Official Batman Titles thread 2.0

[Mr. Earle]

Since the old thread maxed, here's a new one.

 

[Saved]

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[Ipodman]

Batman 701 and 702 is the last time we will be touching on the whole RIP-Final-Crisis thing right? I hope the story moves along already, because honestly I still don't understand Final Crisis.

Oh, great artwork on those 2 issues!

 

[Frankenmation]

Batman 701 and 702 is the last time we will be touching on the whole RIP-Final-Crisis thing right? I hope the story moves along already, because honestly I still don't understand Final Crisis.

I don't think it will be the last time - Return of Bruce Wayne which has been referencing it hasn't finished yet, and it might pop up in Batman & Robin as well.

 

[Saved]

Yeah, with issue 16 possibly - that's what Batman 702 said the story would continue in (in addition to ROBW 5 and 6).

 

[Mr. Earle]

Batman 701 and 702 is the last time we will be touching on the whole RIP-Final-Crisis thing right? I hope the story moves along already, because honestly I still don't understand Final Crisis.

Oh, great artwork on those 2 issues!

I agree. FC is very comfusing and there are many reasons for that:

1) Morrison uses a lot of obscure and old characters of the DCU. If you only know Batman, Superman, etc, you re ****ed.
2) Classic case of big event: Many tie ins which confuse and disorientate. I think only "Superman Beyond" is necessary besides the main issues.
3) Morrison's hectic writing. He's trying to show that reality is crushing down so the more it collapses, the more past, present and future happen at the same time, so he writes the story in a choppy style.
4) There is some sort of metatext which i've forgotten now. Something about the fact that FC is so choppy that its barely a cohesive story, and yet its still a story. Maybe Rikdad's blog has some analysis of it.

That said, its a great story of epic proportions and its probably the first time the New Gods arent treated as super powerful soap characters, but actual deities. I also like how the story starts with evil having already won. Darkseid kills Orion, the man who's supposed to kill him (well he did mortally wound him) and as he is slowly dying, he goes to Earth to drag it down with him.

I only fully understood it when it was "storytimed" in 4chan (it took hours) and there was a discussion going on while the story was posted. And now i have forgotten most of it.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Subscribe.

Ditto

 

[Frankenmation]

2) Classic case of big event: Many tie ins which confuse and disorientate. I think only "Superman Beyond" is necessary besides the main issues.

Yeah, that was one of the problems with FC - Superman Beyond was essential to the whole story yet it wasn't marketed that way. It's included in the trade though, so it's not a problem any more for new readers.

For me, Final Crisis was um, a bit of a mixed bag. It was a bit confusing and it often felt like I had skipped 3 pages as I was reading it since it kept jumping from storyline to storyline to storyline. Other than that though I liked it, it was interesting to say the (very) least.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Yeah, that was one of the problems with FC - Superman Beyond was essential to the whole story yet it wasn't marketed that way. It's included in the trade though, so it's not a problem any more for new readers.

For me, Final Crisis was um, a bit of a mixed bag. It was a bit confusing and it often felt like I had skipped 3 pages as I was reading it since it kept jumping from storyline to storyline to storyline. Other than that though I liked it, it was interesting to say the (very) least.

That's exactly what i meant by "Morrison's choppy writing". It feels like pages are missing, like Morrison was trying to catch a deadline or whatever, but its intentional because he wants to show you that reality is coming down. Towards the end, past, present and future are brought down into one moment. You have Superman fighting Darkseid, Diana telling the story in the future, Lois and Jimmy sending the rocket (also seen in RoBW btw. Bruce landed in the past just like Clark landed in Smallville), etc. After multiple readings and some help with the metatext (seriously, google Rikdad's blog, he has to have analyzed it) FC will win you over.

But i will never like the deus ex machina miracle machine and that stupid crap about putting the whole world in the fridge. That was just stupid!

 

[SouLeSS]

I'm SO CONFUSED WHAT THREAD DO I POST IN?!

 

[Mystirious]

Batman 701 and 702 is the last time we will be touching on the whole RIP-Final-Crisis thing right? I hope the story moves along already, because honestly I still don't understand Final Crisis.

Oh, great artwork on those 2 issues!

I think that Return of Bruce Wayne issue six will be the conclusion

 

[GlasgowBat]

Doesn't Batman and Robin 16 come out after that? pretty sure it'll rap things up. Either that or Morrison's The Return.

Although, when you think about it, there really won't ever be a conclusion. The Culmination of all this is going to be The Return, which will then lead into Batman Inc, which will further the story itself. As Bruce notes in 702, "It never ends". I think that's kinda the point.

 

[Mystirious]

Doesn't Batman and Robin 16 come out after that? pretty sure it'll rap things up. Either that or Morrison's The Return.

Although, when you think about it, there really won't ever be a conclusion. The Culmination of all this is going to be The Return, which will then lead into Batman Inc, which will further the story itself. As Bruce notes in 702, "It never ends". I think that's kinda the point.

