Iron Man 3 Official Iron Man 3 rate/review thread.

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[BLACKOUT]Also, how do we ever know that the Extremis zombies are actually dead? And are they evil? What makes them evil? They all seemed like good people with disabilities (amputees, etc.) before Extremis, and now suddenly they're bad? Will Pepper become bad? And the end fight with all of the IM suits, what are they doing to kill these formerly-good-possibly-evil-Extremis-zombies? How did Pepper kill Killian? Too many unanswered questions for me... [/BLACKOUT]

Oh, and kids. I hate kids in movies. Even though this kid wasn't horrible, I think they could have done without him. Sorry 'bout it.
 
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That isn't anything like what they did with the Mandarin. [BLACKOUT]He isn't even a villain in the movie (I don't count Killian).[/BLACKOUT]

You can discount it all you want, but it doesn't make it one bit less true.
Mandarin is Killian. Killian is Mandarin. Period. Trevor is just a decoy.

So is Killian-Mandarin the kind of movie nemesis Iron Man deserves? Let's see: amazing superpowers; evil genius and mastermind; kidnaps the girl; inserts himself into the hero's life and hounds him every step of the way, even though the hero doesn't even know *he's* the one who's doing it; army of superpowered henchmen; megalomaniacal plot to reshape the world in his own image. Yep, that sounds like an arch-nemesis to me. Sounds very much like a portrayal that's as true to the comics as possible without trotting out an offensive racial stereotype with cartoonish alien magic rings.

This whole movie was marketed as IRON MAN VS. MANDARIN and was something that was hyped since 2008.

No; no, it wasn't.
IM1 never once mentioned The Mandarin. IM1 never once mentioned even the concept that there was someone higher than Raza or Stane. Ten Rings was nothing more than an easter egg, *not* a plot device.

IM2 had even *less* to do with The Mandarin. The only *hint* at Ten Rings involvement is a brief scene that got left on the cutting room floor --- didn't even make it to the deleted scenes on DVD. Just a mention in the director's commentary about how Fav originally planned to have a nameless Asian guy with a big ring give Vanko a pit pass at GP Monaco.

And even IM3 *itself* didn't begin with any hint at The Mandarin. In fact, Feige and Black categorically denied that he would be used because he was such a silly, racist caricature. The film went into production with The Ghost listed as the villain; then later, James Badge Dale, Guy Pearce, and Ashley Hamilton were cast and announced as the villains (Coldblood, Killian, and Firepower, respectively). The first *hint* that there was a Mandarin came well past the halfway point of actual filming, when Kingsley was announced. That late addition could even suggest that Mandarin was only introduced after a script rewrite.

So no --- despite protestations to the contrary, Mandarin has never been promised or foreshadowed or even hinted at in the Iron Man franchise.



The major criticism I see people list is the stupid twist. I see most people say that it was a good/great movie but that the twist itself was stupid and robbed the movie of a lot of potential.

IM3 continues to hold a 92% "fresh" rating on RT, and only 5 of 54 reviews rate it even below average. Of those 5 negative reviews, only *one* (FILMINK Australia) *****ed about The Mandarin Twist.

Otherwise, I can count on the fingers of both my hands (and a thumb or two to spare) the number of people complaining about The Mandarin Twist, right here on this board, including you.
 
this movie is awesome. haters gonna hate :)

ps. i really hope it makes a huge amount of money so iron man 4 is made lol.

but yeah, see the movie for yourself and judge.
I'm pretty sure it'll get made regardless of total BO intake.
 
I've seen the movie twice and its awesome!

See it for yourself :)
 
I enjoyed it. the twist is alittle jarring, but to me it doesn't mess up the film. I think its a good play on how we see villians in today's society in a certain way and in terms of race. Also fits Tony's journey as well as his views of preparing for a threat but still seeing it in terms of what we see as a villian as oppose to the larger threat that goes unseen. Would say I liked it more then Iron Man 2 but think I still like the first one alittle bit more. But need to se it again to cement that .
 
IM3 continues to hold a 92% "fresh" rating on RT, and only 5 of 54 reviews rate it even below average. Of those 5 negative reviews, only *one* (FILMINK Australia) *****ed about The Mandarin Twist.

