Official: Fantastic Four 2 Novelization Discussion MAJOR SPOILERS!

Kelly

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Willie did this review for us over at the F4movies.com board. He did a great spoiler free job for us, so those that would like to read a review without spoilers, this is a good one. We've had some good discussion at the F4 movies forum, check it out as well....http://www.f4movies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=447

Willie Lumpkin at F4 Movies forum said:
Yep, just finished it. I'll try to hold way back on the spoilers, and if anyone wants any details, PM me, and I'll try to answer any questions you might have.

Overall impression: Somewhere between good and very good. There are a lot of great moments and a lot of scenes that seem like they could have been taken right out of the comics, but there are also some weak moments and flaws that prevent me from rating it "very good". I will say that it's a big improvement over the first film.

Kel, you should be happy to hear that it was very much "about the four". . . possibly too much so. Nearly the first third is very focused on the four and some relatively mundane goings on. Fun for a fan like me, but may be disappointing to people who aren't real interested in the four.

All four characters are more mature, and less whiney. Their relationships . . . while still punctuated by some good natured teasing and some tense moments act less like bickering little brats than they did in the first one. That's particularly noticable between Johnny and Sue who seem more like 20 something brother and sister who really care about each other . . . though neither one would say so in so many words.

Ben and Johnny also have a more mature relationship that is closer to what we see in the comics. Still some back and forth teasing, but not as childish as the first one.

Reed and Sue have a mature, loving relationship that is much closer to the comics. Less of Reed being a puppy dog and Sue leading him around by the nose. They handle bumps with maturity and calm, and the "love triangle" was, thankfully, non-existant (though Sue does fill the Alicia role in a way, but there isn't any insecurity on Reed's part). Have I ever mentioned how much I hate the cliche' angst-ridden romances of most comic book films? Thankfully this one captures the simple, real, unambiguous love between Reed and Sue that we see in the comics.

Reed is much more Reed, and, while there were a few frustrating out of character moments, for the most part it is a big improvement.

Johnny is probably the least changed character. As in the first film, he's a little more over the top than he was in the comics . . . but it works. His relationship with Frankie is interesting (but brief). If that relationship is continued into a third film, it could help to flesh out his character.

Ben is more comfortable and doesn't spend the film moping as he did in the first . . . but he also never quite breaks out to be the joking, self-effacing character from the comics. He has some moments, but I was hoping for more.

Sue is closer to her comics character. Taking her relationship with Victor out of the equation allows her to be the Sue who loves Reed whole-heartedly and less hesitantly than she did in the first film. And Jessica fans will be pleased to know there is a gratuitous nude scene for her (not sure exactly how they'll handle it on film). She gets to use her powers in some pretty cool ways, though they don't get as creative as we've seen in some of the comics.

That, and a several other questionable scenes could, depending on how they're handled, generate some cringes and some ammunition for those who want to dump on this film, unfortunately. There are SEVERAL plot holes/divergences from science and logic that will require the viewer to believe in a comic-book reality. . . you know, a reality in which a person wouldn't explode if hauled to the edge of the atmosphere and fantasticars can go something like 100,000 miles per hour . . . even though it has a listed top speed of 200 mph in the book and I think I saw it listed as 500 mph somewhere else.

The surfer is, for the most part, spot on.

Doom is one of the big weak points. While there are moments that his actions seem to be close to what we expect of classic Doom, and while he shows a bit more of his technical prowess, he's still a shadow of "real Doom", and after the talk of "full armor" . . . I'm afraid I just didn't see it anywhere (the book is a bit vague on physical descriptions, so it's possible there will be more in the film, but . . . for the most part Doom never came close to fulfilling his comics role or character.

Galactus . . . I can't really say much without spoiling things, but I was disappointed. From some things we have seen, it almost seemed like those elements were still a work-in-progress, so hopefully there will be some improvements over the book when it hits the big screen. . . but as it plays out in the book, fans of classic Galactus will be disappointed.

As I mentioned, the beginning was a bit slow, and the ending was a bit busy. The story could use better balance, and I was disappointed that so much was thrown into the story at times, that it didn't allow the reader to properly feel the scale of some of the events . . . with some good film techniques and pacing, it's possible the film could do a better job than the book.

