Comics Official Fans of Reilly Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
I thought so at first too, but it looks like Kaine has almost zero clone degeneration, compared to Lost Years where he was a bumpy, pock-marked mess. The events of this HAVE to take place before Lost Years, as Ben isn't using Seward as a reference, as he should have. Or else Seward is just simply not being mentioned to avoid confusion. Anyway, Ben bounced around a bit before Lost Years working at labs, so this fits pretty well.

Again, this is an artistic complaint. Personally I don't see much difference in Kaine's appearance in this and 'Lost Years'. They both look like scraggly, dirty bums with Alan Moore-style hair. But if you see a difference, that's your take. However, that can't be blamed on Guggenheim.

Also to your earlier point. Kaine is NOT an exact copy of Peter like Ben was. He has the same basic genetic code, but he was twisted and abused by Jackal early in his life and never given Peter's RNA code which had Peter's memories and ethics. The degeneration, twisted powers, early abuse and lack of RNA coding all led him to become what he is. Ben was like Peter in every way, except for five years on the road. Kaine had many more differences, not only in his experiences, but in his construction. If he showed signs of physical degeneration, maybe he has mental or emotional degeneration too.
 
I'm compiling a list of places Ben visited during his 'Lost Years' (the rule is, it has to have been shown in a flashback). With the new arc, we get another unique location that he travelled to during his time on the road. These are not in chronological order.

Salt Lake City, Utah (Spider-Man: The Lost Years) : This is where Ben met Janine and where Kaine killed Louise Kennedy.

Rachel, Vermont (Amazing Spider-Man #405 (the 'Exiled' arc): This is where Ben first meets Seward Trainer.

Santa Cruz, California (Spider-Man: Redemption): This is where Kaine forces Janine to fake her death.

New Orleans, Louisiana (Spider-Man Team-Up #5) This is where Ben stays with a shop-owner named Nellie and fights a corrupt police officer Creaux who paralyzes Ben with some voodoo dust.

Portland, Oregon (Amazing Spider-Man #608-610) This is where Ben works for geneticist Damon Ryder. He also has a rematch with Kaine here.


(I wanted to include pics of Ben in all these places, but I cannot find any scans of Ben in New Orleans or Vermont online. :csad: )

Is there any places I'm forgetting?
 
No, sir, I did not like it. Not only was the ending predicted by several people here, but it completely destroyed any character development Kaine had before he disappeared. This wasn't a good Kaine story, and it wasn't the best the character's ever been. His motivations made no sense, on top of everything else. Coming from the guy who had Wolverine regenerate from nothing, I wasn't expecting much and I definitely got just that.
 
Just checking in!


It's been a while but I'm glad to see Scarlet and everyone back in the books. I don't have a computer on a regular basis hence my departure of this site and thread!

I've found the stories quite lacking, but I'm loving that the characters were finally brought back all the same. This way, hopefully, it will open them up for further use in the future.

I haven't finished the Amazing story yet, I'm busy all the time and have yet to pick up the final issue.

As for The Clone Saga, this is in some ways the real let down for me. I was hoping for the original storyline as it might have been, but this is clearly not supposed to be the original storyline at all, but rather just a big nod and thank you to all the Clone Saga fans. This would never work as a separate storyline.. some of the biggest moments are relegated to off page remarks. Oh, MJ is pregnant, oh I've been the Scarlet Spider for months... Yeah, okay. I guess I'm just a little bitter because I want so much more of this! I wish it was 12 issues, not 6. I want it expanded, and retold, and told again.

Damn I missed Scarlet.

Anywho, stay classy all.
 
Yeah, I didn't care for the first issue and after reading these reviews I won't be picking up the last couple either. This was he Spider-Man team's chance to catch my interest. The Clone Saga stuff was the ONLY thing that could possibly pull me back into the fold, even tempararilly, and they couldn't even keep me for more than one issue. With this tidbit finished I can officially say that there is nothing in Spider-Man anymore that has me curious. Good riddance.

As for the Clone Saga, I'm probably done with that too. The art kills me and it's so choppy feeling that I find I just don't care. They say this was how it was originally supposed to be told but I just don't get that feeling. It feels more like they took how it was originally supposed to be told and then added aspects of the original Clone Saga and are mashing them. I loved the original and this just feels like a watered down cheep copy. Not interesting at all.
 
