Official Green Lantern News & Discussion Thread - Part 3

[Mr. Earle]

DC is moving forward

hal and barry are back

DC is moving forward

hal and barry are back

Oh the irony!

 

[KalMart]

Heroes don't murder people in cold blood. Heroes don't kill women and children. Redemption doesn't mean you become a hero. Redemption means you made up for all the bad things you did by dying in a heroic act. But the fact of the matter is that you cease to be a hero the minute you do evil acts.

Darth Vader was NOT a hero. Big difference.




Jordan ceased to be a hero when Marz raped him. Johns used the only trick he could by removing the responsibility from Hal.

And if going back to being among your peers is a cliche then I guess I like cliches.

Cliches like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash and....



wait for it...



The Green Lantern.

Have any comic heroes 'gone rogue' for whatever reason, done some unspeakable things, then returned to being a hero? I remember a while back in XMen comics when Magneto was suddenly a 'good guy' for a while....or something.

 

[The Batman]

There's a good reason mantles changed in the first place.

Spoken like a biased fanboy. I didn't even start reading comics till after hal and barry were gone, and I can still grasp the fact that hal and barry were replaced because of get rich quick schemes, even if the first crisis was a good get rich quick scheme. Wally's run as flash wasnt even truly validated until waid got on the book. Geoff Johns' success with both Hal and Barry proves that this is not a matter of "Kyle and Wally are just more interesting", which again, is just fanboy bias more than anything.

Oh the irony!

What irony? People act as if Barry and Hal are still acting like they're in the 60's. The franchise has moved forward with both at the helm.

 

[Calvin]

Otherwise, you could just project a picture of the brand on the screen and expect the same results. It's not like anybody could have made any Transformers movie with the same results, either. There's more to it than that.

The box office for the second movie pretty much proved that you probably could just project a picture on the screen and expect the same results.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Spoken like a biased fanboy. I didn't even start reading comics till after hal and barry were gone, and I can still grasp the fact that hal and barry were replaced because of get rich quick schemes, even if the first crisis was a good get rich quick scheme. Wally's run as flash wasnt even truly validated until waid got on the book. Geoff Johns' success with both Hal and Barry proves that this is not a matter of "Kyle and Wally are just more interesting", which again, is just fanboy bias more than anything.

The reason they died is because DC are morons. Didio almost killed Dick ****ing Grayson because his book didnt sell enough.

The point is that Barry was dead for +20 years and he didnt have much of a character to speak of. Its not like he was special or whatever. His best moment was his death. And now they brought him back banishing the character everyone grew up with. I mean it would have been better if Wally was in some book like Kyle is, but no, Barry is ****ing everywhere. DC will shove him down our throats one way or the other.

Hal... well ok, his return was a gimmick, but Johns has done wonders for GL and Kyle is still around so i dont mind Hal's return that much. He wasnt dead for as long as Barry anyway. Still, i have to ask, was Hal's return necessary? Is Hal really the reason GL sells so good, or is it the events, the other corps, Atrocitus, Larfleeze and all that?

Secret Origins was fastastic though. I love that book.

 

[KalMart]

The box office for the second movie pretty much proved that you probably could just project a picture on the screen and expect the same results.

Like I said earlier, the first movie got people into the theater for the second...which ended up being a terrible movie. But it wouldn't have even gotten a sequel if a lot of moviegoers didn't enjoy the first one...which had to build it's own popularity. Same could be said for Spidey 3 and Xmen 3's box office with their preceding films.

Again, Superman's larger/deeper brand awareness didn't help SR beat movies like Transformers and Iron man. It needed a better movie to do that.

 

[Mr. Earle]

What irony? People act as if Barry and Hal are still acting like they're in the 60's. The franchise has moved forward with both at the helm.

Moving forward with bringing a dead character back to life? This is like claiming that instead of making Damian Robin, DC would have moved forward if Dick got back in his pixie boots.

 

[The Batman]

T
The point is that Barry was dead for +20 years and he didnt have much of a character to speak of. Its not like he was special or whatever. His best moment was his death. And now they brought him back banishing the character everyone grew up with. I mean it would have been better if Wally was in some book like Kyle is, but no, Barry is ****ing everywhere. DC will shove him down our throats one way or the other.