Otherwise, I can count on the fingers of both my hands (and a thumb or two to spare) the number of people complaining about The Mandarin Twist, right here on this board, including you.

Dredd was 100% until it hit the US and then dropped to 73%.
We'll see if IM3 holds 92% once it opens in America.
 
I gotta say I was disappointed for a number of reasons...

1. I knew about the twist, and I wasn't "spoiled" by it, but I can imagine that a casual viewer would be disappointed about how it unfolds. The trailers show Ben Kingsley's Mandarin as a scary threat (ala The Joker or something similar), but all of his scary moments are in the previews. The ONLY stuff we don't see in the trailers is when we find out that he's just an actor. Granted, BK did a great job and it was funny, but I just felt cheated.

2. Pretty dodgy visual effects. Obviously Shane Black isn't familiar with CGI and it shows. The suits all look pretty bad, Tony getting in/out of his suits looks bad, the Extremis virus looks bad. It's sad because Jon Favs had a great eye for CGI and Shane Black doesn't.

3. The producers/actors/director kept saying how they wanted to give Don Cheadle more to do, and yet he's in only in like 3 scenes. Lame.

4. Nerdy Killian was laughable. Come on, a nerd that gets dissed at a convention holds a grudge for 13 years and plots a government takedown to get back at Tony? That CAN'T be the best way to portray these characters...

5. I hated the voice over. I get it, they wanted to do a little punch-line at the end, but I just didn't like it. This just didn't feel like an Iron Man film to me. I hate being so nit-picky because I'm usually pretty forgiving about this stuff, but it just didn't feel right to me. At the very least they could have used Matty Libatique as the Cinematographer to keep the "look" consistent.

That being said, I enjoyed the film. But I still like IM1 and IM2 more.


I agree with you, the effects are a big step down from IM2 or even IM1 with the 'heat' effects looking so CG it's not even funny. Also the IM suit IM1 was photorealistic, seemless CG but in IM3 it looks fake.
 
I think the issues with the suits is that there are so many of them that it becomes obvious they are fake.
 
I think the issues with the suits is that there are so many of them that it becomes obvious they are fake.

There are too many suits, and they can all be remotely controlled. Stark could boost the Avengers team in the sequel by adding in 50 or 100 or however many of his suits! Actually there won't be need for Captain America, Thor, etc, because it could all be done by remote-controlled suits of armour. :dry:

Who needs Avengers? We could just have a ****-load of Iron Man suits flying around all the time.
 
There are too many suits, and they can all be remotely controlled. Stark could boost the Avengers team in the sequel by adding in 50 or 100 or however many of his suits! Actually there won't be need for Captain America, Thor, etc, because it could all be done by remote-controlled suits of armour. :dry:

Who needs Avengers? We could just have a ****-load of Iron Man suits flying around all the time.

This was also what made the movie a lesser experience for me.

In the end all Tony does is make a cool arm gesture like a magician saying Presto !!! and the armors just go do all the work destroying stuff.

It's always better to have the man, in the armor doing the dangerous things that need to be done. For me the Air Force One rescue was ruined because of this.

What would have worked better for the final showdown is to have Tony and no more than 3 other cool remote controlled armors taking on all the Extremis soldiers at once. That way you have a closer connection with the armors and when one gets destroyed it means something. But that way you can also play on the idea that Tony is actually doing some serious multitasking by actually controlling the armors while also fighting himself.

Also the Extremis soldiers could be confused with what armor Tony is in at any given moment.

Maybe have Tony quickly switch in and out of various armor mid-combat or something. Or have Tony tag teaming it with a couple of the armors not unlike Naruto's Kage Bunshin no Jutsu/Shadow clone technique.

In the end, for the hundreds of armors that showed up how many could you actually see doing stuff. 3/4 maybe ?
 
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Saw the film yesterday. Overall, I thought it was good and a definite improvement on IM2. I still had some big gripes with it though, most of which has already been covered by previous posters.
 