Kaine is NOT an exact copy of Peter like Ben was. He has the same basic genetic code, but he was twisted and abused by Jackal early in his life and never given Peter's RNA code which had Peter's memories and ethics.

Sorry, in which title/issue did we learn that he was never given the RNA? I consider myself well-versed in all-things Kaine, but I also consider myself a forgetful doofus. Please good sir, enlighten me. This little "tidbit" would make quite a major difference in the character to some like I.
 
Sorry, in which title/issue did we learn that he was never given the RNA? I consider myself well-versed in all-things Kaine, but I also consider myself a forgetful doofus. Please good sir, enlighten me. This little "tidbit" would make quite a major difference in the character to some like I.

Sure. In ASM #149 when Jackal knocks Spidey/Peter out and before the two Spider-Men awaken in Yankee (or Shea) Stadium, Ben Reilly's memories are updated to the point where Peter was knocked out earlier. That's why they don't know who the original is and who isn't. The clone was created with DNA months earlier from some college project Miles conducted with Peter and Gwen in his class, but the updated RNA was extracted in #149. Kaine was inferior, he was never given RNA coding and never had his memories of being a pod-baby erased, so he never had reason to believe he was the original. It's total junk comic-book science, but it was stated in the 'Power and Responsibility' back-up and I think restated in the 'Osborn Journal'.

Without the RNA code, Ben would have no up-to-date memories, and would also still remember being hatched in Jackal's lab.
 
Last edited:
Again, this is an artistic complaint. Personally I don't see much difference in Kaine's appearance in this and 'Lost Years'. They both look like scraggly, dirty bums with Alan Moore-style hair. But if you see a difference, that's your take. However, that can't be blamed on Guggenheim.

Also to your earlier point. Kaine is NOT an exact copy of Peter like Ben was. He has the same basic genetic code, but he was twisted and abused by Jackal early in his life and never given Peter's RNA code which had Peter's memories and ethics. The degeneration, twisted powers, early abuse and lack of RNA coding all led him to become what he is. Ben was like Peter in every way, except for five years on the road. Kaine had many more differences, not only in his experiences, but in his construction. If he showed signs of physical degeneration, maybe he has mental or emotional degeneration too.

I suppose one could pass this of as an artistic complaint, but since Guggenheim went back to pull the Dr. Epstein reference, he could have also noted Kaine's state as of that series, he got really bad in issue 2.

Kaine.jpg


Yet for some reason he is fine by the past events in Who was Ben Reilly. I understand this is a minor artistic difference for you, but it's a little more than that for me. I get that Kaine's appearance was never really consistant, after he got his regenerative suit and all, but it seems like he should have been way more messed up in this new arc. As for his appearance in Web of Spider-Man 1, at that point who knows exactly when it takes place, or what the scientists have done to him.

As far as the RNA... DNA... all of that... I mean I guess I can see what you're saying (though I don't totally understand it) the point is that none of that is explained in this story, we simply know that Ben and Kaine are clones of Peter. Peter decides that Ben couldn't be a murderer because he had the same DNA. Which is also shared by Kaine.

I mean you can explain it away all you like to yourself, we all have our own opinions, we can't change each others, but I think Peter's whole reasoning for believing Ben couldn't have been the killer was a realization he could have come to in say that last panel there in the Annual. Did he really need three issues to be like, "Nah, Ben is a good guy."

The reader always knew Ben was essentially Peter, just stripped of Peter's life and allowed to grow on his own a bit. The worry was that this story would attempt to change Ben's character in some odd way. It didn't... fair enough, but the fact that the guy killed his OWN family and went on for years hunting Ben/Peter is a little weak. I mean, if someone had posted, after that Annual had come out, "Don't worry guys, it turns out Ryder murders his own family and blames Ben." I think we'd have all wondered why the hell bother with the story. Guggenheim had a great idea with having a villain come after Peter, not for being Spider-Man, but for something he thought Peter did, it was just poorly (in my opinion) executed.
 
From Jinxworld, some really pretty maybe clone-related artwork...

http://www.606studios.com/bendisboard/showthread.php?t=185035

Speculative spoilers ahead.....

ASMPrelude05.jpg





So apparently Peter kills Kaine, Spider-Woman (all), Venom, Ezekiel, Ben Reilly and a bunch of other Spider-like creatures in Michael Lark's new mini-series. The art looks cool, but I have no idea what context this pic is in. Will be interesting to find out if it's a dream, hallucination, alternate reality or whatnot.

