The Amazing Spider-Man OFFICIAL Rate & Review the Amazing Spider-Man! - Part 2

[Anno_Domini]

Why quote me?

I'm making a point that someone insists they didn't seem to explain Peter's love for MJ, but that goes the same with Peter's love for Gwen in TAS-M.

 

[chaseter]

You asked a reasonable question...it was to highlight the responses and what prompted your question that were turrble.

 

[Fox]

Thanks! Your review and comparison of the Spider-Man movies are fantastic. I often use them as examples for why TASM is a better setup for future movies, and why it has so much potential in comparison to the Raimi films.

Hey thanks for reading, and the compliment! I'm glad you enjoyed them. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

 

[TheWallCrawler]

To be honest, I really had hoped that they would've gone the Spectacular Spider-Man way with Gwen, meaning that she was Peters nerdy friend and then maybe they wouldn't even get together in the movie, their relationship would build up and in the second movie Peter would realize his love

What I mean by that is that I think they gave Peter a girl too easily

 

[Micromind]

To be honest, I really had hoped that they would've gone the Spectacular Spider-Man way with Gwen, meaning that she was Peters nerdy friend and then maybe they wouldn't even get together in the movie, their relationship would build up and in the second movie Peter would realize his love

What I mean by that is that I think they gave Peter a girl too easily

^^ I really thought was the case.... before watching the movie.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

So you dissect a discussion because...?

Try reading my post again.

I don't hate Peter/MJ because it doesn't explain why they weren't in love. It's just forced upon the audience and we don't see them develope together. We don't know WHY Peter has fallen for MJ. MJ comes off as unlikeable.

Gwen and Peter's relationship grows throughout the film. We see them interact and build a relationsip rather than be told, "Peter is in love with Gwen". We SEE him go through the character developement to see him reach the point where he falls for her.

Come on, we see and hear more than enough hints of why Peter is in love with MJ. She moves next door to him when he is 6, he thinks she is an angel straight away, their bedroom windows face each other and have done since she moved in so Peter has obviously watched her growing up and still watches her now. Its very easy for a teenager to fall in love that way. Especially when she doesnt acknowledgement him and he has no interaction with her. Its the forbidden fruit you can never have type of love, and all this is in the first movie alone.

I did think Peter got a girl too quick in ASM, hell Gwen basically approached Peter first, and this for a geek and an outsider? Didnt seem right to me, yet, Garfield and Stone played it so well they made it believable, so it wasnt really an issue in the end.

 

[Picard Sisko]

You had someone make a really pointless point about a movie he feels is lesser and then another person asked the same question about the movie the prior person loves. Then the next few posts are haha really terrible pseudo affirmations to the original post.

I mean comeon...

That looks good on paper

Gwen and Peter's relationship grows throughout the film. We see them interact and build a relationsip rather than be told, "Peter is in love with Gwen". We SEE him go through the character developement to see him reach the point where he falls for her.

Hey thanks for reading, and the compliment! I'm glad you enjoyed them. It's nice to know I'm not the only one who feels that way.

My ONLY disagreement is that I feel the first Spider-Man movie deserves a higher rating, otherwise I really enjoyed what you wrote. Thanks!

To be honest, I really had hoped that they would've gone the Spectacular Spider-Man way with Gwen, meaning that she was Peters nerdy friend and then maybe they wouldn't even get together in the movie, their relationship would build up and in the second movie Peter would realize his love

What I mean by that is that I think they gave Peter a girl too easily

Spectacular Spider-Man is a series, and I think its hard to do something like that with the movies. If they are going to introduce Gwen Stacy as his girlfriend and most likely kill her off, AND introduce Mary Jane Watson all in three movies... you have to get the ball rolling a lot faster.

With teenagers, sometimes relationships just begin out of nowhere, which is also the reason as to why most of them fail. They break up, then get back together again almost immediately, going back and forth. Hey, that happened in TASM!

Though, it did feel like they were genuinely in love.

 

[TheForgotten]

Come on, we see and hear more than enough hints of why Peter is in love with MJ. She moves next door to him when he is 6, he thinks she is an angel straight away, their bedroom windows face each other and have done since she moved in so Peter has obviously watched her growing up and still watches her now. Its very easy for a teenager to fall in love that way. Especially when she doesnt acknowledgement him and he has no interaction with her. Its the forbidden fruit you can never have type of love, and all this is in the first movie alone.