It's hard to say how the story will translate. As I've mentioned, elements of the story are flawed, but there is also the possibility for some pretty spectacular visual elements. If properly done, some of these scenes could really be something.

. . .and considering nearly every comic film has had some flaws, even though I have some concerns with this story, there are elements that are much better than we have seen in other films. Certainly the danger is very real and failure of the heroes would be, unquestionably, catastrophic . . . if Tim Story is able to effectively convey the . . . SCALE . . . of the danger to the viewer, he could have a very intense story to tell. . . but the pacing and details of the book fail to really emphasize that . . . we're talking about the potential end of the world here guys.

Bottom Line - I'm looking forward to June 15th more than ever now.

Hope that gives everybody a good feel without spoiling too much. Like I say, if you want any details, let me know.

AS FAR AS THE REST OF THIS THREAD. I CAN'T GUARANTEE THAT PEOPLE WILL USE SPOILER TAGS WHEN NEEDED SO ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK.
 
Your welcome Mr. Cal:cool:

Originally Posted by Willie Lumpkin said:
Yep, just finished it. I'll try to hold way back on the spoilers, and if anyone wants any details, PM me, and I'll try to answer any questions you might have.

Overall impression: Somewhere between good and very good. There are a lot of great moments and a lot of scenes that seem like they could have been taken right out of the comics, but there are also some weak moments and flaws that prevent me from rating it "very good". I will say that it's a big improvement over the first film.

Positve...


Willie Lumpkin said:
Kel, you should be happy to hear that it was very much "about the four". . . possibly too much so. Nearly the first third is very focused on the four and some relatively mundane goings on. Fun for a fan like me, but may be disappointing to people who aren't real interested in the four.

Yes, I've been told on "very good authority" that I was wrong in my worrying...


Willie Lumpkin said:
All four characters are more mature, and less whiney. Their relationships . . . while still punctuated by some good natured teasing and some tense moments act less like bickering little brats than they did in the first one. That's particularly noticable between Johnny and Sue who seem more like 20 something brother and sister who really care about each other . . . though neither one would say so in so many words.

Great to hear, hopefully that will come across on screen...


Willie Lumpkin said:
Ben and Johnny also have a more mature relationship that is closer to what we see in the comics. Still some back and forth teasing, but not as childish as the first one.

As much as I enjoyed this in the first movie, it did get alittle irritating after awhile.....I wanted Ben to come back more like he does in the comics...


Willie Lumpkin said:
Reed and Sue have a mature, loving relationship that is much closer to the comics. Less of Reed being a puppy dog and Sue leading him around by the nose. They handle bumps with maturity and calm, and the "love triangle" was, thankfully, non-existant (though Sue does fill the Alicia role in a way, but there isn't any insecurity on Reed's part). Have I ever mentioned how much I hate the cliche' angst-ridden romances of most comic book films? Thankfully this one captures the simple, real, unambiguous love between Reed and Sue that we see in the comics.

I told ya sooooo.............I told ya soooooooooooooo.........I TOLD YA SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.......one of these days people will start listening to me......

Willie Lumpkin said:
Reed is much more Reed, and, while there were a few frustrating out of character moments, for the most part it is a big improvement.

Good again I hope that comes across on screen.

Willie Lumpkin said:
Johnny is probably the least changed character. As in the first film, he's a little more over the top than he was in the comics . . . but it works. His relationship with Frankie is interesting (but brief). If that relationship is continued into a third film, it could help to flesh out his character.

I'm disappointed about this....I wanted a more multi-dimensional character shown....not just a one-liner driven character....

Willie Lumpkin said:
Ben is more comfortable and doesn't spend the film moping as he did in the first . . . but he also never quite breaks out to be the joking, self-effacing character from the comics. He has some moments, but I was hoping for more.

Question: Was their truly less of Ben, and is it because they use Sue rather than Alicia for the SS dimension?