EDIT: Not mini-series, but actual upcoming run in ASM. I must have missed the news of Lark coming onboard.
 
Last edited:
Wow marvel is really pushing all the clone-related stuff alot lately huh? I wonder if they're planning something....?
 
Hmm I wonder if this pertains to the Gauntlet. I remember in that 2 page spread in 600, it showed a panel of Spider-Woman in some sort of danger.
 
Well, all those "dead" people have something to do with spiders, and in ASM #600, Madam Web says something along the lines about how they're killing all the spiders...

:yay:
 
Wow... I'm excited to see what this is...
 
So, after reading the bit about Madame Web in 600 (which I had completely forgotten about) the Gauntlet is a chain of events which seem to be set up by a mother-daughter villain team (I think it has to do with Kraven's daughter). And they are in fact hunting spiders. Now, on that picture we have from what I can tell: Ben (YEAH!), The Spider chick who Ms. Marvel was training during Civil War, Anti-Venom, Ezekiel, both Spider-Women, Kaine and the Scarlet Spider from Initiative. Ezekiel and Ben are, at this point dead, but the others are all very much alive. I wonder, hope against hope, that Ben's inclusion in this picture (As Spider-Man, not Scarlet Spider, no less) means he may have some part left to play. What else could he being doing in this vision (most likely a hallucination) unless the people behind the gauntlet are behind Ben's death and that they have been hunting Spiders for a while. Who knows. Good to see Spider-Ben again though, damn good.

Now, another important fact, if it IS Kraven's daughter, thats means Spider-Man and Kaine will be targeted, as Spider-Man drove Kraven to suicide and Kaine outright killed the Grimm Hunter (Kraven's son).

Very exciting.
 
Love Ben, got me into the comics again in the 90s and was a great character. What Marvel and people don't get ois that people dont hate Ben, they hate that he was revealed to be the real Peter Parker. Everyone I met has been very loving of Ben.

But ya, if I ever wrote Spider-man, i would have a arc that was dedicated to something Ben did in the past that maybe Peter has to deal with today, and bring back Kaine. One of my fav stories is when the Grim Hunter is hunting Ben thinking he is Spider-Man and then is killed by Kaine. His first arc as Scarlet Spider when he took out Venom was cool to.

I have the exculsive Kay Bee Scarlet Spider figure From Spider-Man Classics proudly on my wall.

LOL I found this in some EARLY posts in this thread.

Guggenheim!?
 
Although I don't think it holds any value and I think its just a teaser, that picture shown above gets me real excited about Ben's possible return. But, I shall be the first to point out that Ezekiel is dead. So how is he going to die again? Are they going to bring him back to life to kill him? Thats what makes me think its just a teaser. This picture intrigues me greatly.
 
Although I don't think it holds any value and I think its just a teaser, that picture shown above gets me real excited about Ben's possible return. But, I shall be the first to point out that Ezekiel is dead. So how is he going to die again? Are they going to bring him back to life to kill him? Thats what makes me think its just a teaser. This picture intrigues me greatly.

Ben and Ezekiel are both dead. I don't understand your post.
 
I was merely expressing that I think this picture is just a teaser for the Gauntlet and that I believe it holds no significance. Similar to those Seige teasers that are coming out everyday now.
 
I think it was described when it was posted as interior comic artwork, plus the inset panel of a close-up on Spider-Man's face seems to strongly suggest comic page, not poster. Plus this would be the first time i'd ever seen pencils for a preview poster published online, whereas you see interior art previews all the time.

That said, I won't hold my breath over his return, just hope he gets some sort of involvement.
 
Ahh, good point. So, not a teaser. Maybe a nightmare sequence? Who knows.
 
Now that marvel seems to be capitalizing on the clone saga once again, do you think maybe Marvel should make another one of their animated films, similar to Iron Man and Ultimate Avengers 1& 2 but this time about the clone saga (not the new one, the old one. ) I think it would be great. Hire rino romano as the voice of peter parker/ben reilly/kaine/spidercide and let marvel use that same japanese animation studio they used in the other films and give it a bare bones kind of script and we could have a real winner on our hands. It will at least act as kind of a love letter to the ben reilly fans and most importantly it wont muck up the continuity in any of the future live action spider-man movies.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"