I did think Peter got a girl too quick in ASM, hell Gwen basically approached Peter first, and this for a geek and an outsider? Didnt seem right to me, yet, Garfield and Stone played it so well they made it believable, so it wasnt really an issue in the end.

Are you serious? The stuff we find out about why Peter falls for MJ is TOLD to us. We still don't really get that much.

ASM, yeah the relationship happens a little quickly, we see it ALL develope on screen. So it works.

 

[Fox]

Come on, we see and hear more than enough hints of why Peter is in love with MJ. She moves next door to him when he is 6, he thinks she is an angel straight away, their bedroom windows face each other and have done since she moved in so Peter has obviously watched her growing up and still watches her now. Its very easy for a teenager to fall in love that way. Especially when she doesnt acknowledgement him and he has no interaction with her. Its the forbidden fruit you can never have type of love, and all this is in the first movie alone.

I'm going to pull a quote from my posts, because re-writing all of my problems with MJ would be exhausting. You can read the whole article in its entirety here if you'd like.

http://fenskeland.blogspot.ca/2012/11/gwen-stacy-vs-mary-jane-babe-edition.html

Concerning Mary Jane from Spider-man 1-3

The first problem I had with MJ in the film is that all throughout she's treated as THE MOST DESIRABLE WOMAN EVER, but then we're not really given a reason as to why. It's not that I have a hard time believing that Peter would ever find Kirsten Dunst/MJ attractive, but he's been worshiping her from afar since kindergarten even though she's basically ignored him the entire time. Why? I could MAYBE understand it if there was something that set her apart; perhaps if she were gifted in the arts, or highly intelligent like Peter. I would even be willing to understand his infatuation if she was simply an overtly charismatic and outgoing woman, like in the comics.

She was none of those things.

The writers kept trying to convince us that she was special, and that we should love her. They played the sympathy card; her family is dysfunctional, and she dreams of a better life, of being a star etc. And that's fine, but what part of that makes her appealing? Don't get me wrong, I know and love plenty of dysfunctional people, but never BECAUSE they're dysfunctional.

Every significant interaction between Mary Jane and Peter (besides the scenes where they confess their love for each other with tediously awkward monologues) involves her filling Pete in on the latest developments of her unending sob story. Every complaint she has seems to imply that she shouldn't be beholden to the same rules as the rest of the world. Here are some examples of her life dilemmas:

The first scene between Pete and MJ (in the back yard)

MJ: "My parents are the worst. I just want to LEAVE here FOREVER!"

PETE: "Yeah. You're Amazing."

WHAT PETE SHOULD HAVE SAID: "Gosh that's awful. You should start working towards leaving here."

In the city after highschool:

MJ: "My audition SUCKED! They told me I needed acting lessons. A SOAP OPERA told me to get acting lessons!"

PETE: What!? But you're amazing!

WHAT PETE SHOULD HAVE SAID: Well... have you ever considered that maybe you need acting lessons? Maybe you should take lessons. LIKE MOST ACTORS.

In Spider-man 2 after Pete missed her show:

[Note: the Following is Mary Jane's actual line.]

MJ: By the way, John has seen my show 5 times, Harry has seen it twice, Aunt May has seen it, My SICK mother got out of BED to see it. Even my Father... he came back stage to borrow cash. But my BEST friend, who cares SO much about me, can't even make an eight o'clock curtain. After all these years he's nothing to me but an empty seat."

PETE: (watches as she leaves). Gosh she's right. I don't deserve someone so amazing.

WHAT PETE SHOULD HAVE SAID: ... *ahem* ... Shut your dumb*** mouth, *****! Did you ever consider that I had to work over time to pay the bills for my ****** apartment? Or maybe I got caught in a car accident (which is exactly what happened)? Maybe, instead of being a self-centered *****, just be glad that so many of your friends are coming to your freaking show of WHICH YOU ARE A LEAD CHARACTER! Do you realize how many artists DON'T have the constant support of their family and peers? Have you considered that you're NOT the centre of the whole damn universe. And. What. The. ****! are you doing staring into the audience looking for a friend in the middle of your show? Do you have any idea how flagrantly unprofessional that is? No wonder you got fired from your Broadway gig in the third movie! SERIOUSLY, YOU'RE SUCH AN AWFUL PERSON!

