Official Green Lantern News & Discussion Thread - Part 3

[DarkKnight FTW]

If I remember correctly, didn't Emerald Twilight happen right around the same time as Knightfall and Death of Superman?

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

It happened as a result of the events of the Death of Superman series

 

[dnno1]

The Death of Superman series was in 1992. Emerald Twilight started in 1994.

 

[DarkKnight FTW]

The Death of Superman series was in 1992. Emerald Twilight started in 1994.

Right, because Cyborg Superman was involved. Got it, thanks!

 

[The Batman]

Yeah but all the changes you mentioned have nothing to do with Hal. Whether its Hal, Kyle or some new guy, those changes could have occured and boosted the GL sales. People are not reading GL because of Hal, they re reading it because of all the events and the Power Ranger stuff that's going on with the emotional spectrum. Bruce and Cap were only meant to die for a short period of time and we would get to see what would happen in that occasion. Their franchises need them so they werent going to kill them forever. Hell, at the end of Final Crisis we see Bruce back alive. He was never really dead.

Its a whole different thing to Barry being dead for 20+ years. Not only that but Bruce has a character, he is special whereas in Barry's case they had to go "oh... he's a cardboard. Well Johns seems like you got some work to do". What's the point of bringing back the shell of a character?

Uh, yeah, they do. Johns' run has been about showing all these new elements and how they relate to hal, and now things are coming to a head with "War of the GL's". Whether you like it or not, people ARE reading because of Hal, thats why GL has been a hit since rebirth, BEFORE all the new changes came in.

You can talk about how long Bruce was out all you'd like. If you're gonna say bringing Hal back is a step backwards, then its the same thing bringing Bruce back. PERIOD, especially since Dick's run as Batman was popular, definetely more successful than kyle's GL run. Hal Jordan has been the most successful and popular GL in the books history. At this point, its indisputable. He is to the GL franchise what Bruce is to the Batman one. And if that wasnt the case, he'd be selling as well as Kyle was before "Rebirth". They replace him, yet they ALWAYS bring him back.

It seems like you can't comprehend the idea that ALL silver age characters had somewhat flat characters. And Barry was brought back because...gasp...PEOPLE LIKE BARRY. Not only that, the idea of reviving him for the modern age was a lot more intriguing than following Wally West, who's book had become an incredible's ripoff.

 

[arman200]

Jordan ceased to be a hero when Marz raped him. Johns used the only trick he could by removing the responsibility from Hal.

And if going back to being among your peers is a cliche then I guess I like cliches.

Cliches like Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, The Flash and....



wait for it...



The Green Lantern.

 

[Mrs. Sawyer]

It seems like you can't comprehend the idea that ALL silver age characters had somewhat flat characters. And Barry was brought back because...gasp...PEOPLE LIKE BARRY. Not only that, the idea of reviving him for the modern age was a lot more intriguing than following Wally West, who's book had become an incredible's ripoff.

This. All of DC's characters had the same righteous, uncompromising personality up until the 80s, thought the 70s provided some hints of change.

 

[Marvin]

You can talk about how long Bruce was out all you'd like. If you're gonna say bringing Hal back is a step backwards, then its the same thing bringing Bruce back. PERIOD, especially since Dick's run as Batman was popular, definetely more successful than kyle's GL run. Hal Jordan has been the most successful and popular GL in the books history. At this point, its indisputable. He is to the GL franchise what Bruce is to the Batman one. And if that wasnt the case, he'd be selling as well as Kyle was before "Rebirth". They replace him, yet they ALWAYS bring him back.

1. I very much doubt Dick sold better than Bruce, even if it was/is Morrison writing.

2. unlike hal and barry, Bruce didn't die for one minute let alone actually die for 15 some ought years.

It seems like you can't comprehend the idea that ALL silver age characters had somewhat flat characters. And Barry was brought back because...gasp...PEOPLE LIKE BARRY. Not only that, the idea of reviving him for the modern age was a lot more intriguing than following Wally West, who's book had become an incredible's ripoff.

impressive rhetoric, here's another: Sales boost.
oh wait, that only applies if it happened in the 90's.

 

[Saint]

people who want to see hal turn evil are like the wally fanboys that want to see barry die in the flash franchise: they dont seem to realize that it isnt the 90's anymore. DC is moving forward with the idea that hal and barry are back in their respective mantles, and it would make no sense not reflecting that in the films.

Barry and Hal are here to stay, not to be replaced in some imaginary second or third film.

It wouldn't make sense for Jordan, since his death is basically a big black eye on Green Lantern history (and this is coming from someone who would rather read about Kyle), but Barry? Yeah, I could get on board with Barry dying.

