World Official Green Goblin Appreciation Thread

[Chris Wallace]

 

[Spidey_62]

I love these two pages, I know that they are from an issue of The Spectacular Spider-Man UK magazine; and I'd love to track down some of them one day.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Few things are as good in life as watching the Green Goblin beat the hell out of Spider-Man. Norman's violence towards Peter serves absolutely no purpose. Doc Ock has a point: some mad scheme for power. Electro has a point: money or revenge. Gobby? Just the joy of kicking Spidey's ass and ruining his loved one's lives. After its all over, Peter is left wondering, "What the hell just happened here?" and Norman feels like "Another successful day!"

 

[Hobgoblin]

I dont care if its the Grey Goblin. I love the art. There is something vaguely old school about the top pic. It seems a little JR Sr to me.

 

[Spidey_62]

Few things are as good in life as watching the Green Goblin beat the hell out of Spider-Man. Norman's violence towards Peter serves absolutely no purpose. Doc Ock has a point: some mad scheme for power. Electro has a point: money or revenge. Gobby? Just the joy of kicking Spidey's ass and ruining his loved one's lives. After its all over, Peter is left wondering, "What the hell just happened here?" and Norman feels like "Another successful day!"

I don't think I've ever read such an apt explanation of Osborn's actions. t:

 

[Chris Wallace]

Few things are as good in life as watching the Green Goblin beat the hell out of Spider-Man. Norman's violence towards Peter serves absolutely no purpose. Doc Ock has a point: some mad scheme for power. Electro has a point: money or revenge. Gobby? Just the joy of kicking Spidey's ass and ruining his loved one's lives. After its all over, Peter is left wondering, "What the hell just happened here?" and Norman feels like "Another successful day!"

Originally that was true, but now Norman does have a point, as twisted as it may be. In Peter he sees the son he should have had, in Spider-Man he sees the protege he should have had. He can't stand that someone he sees as so perfectly suited for him stands against him. The Spectacular animated series took us back to the "kicking Spidey's ass for the sake of kicking Spidey's ass" motif, and did so beautifully.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Originally that was true, but now Norman does have a point, as twisted as it may be. In Peter he sees the son he should have had, in Spider-Man he sees the protege he should have had. He can't stand that someone he sees as so perfectly suited for him stands against him. The Spectacular animated series took us back to the "kicking Spidey's ass for the sake of kicking Spidey's ass" motif, and did so beautifully.

Are they still going with that? I havent bothered reading any of Dark Reign. The question of Norman's heir has gotten a little convoluted. Harry is a live, but Norman hates him. Gabriel is a loose cannon. The newborn baby in Origin of the Species is a new contender. Is Peter still in the running? Its hard to say, after Norman's memory of Spidey's ID was wiped after OMD.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I love these two pages, I know that they are from an issue of The Spectacular Spider-Man UK magazine; and I'd love to track down some of them one day.

Awesome, and i second that.

Green Goblin is Spider-Man greatest enemy, IMO. That is all.

The fact that some people look at Green Goblin as a second rate Villian baffles me. Hell, IMO, he is one of the most dangerous characters in comics.

 

[Chris Wallace]

Are they still going with that? I havent bothered reading any of Dark Reign. The question of Norman's heir has gotten a little convoluted. Harry is a live, but Norman hates him. Gabriel is a loose cannon. The newborn baby in Origin of the Species is a new contender. Is Peter still in the running? Its hard to say, after Norman's memory of Spidey's ID was wiped after OMD.

I'm honestly going based on what I read PRIOR to OMD; haven't read much lately either. And with Norman being the Iron Patriot now, who knows what the hell is going on anymore?

 

[Hobgoblin]

I'm honestly going based on what I read PRIOR to OMD; haven't read much lately either. And with Norman being the Iron Patriot now, who knows what the hell is going on anymore?

All I know is that during Secret Invasion, the Skrulls tried to make him go nuts by having several of them appear as Spider-Man. After he killed them, he declared that Spider-Man is beneath his notice. Sure, he cackled like a maniac as he killed them, but the fact that he was telling himself that Spidey wasnt worth his notice bugged me. It meant that we werent going to see them go head to head any time soon.

Well, at least the "Osborn" mini series looks promising. The Green Goblin personality at least seems to play a role in the story. Osborns are Goblins dammit, not Iron Man wannabes. That goes for Gabriel, too. Say what you will about Sins Past, Gabe will always be the Grey Goblin to me. (Can you tell that I dont care for American Son?)

 

[Chris Wallace]

I'm liking your argument about Norman having no real reason to target Spidey more and more. Ock targets him for having had the audacity to get in his way. Venom targets him for a stupid reason, because somehow Spidey's heroics are to blame for Brock not checking his facts. (I do not recognize Gargan as Venom) Gobby initially went after him just because he was there. And yet he has arguably done more damage to Spider-Man's life than most, if not all his other villains combined. Who else has made Spidey question the validity of his own existence?