*pant* *pant*

Sorry. I feel much better now.

Look. Friends not showing up to your events, getting dumped from a show, being told you're a bad actor, are admittedly frustrating things. She's totally allowed to feel disappointed, but all she does is mope and complain (even when her life isn't even that bad). By the second film she's not only in a legitimate play with her face plastered on posters across this little place called NEW YORK, but she's also engaged to a respectable, kind, well paid man who is an astronaut and local hero (because astronauts are still considered heroes by the public at large, apparently).

And what does she do with this man who loves her very much? She uses him as ammunition against Peter's feelings, ultimately leaving the poor guy at the altar without so much as a warning just because "NOW she's ready to be with Peter". Get engaged or break it off all you want ladies, but getting engaged so you can hurt another man ain't nothing but a ***** move. To BOTH men.

Obviously I'm not saying that we would want Peter to be rude to MJ for no reason. We don't. But the facts don't lie. She never adequately demonstrates an incredible talent or trait, she's a hypocritical ***** who uses other people to hurt the man she supposedly loves out of petty revenge, and in spite of all this Pete STILL seems to have a constant ***** for her. The reason is, sadly, all too simple:

Mary Jane, in the movies, wasn't a character. She was a prize. A prize with varying degrees of difficulty one needed to surpass in order to win her. A lady prize.

I could never care about her because the only thing she was good at was being useless. She was a background character with an overabundance of screen time. She was obstacle for Spider-man whenever the villains put her in danger, but I could never understand why Spider-man had invested in her in the first place that she would be considered SUCH an invaluable obstacle to EVERY single one of his enemies. All of her problems, whether it was about her failing career or her being dropped off a bridge, needed to be solved by someone else or not at all, and she had no say in the outcome. She was an object, a bartering tool for bad guys, who was put in life or death situations not by any choice of her own, but because she is a victim. A helpless victim. A victim who needs saving.

Remember what I said about victims last time? The audience HATES victims. Even if we don't know it. We'll often be too distracted to notice, but deep down inside it just grates on us how useless victims are. We want to see a character who fights back. Instead she just hangs around (sometimes literally) waiting for the Superhero to do something. She's an obstacle for Spider-man, and she's a stumbling block for Peter. Half the time she's being kidnapped, and the other half she's criticizing and judging Pete at every turn, never giving him an opportunity to defend himself. Gosh. She sure is amazing.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Are you serious? The stuff we find out about why Peter falls for MJ is TOLD to us. We still don't really get that much.

ASM, yeah the relationship happens a little quickly, we see it ALL develope on screen. So it works.

 

[Fox]

ASM, yeah the relationship happens a little quickly, we see it ALL develope on screen. So it works.

I missed seeing this earlier, but nicely put.

 

[TheForgotten]

Pretty much hit every point w/ your post Fox.

 

[Fox]

Thanks.

 

[Jick]

lol
That was a fun read with the dialogue that you made up. It's like reading How It Should Have Ended.

 

[spidermanJLA!~]

Yeah, I didn't appreciate how he was so obsessed with Mary Jane Watson.

 

[Oscorp]

I'm going to pull a quote from my posts, because re-writing all of my problems with MJ would be exhausting. You can read the whole article in its entirety here if you'd like.

http://fenskeland.blogspot.ca/2012/11/gwen-stacy-vs-mary-jane-babe-edition.html

Concerning Mary Jane from Spider-man 1-3

The first problem I had with MJ in the film is that all throughout she's treated as THE MOST DESIRABLE WOMAN EVER, but then we're not really given a reason as to why. It's not that I have a hard time believing that Peter would ever find Kirsten Dunst/MJ attractive, but he's been worshiping her from afar since kindergarten even though she's basically ignored him the entire time. Why? I could MAYBE understand it if there was something that set her apart; perhaps if she were gifted in the arts, or highly intelligent like Peter. I would even be willing to understand his infatuation if she was simply an overtly charismatic and outgoing woman, like in the comics.

She was none of those things.

The writers kept trying to convince us that she was special, and that we should love her. They played the sympathy card; her family is dysfunctional, and she dreams of a better life, of being a star etc. And that's fine, but what part of that makes her appealing? Don't get me wrong, I know and love plenty of dysfunctional people, but never BECAUSE they're dysfunctional.