There are too many suits, and they can all be remotely controlled. Stark could boost the Avengers team in the sequel by adding in 50 or 100 or however many of his suits! Actually there won't be need for Captain America, Thor, etc, because it could all be done by remote-controlled suits of armour. :dry:

Who needs Avengers? We could just have a ****-load of Iron Man suits flying around all the time.

And also what danger is there to Stark if he's remote controlling everything? I don't have a problem with the remote controlled aspect in this film but I would if it was extended outside this film.
In its defence though IM3 is a very self contained story, but I think inconsistencies and 'yeah but' questions regarding the happenings in the rest of the universe is to be expected going forward. The best way to looks at it is the MCU is only ever going to be loosely connected individually, the universe really only comes together in the team up movie.
 
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I thought it was good but not great. A lot of really nice little moments but as a whole I wasnt all that impressed. For me it was probably the weakest of the 3.

I didnt like the new suit design.
I thought there were too many suits used in the movie, just ended up feeling like a toy advert.
They turned Tony Stark into some kind of super being who could fight, do athletics and sneak around like Sam Fisher taking out highly trained guards.
I thought motivations throughout the movie seemed murky.
I thought Guy Pearce took the character a bit too weird back in the 1999 scenes.
Didnt feel like there was enough actual Iron Man in the movie.
I never really felt convinced by his panic attacks and definitely not him giving up all the Iron Man stuff at the end.

I did like Stark's interactions with the kid, lot of their lines made me laugh.
Thought Ben Kingsley was pretty good, hammy at first then a funny turn.
After the credits scene was a nice nod to the Avengers (although it did take me a lot longer than it should have to realise who it was. I even for a minute wondered if it was Dr Strange when he mentioned he wasnt that kind of Doctor.)
I'll remember more later. As I said there were a lot of little moment I liked.
 
So Stark now has
drones that link up to his brain patterns and do his work for him. Sounds like Ultron's foreshadowing to me. And they did say Tony Stark will return, but not Iron Man. But then again, the point of these movies has been that Tony Stark is Iron Man. So maybe it's the same thing as saying Iron Man will return, and he'll be in the suit for TA2. If not, maybe he'll be controlling suits in TA2 from somewhere else.

This movie's even cooler when I keep in mind
that the entire movie he was fighting A.I.M., so now it exists in the MCU along with HYDRA.
 
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One thing I will say is it was definitely the best characterisation of Tony so far.

I don't think I really connected with him as a character before other than being funny sometimes and totally cocky. But adding in the vulnerability of anxiety attacks was a really nice touch, and all that stuff plus the interaction with the kid just made me really like him (which I hadn't done previously) :)

Also just loved how much they focused on the fact HE is actually a hero, and it's not just because he has armour.

That stealthy attack on Madarin with just the bits and bobs he could make was a great way of illustatrating that even without all the powers of his expensive suits, he's still an awesome hero :)
 
No; no, it wasn't.
IM1 never once mentioned The Mandarin. IM1 never once mentioned even the concept that there was someone higher than Raza or Stane. Ten Rings was nothing more than an easter egg, *not* a plot device.

IM2 had even *less* to do with The Mandarin. The only *hint* at Ten Rings involvement is a brief scene that got left on the cutting room floor --- didn't even make it to the deleted scenes on DVD. Just a mention in the director's commentary about how Fav originally planned to have a nameless Asian guy with a big ring give Vanko a pit pass at GP Monaco.

Let me quote Jon Favreau talking to SHH exclusively about IM1:

SHH!: Why did you go with Obadiah Stane for this movie being that he's not the most well-known Iron Man villain?
Favreau: No, it worked well, and we wanted a big suit and with Jeff Bridges and he was up for it, and in casting Jeff, that role really grew, and we went away from the Mandarin, because we really didn't know what to do with him and it seemed too ambitious in the first one...

SHH!: Can you talk about what villains we might be seeing in the second and third films?
Favreau: I think Mandarin for sure, I think War Machine for sure.

(In our exclusive interview, Favreau elaborated more on the Mandarin's role that's hinted at in the first movie: "We have the Ten Rings which is a tip of the hat to the Mandarin, which is the greater villain that is going to emerge; the guy who is the head of the bad guys is not somebody who is representing religious zealotry, but is instead really a warlord looking to conquer an empire.)