Once again, spoken like a biased fanboy. I find it ridiculous that fans use barry and hal's silver age personalities to bash them...when the silver age is notorious for having flat characters. Not everyone grew up with Wally, and not everyone liked Wally, and in the end, Wally couldnt get the job done sales wise...not to mention they tried to replace him...twice. And for a guy that wasnt someone "everyone grew up with", Barry's doing quite nice as a best selling DC character.

 

[Franklin Richards]

I'd rather watch a movie about a man than a "hero"
those kinda movies tend to win oscars can credibility.

I give two ****s about the Oscars. I read comic books about super"heroes". I like those kinda stories. You know. Stories like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash and Green Lantern.

If I want to watch The Shield, I'll watch that. I want The Shield with Super Powers and I want my hero to NOT murder his friends in cold blood. Now if you want to make the supporting characters like Guy, John, and Kyle take some dramatic steps then that's ok, but at the end of the day I don't want Superman raping Lana Lang or Batman destroying Dick Grayson's air supply and leaving him to die underwater.

And I sure as Hell don't want Hal Jordan murdering Kilowog.

That era precludes Frank Miller(and similars) take on batman. I like batman angry and uber, The brave and the bold batman can go kick rocks.

If I remember correctly, Frank Miller's Batman is still Bruce Wayne. Right?

There's a good reason mantles changed in the first place.

To drum up sales? Cause if that were the case we'd be on our 40'th Wonder Woman and our 8th or 9th Superman.


And it's not like Kyle saved sales. He had a couple of mediocre years and then his mag tanked. He did well in supporting roles in other mags but he couldn't sustain it.

Hal sustained the mag in the past and is doing just fine now. Did he have off years? Sure but so does Superman, Wonder Woman, and from time to time even Batman.

Emerald Twilight is a black stain that was thankfully "erased".

 

[HighFivingMF]

I don't want anyone murdering Kilowog.

 

[The Batman]

Moving forward with bringing a dead character back to life? This is like claiming that instead of making Damian Robin, DC would have moved forward if Dick got back in his pixie boots.

Not if you understand that since Hal's been brought back, they've doubled the number of GL corps, created several other lantern corps, explored the character of Hal Jordan through a modern context, and have finally turned GL into a franchise. But, i guess thats not moving forward cause Kyle's not the main guy anymore.

From your understanding, Batman isnt moving forward just because Bruce Wayne came back. Nevermind that he's starting a global movement of crimefighters and set up Bruce Wayne as the funder of Batman's missions. They must not be moving forward just cause Bruce came back. LOL.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Once again, spoken like a biased fanboy. I find it ridiculous that fans use barry and hal's silver age personalities to bash them...when the silver age is notorious for having flat characters.

So instead of moving forward they brought back a long dead character with no personality and decided to give him one?

Problem readers?

Not everyone grew up with Wally,

No, my grandpa grew up with Barry and Jay, i'll give you that.

and in the end, Wally couldnt get the job done sales wise

Neither did Nightwing and you know what, B&R was one of the top 3 best selling comic books for months. All it takes is good writing.

...not to mention they tried to replace him...twice.

They did the same thing with Dick and Jason. Jason failed, but Tim and Damian succeeded. If Damian fails in the future the solution would be to remove him but not to replace him with Dick.

And for a guy that wasnt someone "everyone grew up with", Barry's doing quite nice as a best selling DC character.

That's down to good writing, not Barry.

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

That's down to good writing, not Barry.

Did the Flash book have such good sales numbers when Wally was in it and people like Waid, Morrison or Johns were writing it?

 

[Mr. Earle]

Not if you understand that since Hal's been brought back, they've doubled the number of GL corps, created several other lantern corps, explored the character of Hal Jordan through a modern context, and have finally turned GL into a franchise. But, i guess thats not moving forward cause Kyle's not the main guy anymore.

Yeah but all the changes you mentioned have nothing to do with Hal. Whether its Hal, Kyle or some new guy, those changes could have occured and boosted the GL sales. People are not reading GL because of Hal, they re reading it because of all the events and the Power Ranger stuff that's going on with the emotional spectrum.

From your understanding, Batman isnt moving forward just because Bruce Wayne came back. Nevermind that he's starting a global movement of crimefighters and set up Bruce Wayne as the funder of Batman's missions. They must not be moving forward just cause Bruce came back. LOL.