Every significant interaction between Mary Jane and Peter (besides the scenes where they confess their love for each other with tediously awkward monologues) involves her filling Pete in on the latest developments of her unending sob story. Every complaint she has seems to imply that she shouldn't be beholden to the same rules as the rest of the world. Here are some examples of her life dilemmas:

The first scene between Pete and MJ (in the back yard)

MJ: "My parents are the worst. I just want to LEAVE here FOREVER!"

PETE: "Yeah. You're Amazing."

WHAT PETE SHOULD HAVE SAID: "Gosh that's awful. You should start working towards leaving here."

In the city after highschool:

MJ: "My audition SUCKED! They told me I needed acting lessons. A SOAP OPERA told me to get acting lessons!"

PETE: What!? But you're amazing!

WHAT PETE SHOULD HAVE SAID: Well... have you ever considered that maybe you need acting lessons? Maybe you should take lessons. LIKE MOST ACTORS.

In Spider-man 2 after Pete missed her show:

[Note: the Following is Mary Jane's actual line.]

MJ: By the way, John has seen my show 5 times, Harry has seen it twice, Aunt May has seen it, My SICK mother got out of BED to see it. Even my Father... he came back stage to borrow cash. But my BEST friend, who cares SO much about me, can't even make an eight o'clock curtain. After all these years he's nothing to me but an empty seat."

PETE: (watches as she leaves). Gosh she's right. I don't deserve someone so amazing.

WHAT PETE SHOULD HAVE SAID: ... *ahem* ... Shut your dumb*** mouth, *****! Did you ever consider that I had to work over time to pay the bills for my ****** apartment? Or maybe I got caught in a car accident (which is exactly what happened)? Maybe, instead of being a self-centered *****, just be glad that so many of your friends are coming to your freaking show of WHICH YOU ARE A LEAD CHARACTER! Do you realize how many artists DON'T have the constant support of their family and peers? Have you considered that you're NOT the centre of the whole damn universe. And. What. The. ****! are you doing staring into the audience looking for a friend in the middle of your show? Do you have any idea how flagrantly unprofessional that is? No wonder you got fired from your Broadway gig in the third movie! SERIOUSLY, YOU'RE SUCH AN AWFUL PERSON!

*pant* *pant*

Sorry. I feel much better now.

Look. Friends not showing up to your events, getting dumped from a show, being told you're a bad actor, are admittedly frustrating things. She's totally allowed to feel disappointed, but all she does is mope and complain (even when her life isn't even that bad). By the second film she's not only in a legitimate play with her face plastered on posters across this little place called NEW YORK, but she's also engaged to a respectable, kind, well paid man who is an astronaut and local hero (because astronauts are still considered heroes by the public at large, apparently).

And what does she do with this man who loves her very much? She uses him as ammunition against Peter's feelings, ultimately leaving the poor guy at the altar without so much as a warning just because "NOW she's ready to be with Peter". Get engaged or break it off all you want ladies, but getting engaged so you can hurt another man ain't nothing but a ***** move. To BOTH men.

Obviously I'm not saying that we would want Peter to be rude to MJ for no reason. We don't. But the facts don't lie. She never adequately demonstrates an incredible talent or trait, she's a hypocritical ***** who uses other people to hurt the man she supposedly loves out of petty revenge, and in spite of all this Pete STILL seems to have a constant ***** for her. The reason is, sadly, all too simple:

Mary Jane, in the movies, wasn't a character. She was a prize. A prize with varying degrees of difficulty one needed to surpass in order to win her. A lady prize.

I could never care about her because the only thing she was good at was being useless. She was a background character with an overabundance of screen time. She was obstacle for Spider-man whenever the villains put her in danger, but I could never understand why Spider-man had invested in her in the first place that she would be considered SUCH an invaluable obstacle to EVERY single one of his enemies. All of her problems, whether it was about her failing career or her being dropped off a bridge, needed to be solved by someone else or not at all, and she had no say in the outcome. She was an object, a bartering tool for bad guys, who was put in life or death situations not by any choice of her own, but because she is a victim. A helpless victim. A victim who needs saving.