 

[Spider-Man '92]

I think that might be the whole point to it. The mere fact that it happened just for the sake of happening and for no particular reason is why Goblin serves as such an intrusion to Spider-Man's life. For Spidey everything has to have reason, an explanation. For the Goblin there is no explanation.

Times like this that I don't understand why people could think anyone other than the Green Goblin could be Spidey's archnemesis.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

All I know is that during Secret Invasion, the Skrulls tried to make him go nuts by having several of them appear as Spider-Man. After he killed them, he declared that Spider-Man is beneath his notice. Sure, he cackled like a maniac as he killed them, but the fact that he was telling himself that Spidey wasnt worth his notice bugged me. It meant that we werent going to see them go head to head any time soon.

I'll admit, since 2007, Norman has become a ltitle different in character, but he still seems to carry that "beast within" or "Demon within" side to him. He lashed out a few times. Still, even though I've really enjoyed Nomran as being a big part of the entire Marvel Universe, he will always be The Green Goblin. Not the Iron Patriot. Still, NOrman is still an awesome and quite creepy character all around.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I think that might be the whole point to it. The mere fact that it happened just for the sake of happening and for no particular reason is why Goblin serves as such an intrusion to Spider-Man's life. For Spidey everything has to have reason, an explanation. For the Goblin there is no explanation.

Times like this that I don't understand why people could think anyone other than the Green Goblin could be Spidey's archnemesis.

Exactly. I mean, let's look at the facts here.

First Villian to ever know who Spider-Man really was - Green Goblin.

The Villian that killed the one person Peter was actually going to marry - Green Goblin

and the legacy didn't stop. The Goblin legacy whent on for years. If I remember correctly, in the comics, Peter was taking a shower and Harry sneakily found the Spider-Man costume inside a drawer (Amazing Spider-Man issue #135), which just added fuel to the fire. I just love the fact that once the father whent, the son took over. It's kind of like saying the Goblin's spirit never dies. Then we had Harry's phsyciatrist, Bart Hamilton as the Goblin, wh actually whent up agaisnt Harry in the comics. Then came Roderick Kingsley and turning the costume into the Hobgoblin, etc.

One of my favorite Harry as the Goblin stories would have to be the stories done in The Spectacular Spider-Man (Issues 180, 181, 183, 184, 189, 200, etc.) Harry was quite scary as the Goblin, but I found it to be a bit sad. Such as in The Specactualy Spider-Man issue # 189 When Harry, Liz, Normy Jr., and SPidey are sitting at the table, Harry tells them to eat nicely, then just screams it. He starts foaming at the mouth and such. It just shows the 2 sides of the character. Harry's death was just so sad, but a fitting end. He saved Spidey from being blown up. Sal Buscemas art was obviously amazing as well, and his Goblin remains one of my favorites. Though, Harry has been brought back.

I can go on and on because the Goblin's legacy was even longer than that. I'm just saying that the Green Goblin is over looked too much by Villians like Venom, who is awesome, but his story isn't as drawn out and powerful. Doc Ock's is more drawn out and powerful than Venom's in terms of story and charatcer. I still love Venom though. He may very well be my favorite Villian, but he's certainly not the greatest. The Green Goblin actually has a legacy that's lasted so long. Sure there was very odd things done with Nomran in sins past with that situation with Gwen, which was a VERY stupid idea. However, that's in the past.

The fact that Harry's death was a bit more heroic and Norman's death is pretty much more cold, and though accidental, he didn't redeem himself. Norman treated Harry pretty poorly all of his life. He didn't make that much time for him, so the fact that their deaths were different jsut fit togeather perfectly. I find those two qualities just brilliant. That's why people not seeing the Green Goblin for the evil he is baffles me. He truly is THE Villian.

Btw, Norman will always be the best Green Goblin. Hell, I consider him THE Green Goblin, over all the others, even though I loved harry's story. When I see the Goblin, I see Norman.

 

[Spider-Man '92]

Agreed there. Harry gets a special notion, but Norman is the one and only in my books. I'm hoping it won't be long until he dons the green mask once more.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

^^

 

[Chris Wallace]

I think that might be the whole point to it. The mere fact that it happened just for the sake of happening and for no particular reason is why Goblin serves as such an intrusion to Spider-Man's life. For Spidey everything has to have reason, an explanation. For the Goblin there is no explanation.

Times like this that I don't understand why people could think anyone other than the Green Goblin could be Spidey's archnemesis.

I like that.

