attacks.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

See, the way you describe that, while interesting and strategic, doesn't seem particularly immersive or exciting. Maybe I'll look at some gameplay vids.

Would you say that makes the combat fast paced or slower?

 

[Wolvieboy17]

See, the way you describe that, while interesting and strategic, doesn't seem particularly immersive or exciting. Maybe I'll look at some gameplay vids.

Would you say that makes the combat fast paced or slower?

 

[Spade]

Yes, it takes precision to hit a guarded foe, and you have to both misdirect them and strike quickly. But once you get that first hit in, you can waggle for the rest of the hits. In fact, the fight with Ghirahim becomes a chore if you don't waggle the controller for as many hits as you can get once you've tagged him.

I find with motion controls, you suddenly have to be aware of what your arm/hand is actually doing, what direction it is going etc, in a way you don't have to be with regular controls.

This wouldn't be an issue if the Wii had a greater detection range than what's directly in front of the sensor bar. Skyward Sword has the 1:1 motion control it advertises, but after the first time you fall out of that range, you become very aware that the "sword as an extension of yourself" goal they made for themselves missed the mark.

 

[WolfCypher]

So you hate that a game is a bit challenging for once. That instead of throwing canon fodder enemies at you, each one makes you think and react differently. You hate that for the first time in a game youre actually a part of the combat instead of just pressing x a bunch of times over and over again.

Yup.

I hate gimmicky controls in general, the WM+ takes them to an even higher level.

I hate how you need a perfect thrust of the controller to successfully strike a foe.

I hate how once again, certain actions require needlessly swinging and shaking each hand like a manic instead of button combinations.

I hate how instead of pointing the Wiimote at a target to steer (Beetle, flying) you actually have to sway your entire arm.

A bit more challenging? That would be fine if we were talking about harder dungeons, bosses, etc. But when the controls fight with you, ask way too much of you, when the controls AREN'T FUN and makes a recreational game WORK, then yeah, I stand firm with my opinion.

I would embrace "pressing X over and over" over these controls. That was basically Bayonetta to a tee...Gee, I had great fun with that.

 

[Thundercrack85]

The Wiimote just seems poorly designed for this type of game.

I've said it before, but it's actually become more of an annoyance as the game goes on. Remember how in Ocarina of Time your items were assigned to specific buttons? Here you constantly have to cycle through menus to switch items / weapons in-game.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Actually, the thing I hated more than anything with the Wii controls had nothing to do with motion controls, it was just the one handed joystick. I found it really imprecise, making it harder to have full control over walking speeds etc. It made simply opening a chest in Twilight Princess a battle. I'm curious to see how the Wii 2 controllers handle.

 

[Gold Samurai]

Yes, it takes precision to hit a guarded foe, and you have to both misdirect them and strike quickly. But once you get that first hit in, you can waggle for the rest of the hits. In fact, the fight with Ghirahim becomes a chore if you don't waggle the controller for as many hits as you can get once you've tagged him.

Oh man. It felt like I was right there fighting him Ghirahim.

When he caught the sword I had to "wrestle" back and forth to free it.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

I watched the first 40 minutes of gameplay. Didn't mind spoiling anything for myself since a) I probably won't be able to play it for a while, until i can get my hands on a Wii or Wii 2 and b) The intro to a Zelda game always really psyches me up more than spoils anything, and here are my thoughts.

Pros, it looks fantastic, really great graphics and they impress me a lot more than any trailer or vid has done for me so far. Even the blurry, oil painting look that i thought was a bit iffy looks great. It's like, whenever you stand perfectly still, the whole screen turns into a Van Gogh painting, really cool. Also, the flying segments looked great, I couldn't get over how detailed the birds movement was, with all the feathers flapping etc. Really nice for a Nintendo game. Also, story seemed cool, although a LITTLE bit too Zelda DS, but I had a pretty strong feeling that would diminish once you get into temples etc. Also, the instant sense of nostalgia etc was great, the game just seems to ooze charm. Funnily enough, it really, really strongly reminded me of a Hiyo Miyazaki film, which is a great thing in my opinion.