Remember what I said about victims last time? The audience HATES victims. Even if we don't know it. We'll often be too distracted to notice, but deep down inside it just grates on us how useless victims are. We want to see a character who fights back. Instead she just hangs around (sometimes literally) waiting for the Superhero to do something. She's an obstacle for Spider-man, and she's a stumbling block for Peter. Half the time she's being kidnapped, and the other half she's criticizing and judging Pete at every turn, never giving him an opportunity to defend himself. Gosh. She sure is amazing.

Wow, this is perfectly said!

Emma Stone/Gwen is a much better character!

 

[Smegger56]

Wow, this is perfectly said!

Emma Stone/Gwen is a much better character!

Credit has to be given to Webb and Vanderbilt as well as Stone. Gwen is a very well written and performed character.

 

[Fox]

Absolutely. Screenwriters are so often the unsung heroes of successful movies. Marc Webb and the cast did a fantastic job, but Vanderbilt put together a solid screenplay and definitely deserves to get his share of the credit.

Getting a good actor paired against good writing is a lot harder than you would initially think, and we're lucky we got both (in my opinion) with TASM.

It should also be said that while I'm not a fan of Kirsten Dunst (I really don't think she's a capable actor at all), that I largely blame the portrayal of MJ on the writers.

 

[Majik1387]

I'm going to pull a quote from my posts, because re-writing all of my problems with MJ would be exhausting. You can read the whole article in its entirety here if you'd like.

http://fenskeland.blogspot.ca/2012/11/gwen-stacy-vs-mary-jane-babe-edition.html

Concerning Mary Jane from Spider-man 1-3

The first problem I had with MJ in the film is that all throughout she's treated as THE MOST DESIRABLE WOMAN EVER, but then we're not really given a reason as to why. It's not that I have a hard time believing that Peter would ever find Kirsten Dunst/MJ attractive, but he's been worshiping her from afar since kindergarten even though she's basically ignored him the entire time. Why? I could MAYBE understand it if there was something that set her apart; perhaps if she were gifted in the arts, or highly intelligent like Peter. I would even be willing to understand his infatuation if she was simply an overtly charismatic and outgoing woman, like in the comics.

She was none of those things.

The writers kept trying to convince us that she was special, and that we should love her. They played the sympathy card; her family is dysfunctional, and she dreams of a better life, of being a star etc. And that's fine, but what part of that makes her appealing? Don't get me wrong, I know and love plenty of dysfunctional people, but never BECAUSE they're dysfunctional.

Every significant interaction between Mary Jane and Peter (besides the scenes where they confess their love for each other with tediously awkward monologues) involves her filling Pete in on the latest developments of her unending sob story. Every complaint she has seems to imply that she shouldn't be beholden to the same rules as the rest of the world. Here are some examples of her life dilemmas:

The first scene between Pete and MJ (in the back yard)

MJ: "My parents are the worst. I just want to LEAVE here FOREVER!"

PETE: "Yeah. You're Amazing."

WHAT PETE SHOULD HAVE SAID: "Gosh that's awful. You should start working towards leaving here."

In the city after highschool:

MJ: "My audition SUCKED! They told me I needed acting lessons. A SOAP OPERA told me to get acting lessons!"

PETE: What!? But you're amazing!

WHAT PETE SHOULD HAVE SAID: Well... have you ever considered that maybe you need acting lessons? Maybe you should take lessons. LIKE MOST ACTORS.

In Spider-man 2 after Pete missed her show:

[Note: the Following is Mary Jane's actual line.]

MJ: By the way, John has seen my show 5 times, Harry has seen it twice, Aunt May has seen it, My SICK mother got out of BED to see it. Even my Father... he came back stage to borrow cash. But my BEST friend, who cares SO much about me, can't even make an eight o'clock curtain. After all these years he's nothing to me but an empty seat."

PETE: (watches as she leaves). Gosh she's right. I don't deserve someone so amazing.

WHAT PETE SHOULD HAVE SAID: ... *ahem* ... Shut your dumb*** mouth, *****! Did you ever consider that I had to work over time to pay the bills for my ****** apartment? Or maybe I got caught in a car accident (which is exactly what happened)? Maybe, instead of being a self-centered *****, just be glad that so many of your friends are coming to your freaking show of WHICH YOU ARE A LEAD CHARACTER! Do you realize how many artists DON'T have the constant support of their family and peers? Have you considered that you're NOT the centre of the whole damn universe. And. What. The. ****! are you doing staring into the audience looking for a friend in the middle of your show? Do you have any idea how flagrantly unprofessional that is? No wonder you got fired from your Broadway gig in the third movie! SERIOUSLY, YOU'RE SUCH AN AWFUL PERSON!