Barry had a great death, and Wally succeeding him felt right. That's something GL didn't have; Hal's death felt wrong and Kyle replacing him felt wrong (even if Kyle worked out in the end, which I believe he did). Barry's death was a defining moment in comics--and the best part is that it didn't need a weird retcon to fix. The nature of it was such that Barry could appear or flat out return at any time--and he did, a few times.

I'm being realistic, though, and I would never really expect these films to have the legacy aspect. I don't expect to see Kyle or Wally, which is sad, because they could both be introduced with or without the deaths of their predecessors, and I think they're both extremely important parts of their mythologies.

I never really understood the "Us versus them" stuff. I love Green Lantern and I love the Flash, and as long as they're be written by quality talent, all four of these characters carry those mantles well.

I could hardly complain that Barry and Hal are back; Barry and Hal are awesome, their current books are awesome, and their returns haven't been some silver age rewind or rehash. Anyone who tells you that these books aren't moving forward either isn't reading them, or is lying to your face. Best of all, the characters I grew up reading, Wally and Kyle, didn't have to die for this to happen.

Yeah, it hurts a little that Wally has been but on a shelf somewhere, but I'm sure that once DC is comfortable that Barry has been re-established, Wally will have his own book again--the way Kyle has GLC now. Will it be the same as they days when Kyle and Wally were in the forefront, were part of the big seven in the JLA and whatnot? Well, probably not, and yeah, that kind of sucks. But you never know, and I think things will balance out in the end. Creators will come along who grew up with kyle and Wally, and want to write about Kyle and Wally--and that's how it'll be, for a while.

 

[Saint]

Uh, yeah, they do. Johns' run has been about showing all these new elements and how they relate to hal, and now things are coming to a head with "War of the GL's". Whether you like it or not, people ARE reading because of Hal, thats why GL has been a hit since rebirth, BEFORE all the new changes came in.

I don't necessarily agree. I don't take anything away from Hal, but I think if someone like Johns (perhaps not Johns himself, because he writes Kyle a little funny) had written the same GL book, but with Kyle in the lead, it would have been similarly successful. I think it's the GL mythology that's really made this book what it is. Johns knows it, he understands it, and he writes it well.

If the same book with Kyle running it suffered from anything, it would probably be the lack of Rebirth to boost it into the A-list right off the bat--but I think the end result would have been just as solid. Kyle with an a-list writer who knows how to handle a GL book? Yeah, I want to read that as much as I want to read Hal in that book.

 

[The Batman]

It wouldn't make sense for Jordan, since his death is basically a big black eye on Green Lantern history (and this is coming from someone who would rather read about Kyle), but Barry? Yeah, I could get on board with Barry dying.

Barry had a great death, and Wally succeeding him felt right. That's something GL didn't have; Hal's death felt wrong and Kyle replacing him felt wrong (even if Kyle worked out in the end, which I believe he did). Barry's death was a defining moment in comics--and the best part is that it didn't need a weird retcon to fix. The nature of it was such that Barry could appear or flat out return at any time--and he did, a few times.

I'm being realistic, though, and I would never really expect these films to have the legacy aspect. I don't expect to see Kyle or Wally, which is sad, because they could both be introduced with or without the deaths of their predecessors, and I think they're both extremely important parts of their mythologies.

I never really understood the "Us versus them" stuff. I love Green Lantern and I love the Flash, and as long as they're be written by quality talent, all four of these characters carry those mantles well.

I could hardly complain that Barry and Hal are back; Barry and Hal are awesome, their current books are awesome, and their returns haven't been some silver age rewind or rehash. Anyone who tells you that these books aren't moving forward either isn't reading them, or is lying to your face. Best of all, the characters I grew up reading, Wally and Kyle, didn't have to die for this to happen.

Yeah, it hurts a little that Wally has been but on a shelf somewhere, but I'm sure that once DC is comfortable that Barry has been re-established, Wally will have his own book again--the way Kyle has GLC now. Will it be the same as they days when Kyle and Wally were in the forefront, were part of the big seven in the JLA and whatnot? Well, probably not, and yeah, that kind of sucks. But you never know, and I think things will balance out in the end. Creators will come along who grew up with kyle and Wally, and want to write about Kyle and Wally--and that's how it'll be, for a while.

I pretty much agree with much of this...I like Kyle and Wally, but I'm glad that Barry and Hal have the chance to their stories told in a modern context. They deserve it.

 

[The Morningstar]

I think Barry should have stayed dead. His death was awesome and one of the last meaningful deaths in comic books. And people weren't clamouring for his return... apart from Dan Didio.

Bringing him back is like bringing Uncle Ben or Captain Marvel back.

And Green Lantern would be a top seller now no matter who the lead GL.

 

[dnno1]

Guys, you are missing it. A hero who turns villain and then redeems himself is part of great storytelling. This goes back to heroes like Gilgamesh, Hercules, and Beowulf. Even in modern day, we have Darth Vader. The resurrection of heroes is not an uncommon concept either (for crying out loud, even Jesus Christ was resurrected). I would not call the death of Hal Jordan a mistake, but rather just another chapter in the legend of a fictional hero. His death and rebirth only served to make him more popular today.