Willie Lumpkin said:
Sue is closer to her comics character. Taking her relationship with Victor out of the equation allows her to be the Sue who loves Reed whole-heartedly and less hesitantly than she did in the first film. And Jessica fans will be pleased to know there is a gratuitous nude scene for her (not sure exactly how they'll handle it on film). She gets to use her powers in some pretty cool ways, though they don't get as creative as we've seen in some of the comics.

There are some Jessica fans (me), including herself......that can do without those in movies.....


Willie Lumpkin said:
That, and a several other questionable scenes could, depending on how they're handled, generate some cringes and some ammunition for those who want to dump on this film, unfortunately. There are SEVERAL plot holes/divergences from science and logic that will require the viewer to believe in a comic-book reality. . . you know, a reality in which a person wouldn't explode if hauled to the edge of the atmosphere and fantasticars can go something like 100,000 miles per hour . . . even though it has a listed top speed of 200 mph in the book and I think I saw it listed as 500 mph somewhere else.


Willie Lumpkin said:
The surfer is, for the most part, spot on.

Positive....

Willie Lumpkin said:
Doom is one of the big weak points. While there are moments that his actions seem to be close to what we expect of classic Doom, and while he shows a bit more of his technical prowess, he's still a shadow of "real Doom", and after the talk of "full armor" . . . I'm afraid I just didn't see it anywhere (the book is a bit vague on physical descriptions, so it's possible there will be more in the film, but . . . for the most part Doom never came close to fulfilling his comics role or character.

*sighs*

Willie Lumpkin said:
Galactus . . . I can't really say much without spoiling things, but I was disappointed. From some things we have seen, it almost seemed like those elements were still a work-in-progress, so hopefully there will be some improvements over the book when it hits the big screen. . . but as it plays out in the book, fans of classic Galactus will be disappointed.

Purple fart?


Willie Lumpkin said:
As I mentioned, the beginning was a bit slow, and the ending was a bit busy. The story could use better balance, and I was disappointed that so much was thrown into the story at times, that it didn't allow the reader to properly feel the scale of some of the events . . . with some good film techniques and pacing, it's possible the film could do a better job than the book.

That would mean an editing team that knew what the heck they are doing???? oh god, we are doomed.....


Willie Lumpkin said:
It's hard to say how the story will translate. As I've mentioned, elements of the story are flawed, but there is also the possibility for some pretty spectacular visual elements. If properly done, some of these scenes could really be something.

. . .and considering nearly every comic film has had some flaws, even though I have some concerns with this story, there are elements that are much better than we have seen in other films. Certainly the danger is very real and failure of the heroes would be, unquestionably, catastrophic . . . if Tim Story is able to effectively convey the . . . SCALE . . . of the danger to the viewer, he could have a very intense story to tell. . . but the pacing and details of the book fail to really emphasize that . . . we're talking about the potential end of the world here guys.

Bottom Line - I'm looking forward to June 15th more than ever now.

Hope that gives everybody a good feel without spoiling too much. Like I say, if you want any details, let me know.

Last question, could David have done a better job with the novelization???



Thanks Willie....

I have a feeling that we have a novelization very different from the movie this go around....just a feeling. :cwink:
 
Can someone ask Willie to write a description of the actual STORY?
 
Can someone ask Willie to write a description of the actual STORY?

You can order the book right now from Amazon. Mine is coming today. :yay:

Just PM him, I'm sure he'd be happy to give you a synopsis.
 
The only details I really want to know are the details on Galactus and if this movie has an open ended ending or not (though these could be changed by the time the movie is out). If someone has those answers, a pm could be nice.
 
The only details I really want to know are the details on Galactus and if this movie has an open ended ending or not (though these could be changed by the time the movie is out). If someone has those answers, a pm could be nice.

Honestly I'm not sure the novelization will give you answers to that....and if it did.....they may well be changed by the time the movie comes out....
 
I'd be really dissapointed if the Doom in the movie was just like the Doom in the comic...he's downright cheesy in the comic.ugh
 
Thanks Kel.

I really wasn't about to post all that again:o , but I thought some people might be interested over here.

Can someone ask Willie to write a description of the actual STORY?

Compi, if you really want it, I typed up a very quick and dirty synopsis and PM'd it to a couple people over at F4 movies. I wouldn't really want to publicly post something that lays out the whole plot like that.