Cons, and this could get some criticism from some of you, but I really think there are some ways this franchise needs to grow. I understand the tropes and traditions of a Zelda game, but some of those text boxes got really, really tiresome. I don't mind the lack of voice acting, but I think they could really make a concerted effort to make the dialogue a lot more interesting. There was so much "Oh, hey Link. How are you? Look over here and press this button! Now you can climb up boxes! Now do this!" I think games have developed beyond that point, and it's not a graphics thing, but just in sheer game design, it made all the tutorial stuff just look and feel like such a chore. You don't need to hold gamers hands so completely.

Also, with the cutscenes themselves, I think this might be the last game they can get away with out having voice actors. I understand the concept of the Zelda games having that charm of sound effects and text boxes, and I loved that in past games, don't get me wrong. I STILL have fun doing impressions of the man-fish from Windwaker that used to pop out and go 'Kehhhhhhhhhh' when the started talking to you.

But this game, the characters don't just stand statically with funny faces like they did in past games, they actually speak with their mouths flapping to the words and gesticulate and everything, allowing time for the words to be said, which I don't think has the same charm at all. It only just highlights the fact that there IS no dialogue, which I think is a weakness. I think for the next game, they need to pick one or the other, no dialogue with old school character animation and presentation or voice acting. I'm fine with my Link responding with just a head nod, or an open mouth stare like Windwaker, because that WAS cute and charming, but 'wavy arms flappy mouth' Link just doesn't have the same effect for me.

Also, minor nitpick, but it annoys me a little how the sword is SO responsive, that it makes Link hold it in awkward places when he's just running. He looks a bit dorky when waving it around his head and everything. I liked it in TP when he'd run with the sword by his side as a default.

Anyway, just my feedback. I really did love the look and feel for the game overall. It made me realise how much I would LOVE a Hiyo Miyazaki Zelda film :P

 

[Thundercrack85]

I hope you're right Wolvieboy. The lack of proper voice acting wouldn't bother me so much here, except that they actually do talk sometimes. And it's not all gibberish like Midna, for example, Beedle actually says "thank you". And there are plenty of other people uttering short sentences or words. Zelda even sings, albeit incomprehensibly so.

Thus far, I find it one of the weaker 3D Zelda titles (keep in mind, that includes some incredible games). It starts somewhat slowly, and the story plays it safe for the most part for a Zelda. The first few dungeons of the game essentially have you looking for Zelda, at times rather cluelessly, in a story sense. I was expecting to find a Toad telling me she was in a different castle. The series has had a few pacing problems over the years.

But it has made improvements as well. New depths of gameplay, orchestrated music, better use of money, more items to buy, Majora's Mask style side quests. They seem to have borrowed some ideas from Spirit Tracks. The AI's intelligence has also noticeably increased (especially for bosses). Cutscenes are more cinematic (but still obviously limited by the lack of spoken dialogue).

Overall, I would say it's a good game, but it suffers from the same problems most games in the series have had. Strict linear progression, formulaic gameplay and story (in this case, Zelda is in another temple).

I will admit that I prefer the more dark, realistic, medieval-esque atmosphere of Twilight Princess and Ocarina of Time. Not that I hold an art style against a game. I consider Wind Waker to be in many ways superior to Twilight Princess.

 

[Scarecrow_King]

this game is kicking ass so far. I'm about 10 hours in and completely in love with it. Wolvie is right, there is a lot of hand holding early on, but it does get better after the first couple hours. And there seems to always be a thing in the Zelda games about Link's helper/companion always talking way too much. I always find myself not reading the text and just repeatedly hitting A to skip Fi telling me what I obviously already know.

But so far, I'm loving the story. Obvious deep ties to Ocarina, which I can't wait to see how they play out. The gameplay is reminiscent of classic Zelda with some really cool added depth from the Wii Remote Plus. And I really friggin love the art style; the water color look works incredibly well with the tone of the story.

I'm not finished with the game yet, but I would easily give it a 9.5 out of 10 so far.

 

[Hordakfan]

Count me in as a fan of Zelda for 24 years since i was 6 when i got my NES for my birthday with SMB/Duckhunt and the original game included, the shiny gold NES box made it felt like a king among video games and what a game it was. I even got the black sheep of the series known as Zelda II: Link's Awakening with the black sheep of the SMB games known as Super Mario Brothers 2 for christmas the next year when i was 7 and collected Zelda games since except for the CD-I which i never had and don't think would ever own after all the horrible things i've heard. I even ate the Nintendo Entertainment System Cereal when i was 8 (Remember that?) which has Zelda and Mario cereal and even ate the fruit snacks to watching Super Mario Brothers Super Show with Zelda.