Kevin Feige also said that "early (and very late)drafts of Iron Man 1 featured The Mandarin as a villain." So, no, these weren't just hints or easter eggs. They were very intentional, as apparently a build-up for something that would happen later. You can always argue that this never happened they way they intended, because Jon Favreau didn't return to direct IM3, but it's more because Marvel clearly doesn't give a **** about consequences in their movies.

So all in all, they had these huge, dramatic, serious-looking trailers, brought the Mandarin, Iron Man's arch-nemesis, cast Ben ****ing Kingsley, made him the center of the marketing, like he's this huge, big treat to Tony Stark, had him say all these silly lines that don't even appear in the movie itself, just so that they can have this joke of a twist?..

Why not have the Joker in the next Batman movie played by a big actor, and then have Calendar Man pop up and say that the Joker is actually a dime-store knock-off he pulled from the loony bin, so that he can pretend to be a big treat to Batman, and have CM claim he's the real Joker in the climax. Come to think about it, that would make even more sense, because it will be a joke, hence having a Joker - but what was the purpose of having the Mandarin wasted like that?!

Were they so proud of that twist scene and the joke they pulled, to go on and create this elaborate plan into making us believe that we'll actually see the Mandarin done right on screen? The scene wasn't even funny. It was a bad joke. After that, I just couldn't care less about the rest of the movie, because it was hard to take anything even slightly seriously.

This was the biggest trolling I've seen a movie pull off... It's one thing to have another studio **** up Galactus by making him a cloud, but this is Marvel Studios making fun of their own characters. I understand the reasons they had for not having the Mandarin, and as much as I wanted to see him show up in these movies, I would've been okay if he never did. Why bring the superhero's arch-nemesis, in such a useless way (the movie could've easily, easily worked without the Mandarin), and make him a complete and utter joke?

Why the need to put such a great actor into the role of a goofball, when you had a great opportunity to re-imagine the character as a terrorist leader and ideologist who doesn't believe in heroes and indeed considers his acts a teaching in a twisted kind of way? The trailers made him look like an interesting character. All these lines he never even said in the movie itself seemed to suggest that the Mandarin is a resourceful, calculative ideologist who undermines Tony's status as a hero, in a post-Avengers world that made Iron Man an even bigger public personality. That sounded like a great premise for a promise by Marvel to put new challenges onto these characters to make them prove themselves once again.

But no, we had to have an evil scientist-competitor, who wants revenge on Tony Stark for something happened in the past (like we didn't have those two in the second movie), who has the same abilities that all his other soldiers have. They couldn't have the ten rings before because supposedly it wasn't going to fit in this universe, but after Thor and The Avengers, what was stopping them? It could've been a great conflict between science and magic, and Tony vs the Mandarin. You can have an fire-breathing demonic Killian, but you can't have a character with magical abilities?

Speaking of Killian, what was the point of having him proclaim himself as the Mandarin at the end of his fight with Iron Man? Was that supposed to be a shocking reveal? Uhm, no, we knew that already. Was this supposed to be a wink to the comic book fans? Like if they can't tell the difference between Aldrich Killian and the Mandarin, two completely different characters, so they need to force it down their throats that they're now merged into one character. It was completely pointless.

Which brings it to the next thing - seems like there's a lot of pointless stuff that Marvel Studios doesn't care to take action about and face consequences afterwards. Which would be okay if they didn't make such a big deal out of it. Why have this emotional moment with Pepper supposedly dying, even when we saw her becoming infected with Extremis a few minutes ago?

Why should I care if Tony Stark removes the arc reactor and seemingly quits being Iron Man, when no doubt he's going to return to being Iron Man once again? And why did he wait until just now to make this life-saving operation, if he clearly didn't need the arc reactor to power all his armors anymore? And why does he ever need to go inside the suit if he can control it remotely? If he can construct a few dozens of armors in a matter of months, why wouldn't he bring even more of them when the next alien invasion comes? In fact, why wouldn't he just throw them in the fight without having to even control them if Jarvis can do this for him?