The Final Crisis and RIP plots will probably wrap up in Batman and Robin 16 then

I do not think they will be Carried over into Batman Inc

 

[Biga07405]

I agree. FC is very comfusing and there are many reasons for that:

1) Morrison uses a lot of obscure and old characters of the DCU. If you only know Batman, Superman, etc, you re ****ed.
2) Classic case of big event: Many tie ins which confuse and disorientate. I think only "Superman Beyond" is necessary besides the main issues.
3) Morrison's hectic writing. He's trying to show that reality is crushing down so the more it collapses, the more past, present and future happen at the same time, so he writes the story in a choppy style.
4) There is some sort of metatext which i've forgotten now. Something about the fact that FC is so choppy that its barely a cohesive story, and yet its still a story. Maybe Rikdad's blog has some analysis of it.

That said, its a great story of epic proportions and its probably the first time the New Gods arent treated as super powerful soap characters, but actual deities. I also like how the story starts with evil having already won. Darkseid kills Orion, the man who's supposed to kill him (well he did mortally wound him) and as he is slowly dying, he goes to Earth to drag it down with him.

I only fully understood it when it was "storytimed" in 4chan (it took hours) and there was a discussion going on while the story was posted. And now i have forgotten most of it.

hey I like big events

 

[Saved]

I forgot Orion was suppossed to kill Darkseid ... that makes so much sense now.
I like how Morrison uses characters that aren't mainstream though. It'll pique my interest in some long forgotten hero/villain, I'll go find an issue or something with them in it and be introduced to something comic history had forgotten.

 

[Mystirious]

I forgot Orion was suppossed to kill Darkseid ... that makes so much sense now.
I like how Morrison uses characters that aren't mainstream though. It'll pique my interest in some long forgotten hero/villain, I'll go find an issue or something with them in it and be introduced to something comic history had forgotten.

Agreed

I thought Final Crisis was rather neat

It was a bit too much like Rock of Ages though

 

[hippie_hunter]

The problem with Final Crisis is that it tried to jam in far too much and needed to be longer as well. Final Crisis: Requiem should have been a part of Final Crisis proper. More focus should have been given to Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, and Barry Allen. And Darkseid should have been the only villain.

 

[Mr. Earle]

The problem with Final Crisis is that it tried to jam in far too much and needed to be longer as well. Final Crisis: Requiem should have been a part of Final Crisis proper. More focus should have been given to Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, and Barry Allen. And Darkseid should have been the only villain.

I agree. I didnt like how the whole plot is about the New Gods and Darkseid, and when he dies, secret final boss stage: space vampire out of ****ing nowhere! Well, not out of nowhere, he was in Superman Beyond, but he seemed like an afterthough in FC. Mandrak should have been in FC from the start, or preferrably not at all.


On another note, i started reading DC One Million and it is awesome! Great story (despite the often bad art) and Batman 1.000.000 is all kinds of badass!

 

[GlasgowBat]

But Mandrak wasn't an add on, he was the culmination of the whole monitors story, which was actually the integral story element.

 

[Nightwing 52]

*Enters threads*

*Subscribes*

*Vanishes with smoke bomb*

 

[Tron Bonne]

I forgot Orion was suppossed to kill Darkseid ... that makes so much sense now.

Apparently everyone outside Jim ****ing Starlin forgot that, and his whole Death of the New Gods thing doesn't matter since it's Countdown and FC followed Seven Soldiers of Victory.

 

[Saved]

Apparently everyone outside Jim ****ing Starlin forgot that, and his whole Death of the New Gods thing doesn't matter since it's Countdown and FC followed Seven Soldiers of Victory.

Yeah, the continuity behind pre-Final Crisis was really screwed up. I don't think all of Countdown was even cannon according to the stuff I've read from other reviewers and such.

Luckily, Final Crisis' story was able to be followed without any prelude but, some explainations a head of time for some things wouldn't have hurt.

 

[Tron Bonne]

Yeah, the continuity behind pre-Final Crisis was really screwed up. I don't think all of Countdown was even cannon according to the stuff I've read from other reviewers and such.

Yeah, it more or less has been out and out ignored. I think some vague things have kept, but as a whole, it's forgotten.

Luckily, Final Crisis' story was able to be followed without any prelude but, some explainations a head of time for some things wouldn't have hurt.

Well, if you read Seven Soldiers of Victory, the end of it is kind of a pseudo-prelude to Final Crisis (basically tells how and why the New Gods are in the state they are in at the beginning of FC).

 

[Saved]

Yeah, it more or less has been out and out ignored. I think some vague things have kept, but as a whole, it's forgotten.



Well, if you read Seven Soldiers of Victory, the end of it is kind of a pseudo-prelude to Final Crisis (basically tells how and why the New Gods are in the state they are in at the beginning of FC).

I have to get around to reading that at some point, then. The only thing I knew about was the Darkside club thanks to Terror Titans - other than that, I was completely ignorant to the goings on before FC. I've heard positive things about 7 soldiers anyways, was it truly good?

 

[Anubis]

Do you like Grant Morrison's crazy? If you do, then it was great. If you don't, then you fail as a human being or whatevs.