 

[Saint]

I pretty much agree with much of this...I like Kyle and Wally, but I'm glad that Barry and Hal have the chance to their stories told in a modern context. They deserve it.

Yes, absolutely.

 

[Franklin Richards]

Well except for the fact that Kyle's books always tank. Who sold more? Who's selling more now? Green Lantern Corps or Green Lantern?


GL and it's because it's Hal.

 

[The Morningstar]

Guys, you are missing it. A hero who turns villain and then redeems himself is part of great storytelling. This goes back to heroes like Gilgamesh, Hercules, and Beowulf. Even in modern day, we have Darth Vader. The resurrection of heroes is not an uncommon concept either (for crying out loud, even Jesus Christ was resurrected). I would not call the death of Hal Jordan a mistake, but rather just another chapter in the legend of a fictional hero. His death and rebirth only served to make him more popular today.

This is exactly how i feel.

But... the yellow space bug relieving Jordan of all blame isn't redemption. It's throwing redemption out of the window. It's just going "Oh hey, wasn't his fault"

 

[dnno1]

Well except for the fact that Kyle's books always tank. Who sold more? Who's selling more now? Green Lantern Corps or Green Lantern?


GL and it's because it's Hal.

The trend with the Green Lantern books since it's inception, is that they tend to run for about 10 years and then get canceled. Kyle's run was no different than the previous runs with Hal and Alan.

 

[The Morningstar]

Well except for the fact that Kyle's books always tank. Who sold more? Who's selling more now? Green Lantern Corps or Green Lantern?


GL and it's because it's Hal.

Is Geoff Johns writing Green Lantern Corps or Emerald Warriors? Is Green Lantern Corps or Emerald Warriors important to the DCU universe at large?

Kyle's books tanked because he didn't get the backing of editorial. And also, JLA and Superman weren't irrelevent at the time. Batman wasn't in his own little corner.

Do you understand how the comic book industry works? It's pretty simple...

Green Lantern is now the CENTRE of the DCU. Books that are the centre of a universe, where all the big stories happen, sell better.

Back then those books were JLA, Superman and Batman.

These days it's Green Lantern and Flash.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Maybe when you're older you'll realize how wrong you are.

How condescending of you.

Bart was Flash for a little while And why Johns stories with Barry are good now and those with Wally weren't? It's not true, they're nice stories now and were nice those ones.
And really, the Ron Marz stories were horrible.

Again, just because its the same writer it doesnt mean that both stories ought to be good. Even if they are, the fans might have grown tired of Wally. I know about Bart and i know it wasnt successful but they could have replaced Wally with someone else, in the same way that Jason failed but Tim succeeded.

 

[Saint]

Well except for the fact that Kyle's books always tank. Who sold more? Who's selling more now? Green Lantern Corps or Green Lantern?


GL and it's because it's Hal.

Kyle has never enjoyed the sort of push Jordan is currently enjoying--with a-list talent and editorial putting him in the forefront of event books and the entire DC line, in general. Jordan is more successful now than he ever was before because of that push; if they invested similarly in Kyle, I would expect solid results there, too.

I mean, saying "GL sells more than GLC, because of Hal!" is poor science. GL has Geoff Johns and GLC has Tony Bedard; there was never going to be any contest, regardless of who was starring. If you put Grant Morrison or somebody like that on GLC, I'm sure it would sell kickass, too.

Incidentally, I always liked how Morrison wrote Kyle in JLA; he might be a good fit.

 

[Saint]

Is Geoff Johns writing Green Lantern Corps or Emerald Warriors? Is Green Lantern Corps or Emerald Warriors important to the DCU universe at large?

Kyle's books tanked because he didn't get the backing of editorial. And also, JLA and Superman weren't irrelevent at the time. Batman wasn't in his own little corner.

Do you understand how the comic book industry works? It's pretty simple...

Green Lantern is now the CENTRE of the DCU. Books that are the centre of a universe, where all the big stories happen, sell better.

Back then those books were JLA, Superman and Batman.

These days it's Green Lantern and Flash.

Yeah, this is important stuff to remember. Also, it really blows that JLA has become so completely irrelevant. I hate to say this so soon after it's last major reboot, but they need a relaunch, Avengers-style. A-list creators, big stories.

Put Morrison back on it. Put Morrison on everything!

 

[Franklin Richards]

Is Geoff Johns writing Green Lantern Corps or Emerald Warriors? Is Green Lantern Corps or Emerald Warriors important to the DCU universe at large?

Kyle's books tanked because he didn't get the backing of editorial. And also, JLA and Superman weren't irrelevent at the time. Batman wasn't in his own little corner.