Bruce and Cap were only meant to die for a short period of time and we would get to see what would happen in that occasion. Their franchises need them so they werent going to kill them forever. Hell, at the end of Final Crisis we see Bruce back alive. He was never really dead.

Its a whole different thing to Barry being dead for 20+ years. Not only that but Bruce has a character, he is special whereas in Barry's case they had to go "oh... he's a cardboard. Well Johns seems like you got some work to do". What's the point of bringing back the shell of a character?

 

[Mr. Earle]

Did the Flash book have such good sales numbers when Wally was in it and people like Waid, Morrison or Johns were writing it?

So what... just because they re good writers their Flash stories ought to be good? And its not just that, perhaps the fans grew tired of Wally. My point isnt that Wally should stay. My point is that they didnt make Bart or someone else the Flash, they brought back Barry.

Oh and his return is a stunt, so everyone is gonna pick an issue or two to see what's going on, especially when Geoff Johns who is so big right now is writing it.

I mean, will you honestly claim that people were starving for Barry? That they couldnt wait for him to be back? That they missed him?

 

[Franklin Richards]

Here's your legacy.

And let us not forget Kilowog.

****** writing. Would have been a great What If but it has no place in continuity.



And your fanboy prejudice is showing. Bruce is somehow special and exceptional but Hal and Barry aren't? What a joke.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Did i say that i liked all these characters dying? The best thing Johns did was bring back the corps and add to the mythos, the new characters, the new corps and all that.

As for Hal and Barry i think that their franchises have proven to be fine without them so they re not as essential to the title as Bruce and Clark are to BM and SM respectively. At the end of the day the Flash and GL identities have become legacy/family/team identities whereas only Bruce is really Batman (ok until recently) and Clark is really Superman.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Maybe when you're older you'll realize how wrong you are.

 

[Antonello Blueberry]

So what... just because they re good writers their Flash stories ought to be good? And its not just that, perhaps the fans grew tired of Wally. My point isnt that Wally should stay. My point is that they didnt make Bart or someone else the Flash, they brought back Barry.

Oh and his return is a stunt, so everyone is gonna pick an issue or two to see what's going on, especially when Geoff Johns who is so big right now is writing it.

I mean, will you honestly claim that people were starving for Barry? That they couldnt wait for him to be back? That they missed him?

Bart was Flash for a little while And why Johns stories with Barry are good now and those with Wally weren't? It's not true, they're nice stories now and were nice those ones.
And really, the Ron Marz stories were horrible.

 

[Marvin]

I give two ****s about the Oscars. I read comic books about super"heroes". I like those kinda stories. You know. Stories like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash and Green Lantern.

If I want to watch The Shield, I'll watch that. I want The Shield with Super Powers and I want my hero to NOT murder his friends in cold blood. Now if you want to make the supporting characters like Guy, John, and Kyle take some dramatic steps then that's ok, but at the end of the day I don't want Superman raping Lana Lang or Batman destroying Dick Grayson's air supply and leaving him to die underwater.

And I sure as Hell don't want Hal Jordan murdering Kilowog.

Who said anything about The shield?
I just said human. I brought up the Oscars cause they highlight movies about humans and the human struggle, not robots. The movie the fighter is about a man with a heart of gold going through a tough time. Is that what the shield is about? No really tell me why you brought that up.

I didn't say I think GL should be a celestial take on punisher war journal.

If I remember correctly, Frank Miller's Batman is still Bruce Wayne. Right?

Not the same Bruce from the silver age, but that's sementics.

To drum up sales? Cause if that were the case we'd be on our 40'th Wonder Woman and our 8th or 9th Superman.


And it's not like Kyle saved sales. He had a couple of mediocre years and then his mag tanked. He did well in supporting roles in other mags but he couldn't sustain it.

so was it to drum up sales or not?

Did the Flash book have such good sales numbers when Wally was in it and people like Waid, Morrison or Johns were writing it?

A changing of the guard always stimulates sales, for a time...in theory anyway

Here's your legacy.

And let us not forget Kilowog.

****** writing. Would have been a great What If but it has no place in continuity.

Zod was one of the three Kryptonian criminals who took over the Time Trapper's pocket universe after Superboy was killed. When Zod, Quex-Ul and Zaora had decimated the entire population of that Earth, Superman was forced to execute them using kryptonite, a deed that would plague his conscience for years.