I can't wait for the new game to get for christmas.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I haven't read anyone's posts since this came out. Saving it for Christmas since I have Skyrim and other games to play before then. But how much does everyone hate this? More or less than every Zelda game since Ocarina of Time?

 

[Thundercrack85]

I haven't read anyone's posts since this came out. Saving it for Christmas since I have Skyrim and other games to play before then. But how much does everyone hate this? More or less than every Zelda game since Ocarina of Time?

Seems like Zelda fans hate every new game when it comes out, then look back fondly on it come the next game.

I will say this for Skyward Sword, unlike Twilight Princess, it's not trying to be Ocarina of Time.

 

[jacobed]

After playing it again the beginning 3 hours is ridiculous in hand holding, the rpg elements while nice they finally put them in the game are pretty pointless. Fi is really annoying. Gameplay is pretty perfect except for I hate controlling the bird with the wiimote and thrusting doesnt work like the rest of sword swinging does. Theyve taken big steps in this game towards having a great story and changing up the Zelda formula. Im lookin forward to see where they take the next game.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Personally, I'm hoping for the next Zelda game to take some huge steps forwards, rather than sideways.

 

[jacobed]

This game is definitely a step in the right direction and they're really smart in hiring a young team to make these games now instead of the old team. They'll bring some fresh ideas to the table like they did with Skyward Sword

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Doesn't seem like a huge step forwards though, does it? I mean, as fun and deep as the game may be, a lot of the best things are improvements over things they tried to get right the first time in Twilight Princess, like motion control. The only real innovation I can see is the embracing of more RPG elements. Of all the praise I've heard from this game, most of it are things like "Best Zelda game since Ocarina" or "It's got the great sidequests from Majoras, the great visuals from Windwaker" etc. I think for the next Zelda game, especially since it will be on the Wii 2, more advanced hardware, they should really try to blow it out of the water. I think it's about time for the Zelda series to take a massive leap forward, not just another few steps.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

I think for the next Zelda game, especially since it will be on the Wii 2, more advanced hardware, they should really try to blow it out of the water. I think it's about time for the Zelda series to take a massive leap forward, not just another few steps.

In other words, it doesn't matter what they add to the game, it won't be a huge improvement to you until a Zelda game has HD graphics.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

No, in other words, it'd be nice to see a difference in the franchise after two generations of consoles have been and gone.

 

[Spidey-Bat]

Nah, the "more advanced hardware" is just another way of saying "I want HD graphics."

That's how every Zelda critic is. Until Nintendo makes one with HD graphics, they just dismiss the new features as a gimmick.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Well thanks for telling how I think. Unfortunately, like every Zelda fanboy, you're narrow minded and can't see beyond your own opinion. I have no problem whatsoever with how this Zelda game looks. I said as much when I posted all my impressions of the game on this very page. I think it looks fantastic. I've always been a fan of stylised graphics.

So how about we try this again? You honestly think more advanced hardware is ONLY about graphics? How about scope? Size of a game world, more detailed mechanics, higher levels of interaction? I mean, what is the point of working with more advanced hardware if you don't use that to it's full potential?

I mean, there are games franchises this gen that have deviated more from their origin title more than Zelda has since Ocarina. No one's talking about taking away anything from the Zelda series, but with advanced hardware, you could simply add more of it.

And btw, I'm not a 'Zelda Critic' as you put it, I'm a Zelda fan, have been for a long time. I've talked with you about Zelda games before though, and I'm yet to ever see you post anything objective about the franchise. You take anything that isn't blind adoration as elitist criticism and it is rather annoying. Just because you love something, doesn't mean you can't wish for it to be bigger and greater than it already is. Nintendo try new things here and there, but for the most part, they tend to play it pretty safe with their big first party titles, not deviating too much from a formula. I'd simply like to see them take a few more risks.

 

[Thundercrack85]

Taking risks is what made Majora's Mask the great game it is. Also Ocarina of Time, since people had their doubts about the transition to 3D.

And we're pretty much guaranteed HD graphics for the next console.

 

[Wolvieboy17]

Majora's Mask is an excellent example of how they shook up the formula, and that was only the 2nd 3D Zelda game. I'd love something that feels different like that, without losing any of the touches that have made the series great. They just need to shake things up a little, I think. I love the RPG direction they've headed in though, I hope that's something they expand on.