Do you understand how the comic book industry works? It's pretty simple...

Green Lantern is now the CENTRE of the DCU. Books that are the centre of a universe, where all the big stories happen, sell better.

Back then those books were JLA, Superman and Batman.

These days it's Green Lantern and Flash.

Don't patronize me, son. I was reading comics when you were a gleam in your momma's eyes.


I suppose the thirty years of Hal that happened before Kyle means nothing? When you look at it Kyle's time in the sun was no more important than John Stewart's and barely more than Guy Gardner. The real power behind the franchise is Hal Jordan. So suck it up and quit being so myopic.

And what do you mean Kyle didn't have the backing of editorial? Marz had free reign and Kyle was featured in Morrison and Waid's runs on JLA. Seems like he had all the backing he needed.


Problem was that people didn't want to see a solo book about Peter Parker with a power ring. They wanted the test pilot with the history.

 

[Mr. Earle]

It wouldn't make sense for Jordan, since his death is basically a big black eye on Green Lantern history (and this is coming from someone who would rather read about Kyle), but Barry? Yeah, I could get on board with Barry dying.

Barry had a great death, and Wally succeeding him felt right. That's something GL didn't have; Hal's death felt wrong and Kyle replacing him felt wrong (even if Kyle worked out in the end, which I believe he did). Barry's death was a defining moment in comics--and the best part is that it didn't need a weird retcon to fix. The nature of it was such that Barry could appear or flat out return at any time--and he did, a few times.

I'm being realistic, though, and I would never really expect these films to have the legacy aspect. I don't expect to see Kyle or Wally, which is sad, because they could both be introduced with or without the deaths of their predecessors, and I think they're both extremely important parts of their mythologies.

I agree.

I could hardly complain that Barry and Hal are back; Barry and Hal are awesome, their current books are awesome, and their returns haven't been some silver age rewind or rehash. Anyone who tells you that these books aren't moving forward either isn't reading them, or is lying to your face.

Its not a matter of whether Hal and Barry suck, if their new books suck, if the writers are doing new interesting things with them. Its a matter of principle and like you said it works for Hal because his death was bad, but it doesnt work with Barry who had a legendary death 20 freaking years ago. Besides, they could have used Flashpoint to boost Wally or his successor instead of Barry which is the case now. Big whoop.

Best of all, the characters I grew up reading, Wally and Kyle, didn't have to die for this to happen.

Yeah, it hurts a little that Wally has been but on a shelf somewhere, but I'm sure that once DC is comfortable that Barry has been re-established, Wally will have his own book again--the way Kyle has GLC now. Will it be the same as they days when Kyle and Wally were in the forefront, were part of the big seven in the JLA and whatnot? Well, probably not, and yeah, that kind of sucks. But you never know, and I think things will balance out in the end. Creators will come along who grew up with kyle and Wally, and want to write about Kyle and Wally--and that's how it'll be, for a while.

Agreed.

I think Barry should have stayed dead. His death was awesome and one of the last meaningful deaths in comic books. And people weren't clamouring for his return... apart from Dan Didio.

Bringing him back is like bringing Uncle Ben or Captain Marvel back.

And Green Lantern would be a top seller now no matter who the lead GL.

That's exactly my point.

 

[Mr. Earle]

Well except for the fact that Kyle's books always tank. Who sold more? Who's selling more now? Green Lantern Corps or Green Lantern?


GL and it's because it's Hal.

Are you using sales as an arguement? Really? Are you disregarding the fact that all the talent is on Hal's book, the main GL book with all these huge events happening and all these new cool characters guest staring? Hell, i'd read a GL/Sinestro/Atrocitus/Walker/Indigo/Larfleeze team up book even if the GL was a piece of turd with a power ring.

Is Geoff Johns writing Green Lantern Corps or Emerald Warriors? Is Green Lantern Corps or Emerald Warriors important to the DCU universe at large?

Kyle's books tanked because he didn't get the backing of editorial. And also, JLA and Superman weren't irrelevent at the time. Batman wasn't in his own little corner.

Do you understand how the comic book industry works? It's pretty simple...

Green Lantern is now the CENTRE of the DCU. Books that are the centre of a universe, where all the big stories happen, sell better.

Back then those books were JLA, Superman and Batman.

These days it's Green Lantern and Flash.

Exactly.

 

[Franklin Richards]

So you don't think that all the Hal Fans who freaked out and never bought another GL book for a decade wouldn't mind not having him around? You think that the new fans he's won wouldn't buy the mag?


You're saying that the sales wouldn't drop to GL Corps levels? Because Johns the man who doesn't know how to write Kyle, according to some, isn't writing GL Corps? Even though he's the editor and overall story writer for the mag?


I wonder what the difference is? Oh yeah. Hal Jordan.