Anyway, who cares? Seemingly Marvel doesn't, because they have the tendency to make these huge, dramatic moments and endings completely irrelevant, with no consequences following after. The whole ending of Iron Man 2 with Tony being rejected from the Avengers Initiative, and Thor's dramatic choice to destroy the bridge at the end of his movie, are being completely disregarded to having absolutely no importance for anything, being explained with a simple line in a dialogue that isn't even about these things. Coulson's death is also going to have the same kind of treatment in the forthcoming TV show, and I bet my ass the ending of IM3 is going to be completely ignored the next time Tony Stark shows up.

I need to wrap this up, because it's getting out of hand. I'm clearly very upset, and this has been bothering me the whole weekend, so I had to throw it out. I apologize to anyone who feels they spent too much time reading this, and I don't want to offend anyone with my opinion on this movie. I rarely go into such rants about stuff that pissed me off like that, but that was just too much.
 
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I gotta get something off my chest, because everyday I lurk on these boards I feel like the death of (commercial) cinema is getting nearer.

The people who didn't like the movie, that's absolutely fine. Not everyone's tastes are the same and I'm perfectly fine with that. That says something good about the movie, aswell. It's not playing safe in order to try and satisfy every single human being on this planet. it has character.

BUT, FOR THE LOVE OF THE CINEMA GODS, you do NOT judge a movie for how it fares against the trailers (freakin' advertisement!!!!!) and the expectations - the little "fantasy-movie" - you created in your head after you saw the trailer: "Oh I see, that's sure going to happen like that, and then he's gonna do this", which over time becomes "that has to happen like that, and he's gotta do this". It's sad. You judge the movies based on what you saw in theaters, not on what you thought you'd be seeing, just because you're so anal about trailers and explore every single shot of them, down to every little roadsign you see in the background, and start that little mindgame called "I'm a filmmaker, I'm a storyteller; I know s**t!"

Speaking of Killian, what was the point of having him proclaim himself as the Mandarin at the end of his fight with Iron Man? Was that supposed to be a shocking reveal? Uhm, no, we knew that already. Was this supposed to be a wink to the comic book fans? Like if they can't tell the difference between Aldrich Killian and the Mandarin, two completely different characters, so they need to force it down their throats that they're now merged into one character. It was completely pointless.

Many people still don't really get the twist and its meaning and subtext, imagine if they weren't so explicit with it.

P.S.: Why compare different comic book movies and characters? The Joker was handled one way (and you think every single nerd is satisfied with how Nolan adapted him? Hell no!), the Mandarin another. Different characters. Different movies. Different writers and directors. Thank God, DIVERSITY! FREAKING DIVERSITY! I'm sick of every second comic book movie feeling like the one that came out the year before.
 
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This was also what made the movie a lesser experience for me.

In the end all Tony does is make a cool arm gesture like a magician saying Presto !!! and the armors just go do all the work destroying stuff.

It's always better to have the man, in the armor doing the dangerous things that need to be done. For me the Air Force One rescue was ruined because of this.

What would have worked better for the final showdown is to have Tony and no more than 3 other cool remote controlled armors taking on all the Extremis soldiers at once. That way you have a closer connection with the armors and when one gets destroyed it means something. But that way you can also play on the idea that Tony is actually doing some serious multitasking by actually controlling the armors while also fighting himself.

Also the Extremis soldiers could be confused with what armor Tony is in at any given moment.

Maybe have Tony quickly switch in and out of various armor mid-combat or something. Or have Tony tag teaming it with a couple of the armors not unlike Naruto's Kage Bunshin no Jutsu/Shadow clone technique.

In the end, for the hundreds of armors that showed up how many could you actually see doing stuff. 3/4 maybe ?

But that's actually what makes the final scene more interesting. During the whole movie we are told by outside sources that this new armors were 'a distraction' for Stark to combat his PTSD, but he never confirms it outright, simply saying things like 'maybe'.

Stark also has problems during the movie because he thinks he needs the armors, or that he's lacks capability without them. They're his obsessions, proof of his mistakes, but in the end scene he declares that said armors are not Iron Man, he's is Iron Man, and that the armors were simply a necessary part of him, a physical representation of Stark's lost psyche which in said end scene is at peace.