*pant* *pant*

Sorry. I feel much better now.

Look. Friends not showing up to your events, getting dumped from a show, being told you're a bad actor, are admittedly frustrating things. She's totally allowed to feel disappointed, but all she does is mope and complain (even when her life isn't even that bad). By the second film she's not only in a legitimate play with her face plastered on posters across this little place called NEW YORK, but she's also engaged to a respectable, kind, well paid man who is an astronaut and local hero (because astronauts are still considered heroes by the public at large, apparently).

And what does she do with this man who loves her very much? She uses him as ammunition against Peter's feelings, ultimately leaving the poor guy at the altar without so much as a warning just because "NOW she's ready to be with Peter". Get engaged or break it off all you want ladies, but getting engaged so you can hurt another man ain't nothing but a ***** move. To BOTH men.

Obviously I'm not saying that we would want Peter to be rude to MJ for no reason. We don't. But the facts don't lie. She never adequately demonstrates an incredible talent or trait, she's a hypocritical ***** who uses other people to hurt the man she supposedly loves out of petty revenge, and in spite of all this Pete STILL seems to have a constant ***** for her. The reason is, sadly, all too simple:

Mary Jane, in the movies, wasn't a character. She was a prize. A prize with varying degrees of difficulty one needed to surpass in order to win her. A lady prize.

I could never care about her because the only thing she was good at was being useless. She was a background character with an overabundance of screen time. She was obstacle for Spider-man whenever the villains put her in danger, but I could never understand why Spider-man had invested in her in the first place that she would be considered SUCH an invaluable obstacle to EVERY single one of his enemies. All of her problems, whether it was about her failing career or her being dropped off a bridge, needed to be solved by someone else or not at all, and she had no say in the outcome. She was an object, a bartering tool for bad guys, who was put in life or death situations not by any choice of her own, but because she is a victim. A helpless victim. A victim who needs saving.

Remember what I said about victims last time? The audience HATES victims. Even if we don't know it. We'll often be too distracted to notice, but deep down inside it just grates on us how useless victims are. We want to see a character who fights back. Instead she just hangs around (sometimes literally) waiting for the Superhero to do something. She's an obstacle for Spider-man, and she's a stumbling block for Peter. Half the time she's being kidnapped, and the other half she's criticizing and judging Pete at every turn, never giving him an opportunity to defend himself. Gosh. She sure is amazing.

I like this guy.

 

[spider-neil]

I love the heck out of ASM but imho nothing in ASM approaches the graveyard fight or the clocktower train fight.

 

[Smegger56]

Absolutely. Screenwriters are so often the unsung heroes of successful movies. Marc Webb and the cast did a fantastic job, but Vanderbilt put together a solid screenplay and definitely deserves to get his share of the credit.

Getting a good actor paired against good writing is a lot harder than you would initially think, and we're lucky we got both (in my opinion) with TASM.

It should also be said that while I'm not a fan of Kirsten Dunst (I really don't think she's a capable actor at all), that I largely blame the portrayal of MJ on the writers.

Yep. Writers need to be given a fair share of credit.

Example... Look at Natalie Portman. Fantastic actress, but terrible in Star Wars eps 1-3. Whilst I think Dunst wasn't the best choice for MJ, she wasn't helped by a poorly written characeter (IMO).

So Agreed with you

 

[Anno_Domini]

I love the heck out of ASM but imho nothing in ASM approaches the graveyard fight or the clocktower train fight.

Graveyard fight?

 

[SpiderMan'sBoot]

I always get confused when people say the graveyard fight, is that Goblin v Spidey at the end of SM1? Or have I got that wrong?

 

[The Joker]

Yes, the graveyard fight is the final fight. Personally I never understood that label either. They were in an old building, not a graveyard.

 

[Fox]

I think it gets labeled as a graveyard because it has that ambiance. The fog. Tr murky-dark-blue lighting. But yeah, it's really more of a condemned building.