 

[Spider-Man '92]

On the topic of Harry Osborn. One thing I enjoy about the build up to his death is purely the fact that he has a great build up. Things like The Child Within and The Osborn Legacy showed us how his mind was falling apart, and thus with his death how it finally finds peace. Something about that I really enjoy. Too bad it all gets ruined by a retcon, but looking at it as a standalone is just awesome.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

^^ Exactly. We look back all the way to when Harry started taking drugs. I consder that the jump start, but his fathers death just pushed him over the edge. The difference is that Harry was able to fight that evil, while NOrman sort was over powered. Let's not forget, Norman was an ass to begin with.

One thing I would like to say about Norman in Dark Reign, etc, is that even though he is a BIG part of all the Marvel universe now in terms of being norman Osborn, the one thing I do like is the untrust worthy part of Norman that is still there. You can never be all that sure if he likes you or not, even when he's acting normal. It's kind of like he's trying to surpress that Goblin persona. It's there though. You can see it come out.

Btw, one awesome moment that is not too far in the past is from Thunderbolts issue # 120. Norman snaps, becomes the Goblin, and pretty much pins the swordsman to a wall in a crucifiction type of way. Pretty damn creepy.

 

[Spider-Man '92]

^^ Exactly. We look back all the way to when Harry started taking drugs. I consder that the jump start, but his fathers death just pushed him over the edge. The difference is that Harry was able to fight that evil, while NOrman sort was over powered. Let's not forget, Norman was an ass to begin with.

One thing I would like to say about Norman in Dark Reign, etc, is that even though he is a BIG part of all the Marvel universe now in terms of being norman Osborn, the one thing I do like is the untrust worthy part of Norman that is still there. You can never be all that sure if he likes you or not, even when he's acting normal. It's kind of like he's trying to surpress that Goblin persona. It's there though. You can see it come out.

Btw, one awesome moment that is not too far in the past is from Thunderbolts issue # 120. Norman snaps, becomes the Goblin, and pretty much pins the swordsman to a wall in a crucifiction type of way. Pretty damn creepy.

I'll see about trying to find that issue while I'm out today. Sounds promising!

 

[Chris Wallace]

On the topic of Harry Osborn. One thing I enjoy about the build up to his death is purely the fact that he has a great build up. Things like The Child Within and The Osborn Legacy showed us how his mind was falling apart, and thus with his death how it finally finds peace. Something about that I really enjoy. Too bad it all gets ruined by a retcon, but looking at it as a standalone is just awesome.

There was also Legacy Of Evil.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

Also, I know that some people didn't like the Goblin in S-M1 (2002). Yes, even the costume. I just found Dafoe to be great as the character and I loved how greatly he switched from Norman to the Goblin in the mirror scene. The Goblin was just a very menacing VIllian, and that part final battle scene proves it. I mean, for gods sake, he attacks Aunt May's house.

 

[Chris Wallace]

I like how he went from "How dare you get in my way" to "How dare you reject me" to "You interfere with me, you refuse to join me, THEN you have the audacity to defy me when I try to teach you a lesson?!?!?!?"

 

[Hobgoblin]

I think thats a major part of Norman's obsession with Peter, Chris. Norman is an intensely arrogant SOB. He came right out and said it in the Death in the Family story in 2002. "This is a shot across your bow. I'm used to getting what I want. Stay out of my way."

Peter, this little teenage nobody, had the audacity to interfere with Norman's plans, forcing him to become the Green Goblin (according to Untold Tales of Spider-Man). Then Norman decided to make a point and kill Spidey and make a name for himself in the mobs eyes. Well the little creep refused to die! Then he had the nerve to "kill" Norman. From then on in, I doubt Norman even thought about becoming the head of the mafia, anymore. It was all about making Spider-Man suffer. And he has done such an exquisite job of it ever since.

Look at it from Peter's perspective. This guy that he never met before has a mad on to kill him and he has NO idea why. Then he kills your girlfriend right in front of you, just for the sheer sadism of it and you rightfully go nuts on him. Yes, Norman was impaled but that was his own fault, not Peter's. Still, Norman just gets even more enraged by this and declares all out war on Spider-Man and his loved ones. From Pete's perspective, its all nonsensical. Norman has no reason to hate him at all, yet he come screaming out of the sky unexpectedly on his glider and beats Spider-Man around for a while.

Thats what made him such a fascinating character for me: the psychology of the man and the mind games he played with Parker. Once Norman became the head of HAMMER, he lost appeal to me. He was just another Magneto or Doctor Doom trying to take over the world.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

^^ Very true. Though, as I said, I don't mind Norman as the head of Hammer, and it's bee nALOT of fun. However, I do miss him as being that very evil sob. Not that he isn't. He's just a bit different now.