The final battle is Stark fighting against and along his 'inner demons'. The Extremis soldiers are an extension of Aldritch Killian/The Mandarin, who in turn is not just a foil to Tony Stark but also, much like the suits, another creation of his, another mistake of his. The suits represent all those obssesions which, while still being a part of him, were solved. By controlling all the armors at once and fighting the Extremis soldiers, Stark shows that no armor defines him, and that no mistake will drive his life. It's him who gives all those suits a definition and purpose, it's him who decides to fight all his demons. That scene simply showed what the movie was implying: that neither Stark nor his past mistakes built Iron Man. He is one with Iron Man.
 
Let me quote Jon Favreau talking to SHH exclusively about IM1:

Kevin Feige also said that "early (and very late)drafts of Iron Man 1 featured The Mandarin as a villain." So, no, these weren't just hints or easter eggs. They were very intentional, as apparently a build-up for something that would happen later. You can always argue that this never happened they way they intended, because Jon Favreau didn't return to direct IM3, but it's more because Marvel clearly doesn't give a **** about consequences in their movies.

So all in all, they had these huge, dramatic, serious-looking trailers, brought the Mandarin, Iron Man's arch-nemesis, cast Ben ****ing Kingsley, made him the center of the marketing, like he's this huge, big treat to Tony Stark, had him say all these silly lines that don't even appear in the movie itself, just so that they can have this joke of a twist?..

Why not have the Joker in the next Batman movie played by a big actor, and then have Calendar Man pop up and say that the Joker is actually a dime-store knock-off he pulled from the loony bin, so that he can pretend to be a big treat to Batman, and have CM claim he's the real Joker in the climax. Come to think about it, that would make even more sense, because it will be a joke, hence having a Joker - but what was the purpose of having the Mandarin wasted like that?!

Were they so proud of that twist scene and the joke they pulled, to go on and create this elaborate plan into making us believe that we'll actually see the Mandarin done right on screen? The scene wasn't even funny. It was a bad joke. After that, I just couldn't care less about the rest of the movie, because it was hard to take anything even slightly seriously.

This was the biggest trolling I've seen a movie pull off... It's one thing to have another studio **** up Galactus by making him a cloud, but this is Marvel Studios making fun of their own characters. I understand the reasons they had for not having the Mandarin, and as much as I wanted to see him show up in these movies, I would've been okay if he never did. Why bring the superhero's arch-nemesis, in such a useless way (the movie could've easily, easily worked without the Mandarin), and make him a complete and utter joke?

Why the need to put such a great actor into the role of a goofball, when you had a great opportunity to re-imagine the character as a terrorist leader and ideologist who doesn't believe in heroes and indeed considers his acts a teaching in a twisted kind of way? The trailers made him look like an interesting character. All these lines he never even said in the movie itself seemed to suggest that the Mandarin is a resourceful, calculative ideologist who undermines Tony's status as a hero, in a post-Avengers world that made Iron Man an even bigger public personality. That sounded like a great premise for a promise by Marvel to put new challenges onto these characters to make them prove themselves once again.

But no, we had to have an evil scientist-competitor, who wants revenge on Tony Stark for something happened in the past (like we didn't have those two in the second movie), who has the same abilities that all his other soldiers have. They couldn't have the ten rings before because supposedly it wasn't going to fit in this universe, but after Thor and The Avengers, what was stopping them? It could've been a great conflict between science and magic, and Tony vs the Mandarin. You can have an fire-breathing demonic Killian, but you can't have a character with magical abilities?

Speaking of Killian, what was the point of having him proclaim himself as the Mandarin at the end of his fight with Iron Man? Was that supposed to be a shocking reveal? Uhm, no, we knew that already. Was this supposed to be a wink to the comic book fans? Like if they can't tell the difference between Aldrich Killian and the Mandarin, two completely different characters, so they need to force it down their throats that they're now merged into one character. It was completely pointless.

Which brings it to the next thing - seems like there's a lot of pointless stuff that Marvel Studios doesn't care to take action about and face consequences afterwards. Which would be okay if they didn't make such a big deal out of it. Why have this emotional moment with Pepper supposedly dying, even when we saw her becoming infected with Extremis a few minutes ago?