I'd be happy to send you the same thing, but it doesn't really capture the nuances, and it really will ruin a lot of the movie for you if you want some surprises.
 
The only details I really want to know are the details on Galactus and if this movie has an open ended ending or not (though these could be changed by the time the movie is out). If someone has those answers, a pm could be nice.

As Kel mentions, things are a little unclear and there could be bits of film being cut in as I type this. Based solely on the book (and keeping in mind the film could be different):

Classic Galactus doesn't appear, but may still be out there. There is no cliff-hanger, but it is ended in a way that it would at least be possible that Classic Galactus could show up first thing in a sequel (either FF or SS).
 
I'd be really dissapointed if the Doom in the movie was just like the Doom in the comic...he's downright cheesy in the comic.ugh


I'm sure at the moment you typed that 300 cats were sacrificed to the lightning god....:o
 
Anyone want to comment on how close the first novelization was to the final film? I'm going to refresh my memory. I'm thinking there could be some differences between the novel and the film when it comes out...
 
Anyone want to comment on how close the first novelization was to the final film? I'm going to refresh my memory. I'm thinking there could be some differences between the novel and the film when it comes out...

The first one was pretty close in terms of the story (though some details were a little different).

In this case though, there have been some pretty specific statements from Story, Rothman and others on details of Doom and Galactus that seem to contradict some of the more disappointing elements of the novel, so there may be some hope for improvements in the film version.

It also wouldn't require more than 30 seconds of film time to greatly improve the Galactus situation.
 
Plus, the book itself is almost half the size of last time....I'm sorry but I don't think we are getting the whole deal with this novelization.....BUT I COULD BE TOTALLY WRONG....
 
I'd be really dissapointed if the Doom in the movie was just like the Doom in the comic...he's downright cheesy in the comic.ugh

Heretic! .... unless you refer to Hudlin's bastardization of Doom in BP :cmad: :oldrazz: It's because they didn't use Doom as he is in the comics that made for a bland version in the film. Now everyone mistakes him for a Norman Osborne wannabe instead of the magnificently twisted and tragically flawed genius of the Marvel Universe.

FF509.jpg
 
Lots of good news on the 4 themselves there,thanks Willie:up:

2 questions

1)Do we see the F4/SS battle the Galactus ships ?

2)Does the SS battle the army ?

I'm surprised to hear the story takes a while to get going,i thought it opened with the wedding/chase scene
 
Lots of good news on the 4 themselves there,thanks Willie:up:

2 questions

1)Do we see the F4/SS battle the Galactus ships ?

2)Does the SS battle the army ?

I'm surprised to hear the story takes a while to get going,i thought it opened with the wedding/chase scene

They don't really battle the ships, but they do have what might be considered a "skirmish" (rather than a full fledged battle with the army

I should add. I've mentioned this in a few other places, but I realized I didn't quite mention it in my original review:

There is a LOT of action in this film. The FF are using their powers in some form or another throughout, and the ending has a particularly large scale sequence that has the potential to be one of the biggest Super-Hero battle sequences ever put on film.

. . . it's all in the hands of the visual effects guys. If they can pull it off, it should be something to see.
 
Lots of good news on the 4 themselves there,thanks Willie:up:

2 questions

1)Do we see the F4/SS battle the Galactus ships ?

2)Does the SS battle the army ?

I'm surprised to hear the story takes a while to get going,i thought it opened with the wedding/chase scene

Remember this is the book, what they describe at the beginning of the movie could be done within a few minutes.....the wedding could be within the first 10 to 15 minutes of the movie easily....
 
Remember this is the book, what they describe at the beginning of the movie could be done within a few minutes.....the wedding could be within the first 10 to 15 minutes of the movie easily....

True,
but clearly the wedding isn't the first (or even one of the first) scenes for those who might have thought that would be the starting point.

I remember some speculation about that, and I remember wondering about that myself.
 
True,
but clearly the wedding isn't the first (or even one of the first) scenes for those who might have thought that would be the starting point.

I remember some speculation about that, and I remember wondering about that myself.

definitely.....and I actually like how they've set it all up.....
 

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