Sometimes, in real stories, a hero has to battle with his humanity and live with his decisions, and ultimately move on.
and sometimes you can scapegoat a giant yellow monster.

And your fanboy prejudice is showing. Bruce is somehow special and exceptional but Hal and Barry aren't? What a joke.

something about that last part just screams fan boy to me
isn't that exact same thing written on the wall in geoff johns office?
(and his lunch box)

 

[Franklin Richards]

It was to drum up sales and it failed. Doesn't stop the fact that that's what they were trying.

And did you read that story about Superman? He goes into a long speech about how he's the only jury left. How he's the only judge left. He's the only executioner left of a dead world and he must be all these roles. It's quite different from murdering Kilowog in cold blood.

What kinda comparison is that?


Oh and I mentioned the Shield because it's a cop drama with characters with questionable morals. Sound familiar? If you promote Marz' status quo then that's what you want.


I want Hal Jordan the Emerald Guardian.

 

[dnno1]

So in the comics...Hal Jordan goes bad, then dies saving everyone? I don't know the GL comics so I always wondered why they switched to that Kyle guy and so on.

Basically Coast City gets destroyed by Mongol and Cyborg Superman. Hal doesn't take it so well, the Guardians act like *****e bags to him, so he rebels, sorta like how Sinestro did. He tries to get enough power to bring Coast City back, killing other Lanterns and collecting their rings along the way.

I think if done differently than the comic, which didn't develop Hal's fall from grace enough, but keep the same basic concept, I think it would be very compelling and unique for these superhero films that are basically, all the same.

Like I said, it's sorta like the story of Darth Vader more than just a guy turning evil for no reason.

It would be interesting but like I said, it's too late for that now.

Personally I understand the animosity towards the story line. If I liked a hero(ahem batman) and he was so shoehorned into looking like a weak *****e, just for a company to revamp him with a more culturally in touch character... I'd hate it too.

But growing up I was impartial and emrald twilight actually got me into green lantern. The thing with Johns is that he loves an era of comics that existed before my time and he's slowly(actually quickly) making that era the status quo again. Where's wally there days?
If left to his own devices, he'll have pre-crisis superman running around in no time.

The real reason why Jordan was killed off back then, was because the sales of the Green Lantern Comic has dropped and they used the Jordan as Parallax angle while introducing Kyle Rayner to draw new readers. It was felt that the readership was younger and that changes needed to be made to the character to make the book more appealing to that market. This is why you saw such things in the 1990's as a Superman with longer hair, a Young Justice outfit, and a younger version of the Flash (Wally West). This was all re-imagined again starting in 2005 after the Infinite Crisis miniseries.

 

[MadVillainy]

I always found the Parallax thing to be really interesting. It's why I like Hal more than Kyle or any GL. Not necessarily because of his personality I just like that arc of turning into a villain/the destruction of Coast City is really cool to me

 

[mcallima]

I've always found Kyle boring as dirt. Emerald Twilight was cool, but it killed off Hal AND the Corps. I'm primarily a GL fan because of the Corps, not for any one character that wears the ring.

 

[dnno1]

You're talking about its appeal to its core fans. The core fans aren't enough to have made the movie the money that it made. It had to be packaged in a film that would have popular appeal. Superman has a much longer and deeper history of cartoons/toys/comics...it has the biggest brand of them all...and yet that didn't help SR beat Transformers, or a slew of other character/toy/comic based movies with lesser 'pedigree'. POTC was...a 50-yr-old ride at Disneyland. Did the brand make it a successful movie franchise?

It's not magic...it's movies.

Are you reaching for credibility again? By trying to discredit Michael Bay? Fascinating.

If we were talking about comics, then I would say that is the case, but we are talking about a brand that has a toy line that has sold tens of millions of units, and an anthology of TV series that have been exposed several (cultural) generation across the globe over the past 2 and a half decades. These folks (in spite of what you might think) still remember the brand and is what fueled the it's popularity at the box office. You could argue that Superman is a billion dollar or industry, but I would counter that the Transformers brand is larger than the Superman franchise since it sells more toys, games and TV ad spots (due to the number of series over the years).