Why should I care if Tony Stark removes the arc reactor and seemingly quits being Iron Man, when no doubt he's going to return to being Iron Man once again? And why did he wait until just now to make this life-saving operation, if he clearly didn't need the arc reactor to power all his armors anymore? And why does he ever need to go inside the suit if he can control it remotely? If he can construct a few dozens of armors in a matter of months, why wouldn't he bring even more of them when the next alien invasion comes? In fact, why wouldn't he just throw them in the fight without having to even control them if Jarvis can do this for him?

Anyway, who cares? Seemingly Marvel doesn't, because they have the tendency to make these huge, dramatic moments and endings completely irrelevant, with no consequences following after. The whole ending of Iron Man 2 with Tony being rejected from the Avengers Initiative, and Thor's dramatic choice to destroy the bridge at the end of his movie, are being completely disregarded to having absolutely no importance for anything, being explained with a simple line in a dialogue that isn't even about these things. Coulson's death is also going to have the same kind of treatment in the forthcoming TV show, and I bet my ass the ending of IM3 is going to be completely ignored the next time Tony Stark shows up.

I need to wrap this up, because it's getting out of hand. I'm clearly very upset, and this has been bothering me the whole weekend, so I had to throw it out. I apologize to anyone who feels they spent too much time reading this, and I don't want to offend anyone with my opinion on this movie. I rarely go into such rants about stuff that pissed me off like that, but that was just too much.

That's an excellent post :up:
 
Had a chance to think a bit more about the film and here's a few of my thoughts on it....

Good things -
  • RDJ probably at his best out of all the IM films, in terms of acting
  • Decent script
  • Ben Kingsley in Mandarin guise was excellent, suitably threatening and loved the voice
  • Extremis.......!
  • By and large the effects were great. 2 keys scenes stood out for me and looked very realistic - Stark's mansion being destroyed, and the people falling out of Air Force Once
  • Lots of action
  • Pepper Potts got some action scenes

..... and inevitably, the not-so-good things - most of which are centred round the storyline.
  • The big 'twist'. I'm not a hardcore Iron Man fan and only really got into the character after the films took off, so I'm not speaking from a fanboy perspective here. But nonetheless, the reveal that the Mandarin didn't really exist felt like a complete waste to me. Waste of Ben Kingsley's talents, and a waste of a potentially great villain.
  • The multiple suits - key word here for me is 'overkill'. With so many suits, why would Tony ever need help? He can summon them anytime.
  • His remote control of the suits - very cool techno feature, but when you think about it, it removes all tension from the scenes if he's not actually in the suit. It rarely felt like Tony was actually in any danger. Why wouldn't he just control them like that all the time rather than risk his life?
  • The villain and his motivations - We've already had a bad guy try to kill Tony Stark because of past misdeeds (Whiplash in IM2). Aldritch Killian's whole arc just felt contrived. He was ignored by Tony 13 yrs ago so is now on some kind of massive revenge arc? Please. I just didn't really get (or believe) in what the character was actually trying to achieve.
I dunno. The film ticked a lot of boxes and was definitely fun to watch, but I came out of it feeling pretty as calm as when I went in. Tony Stark has been in so many tight situations only to get saved by one of his suits or inventions at the last second, that it's now feels like he's never truly in danger. Even with multiple explosions on screen and Extremis soldiers running amok, I didn't feel much tension.

I'd love to have seen them go down the Extremis comic storyline route. Tony may be able to build the best suits there is, but ultimately he's still slowed slightly by the suit's responses to his commands and actions. So he used Extremis as a kind of biological link to the suit, where him and the suit react as one - and he truly 'is' Iron Man, not just a guy in a metal suit.

Perhaps the Hollywood Iron Man has reached a critical point now........................ for me at least. There's only so many times I can see him find cool new ways of putting on his suits before it gets a little boring. I've a feeling I'll enjoy the character more in future ensemble pieces like Avengers 2, but I don't see where they can really take an IM4 film that won't feel like more of the same.
 
Ok generally, I thought it was an ok, fun movie but the worst of the trilogy. Here are my issues:

1) The Mandarin reveal. Obviously. I don't agree at all with the people claiming this was essential to avoid dated racial stereotypes. In the trailers he is presented as an ambiguous international terrorist, based in the Middle-East, with a vaguely American accent. Nothing to do with China. His motivation was to deconstruct the American myth of heroism (appropriately after The Avengers saved the world). He did not need to be Chinese, he did not need to have magic rings (although these could easily have been explained in the post-Thor MCU). Some people on these boards have argued that it was changed for realism reasons....so instead of a terrorist we got a super-powered, FIRE-BREATHING scientist. Very realistic. Shane Black played this totally for laughs and shock value and although Kingsley was amusing, we just ended up with another financially motivated villain. The Mandarin's ideals would have been far more interesting.

2) I also did not like the ramifications of his remote controlled suits. The Air Force One scene was by far the best action in the movie but was totally tarnished by the fact that Tony wasn't even in the suit. I didn't think this would bother me but I realised after that I'm invested in Tony as a hero, and his suit facilitates his heroism. If he sits on his couch while his suit saves peoples lives, I'm no longer watching Iron "Man", I'm just watching a robot. I'm worried Marvel may have included this incase RDJ decides not to return and we then get an entirely remote control Iron Man in future Avengers instalments.

Other smaller factors that I could have overlooked had I enjoyed the film more but I didn't like particularly were:

How destructible his suits appear to be now. In IM1 he was shot out of the sky by a tank and got up with minimal damage. In this one being hit by a truck obliterated his armour. Also his army of suits were quite easily destroyed by the Extremis soldiers and last year he survived a fight with Thor.

I like the character of Rhodes but Iron Patriot did absolutely nothing. War Machine was involved in far more action in the second.

The action was lacking. The plane rescue was great and the end scene was ok in terms of explosions but nothing matches the Stark Expo battle in IM2 that showed off all Iron Man's flying and combat abilities to the fullest.

Finally, how and why did he have his chest piece removed? As far as I was aware this was keeping him alive AND powering his suits. If he could be cured by surgery why didn't he do that in the first film or the second film when he was dying? This seems like another 'break the mould' inclusion by Black just to put his mark on the film.
 
Love how divided the reaction for the film is.
 
Speaking of Killian, what was the point of having him proclaim himself as the Mandarin at the end of his fight with Iron Man? Was that supposed to be a shocking reveal? Uhm, no, we knew that already. Was this supposed to be a wink to the comic book fans? Like if they can't tell the difference between Aldrich Killian and the Mandarin, two completely different characters, so they need to force it down their throats that they're now merged into one character. It was completely pointless.

No. Aldritch Killian is The Mandarin, like it or not. The movie makes that clear. He invents Extremis like the Killian of the original Extremis storyline, but also has the dragon-tattoos, martial arts skills and social darwinist mindset of modern comic book incarnations of The Mandarin.

There being "two" Mandarins into one also echoes the comics from an historical perspective, in that The Mandarin himself has changed drastically over the years.

The first Mandarin may be fictional, but, as his creation, it's still in essence a part of Killian's character, which from a modern perspective satirizes a being the embodiment of the east in a costume. Killian himself represents the modern Mandarin, a business suit wearing embodiment of social darwinism.

Interesting to note is that the film never tells you outright if Killian was already working with the Ten Rings during the first Iron Man or he simply used their influence to create a villain for heroes to be distracted with. We know that he had the idea to create his Mandarin persona after 'that guy with the hammer fell out of the sky and subtlety kind of went out of the window', but that doesn't mean he wasn't wroking with them at first. The good thing is that it works either way. Killian may have been working with the Ten Rings from the very beginning for profit, which would explain his words 'it's been always me' probably in reference to the time when he was kidnapped. If he jsut used their name, it also makes sense for Killian to decide to distract Tony with the supposed villain of the organization which kidnapped him years ago.
 
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I love how all of these long, drawn out posts about how bad the Mandarin is in the film are nothing short of "WAAAAAH I GOTTED TRICKED!!!!"
 
the twist is divisive, yes, for both fans and non-fans. But to say that it only exists for the sake of a joke is just ignorant.
 
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