Official Rugby World Cup 2015 General discussion thread

[DarthSkywalker]

That is the match.

 

[jmc]

26-13 now. Hard luck England. They let that first half get away from them.

 

[jmc]

Final nail. England are out.

 

[Fallen Angel]

Bloody disgrace this. Thank f**k I'm a Rugby League man. But then again we do frick all in League as well.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

First host nation to not qualify for the knockout stage.

 

[Hound55]

Bernard Foley just played the match of his life.

 

[jmc]

Earliest ever exit for a tier one nation. They still have to play Uruguay next week.

 

[Iceman]

Congrats to Australia. They were good today. Look forward to seeing them against a NZ or SA.

 

[Batmannerism]

First, condolences to all you England fans. Yes, England deserved better from the draw, but your country deserved better from the team.

I know that Football is the dominant code in the UK, and this disaster has probably set the domestic game (rugby that is) back quite a bit. I've seen England at its very best (2003 RWC, and beating the ABs twice, HERE, which is an enormous achievement) and at its worst.

I don't know what can be done to make sure that this doesn't happen again. It seems like since 2003, nothing's really seemed to work - in fact the RWC final appearance in 2007 was mostly on the back of veterans left over from the 2003 team.
Having said all that, NZ went 24 years ( 5 RWCs) between wins in 1987 and 2011. The dread of another AB's choke came around every 4 years.
So, better things may be ahead ( our worst result, a QF defeat in 2007, was followed up by a win in 2011).

Hang in there, sooner or later someone will come along and sort out English rugby - at least you know that that things can't get worse.

As for Pool A, well there's still a lot to play for. If Wales can topple Australia, then they'll get an easier QF - as whoever comes runner up likely faces the Boks ! That means Aussie v Wales should be a cracker.


Second, Pool B !!!!!! Wow !!!!!! Japan are really the team of the tournament, in terms of entertainment value.

Of course, as an earlier poster said, the effect of bonus points is going to be felt, as that might be how the QF line ups will be decided. Scotland is still one point ahead of Japan - but Japan have only poor USA to play (and a crushing victory might give them the boost they need).

If Samoa topple Scotland, then Japan will most certainly advance.
Would love to see that, but Samoa is in disarray, and I'm not sure if they can pull it together against a strong Scottish side.

The other big story is the resurgence of the Springboks, in some ways the defeat to Japan may have acutally helped them - by providing a much needed kick in the complacency. If they can maintain this momentum, I don't think Wales will be able to stop them (although it would be fantastic if they did !)

Personally, I've always enjoyed watching Springbok matches because they play such a direct, hard-hitting but still expansive style of rugby - and of course the odd ear-bite or punch. If they go through to a semi, it'll likely be against us (unless we get kO'd at the QF, which has happened before).

Given the form the Boks are showing, compared to the form the ABs are showing, if the game was today, I'd give it to the Boks.

Hansen and co need to be analysing both SA and Australia very carefully (especially in light of today's win against England) to work out the right gameplan - otherwise we'll never defend the cup. And they'd better put McCaw and Carter on ice for the Tonga game - I don't care if Naholo's leg gets broken again, we can win without flashy one-off performers, what we need is the breakdown dominance of McCaw and the tactical brilliance of Carter (especially given Foley's strong showing today !)

Speaking of the ABs, as for Pool C, despite some ho-hum performances, we'll go through on top, with Argentina as the runner up.

The big question is who is going through from pool D, well okay not who but in which order. I'm picking Ireland as pool winner and France as runner up.


Looking forward to the end of the pools and QF time !

 

[jmc]

I really don't know if Samoa can beat Scotland, they have looked ordinary in their last two games. World Rugby is going to be kicking themselves for the schedule they gave Japan at the end of this tournament. Less than 1% of the Japanese population watched Japan beat the Boks, 30% watched the follow up match against Scotland 4 days later. All that publicity wasted on a bad schedule. Had Japan been given a full seven days break the result could have been vastly different. Japan showed today against Samoa what they can do when they are fully rested, although they seemed to slack off once the lead was substantial. But regardless of what happens next week winning 3 Pool matches, finishing third and upsetting one of the superpowers is going to do wonders in terms of promotion for Rugby World Cup 2019 in Japan. If the national team can keep this up there's no doubting they can make the knockout stage in 4 years time.

 

[Batmannerism]

I really don't know if Samoa can beat Scotland, they have looked ordinary in their last two games. World Rugby is going to be kicking themselves for the schedule they gave Japan at the end of this tournament. Less than 1% of the Japanese population watched Japan beat the Boks, 30% watched the follow up match against Scotland 4 days later. All that publicity wasted on a bad schedule. Had Japan been given a full seven days break the result could have been vastly different. Japan showed today against Samoa what they can do when they are fully rested, although they seemed to slack off once the lead was substantial. But regardless of what happens next week winning 3 Pool matches, finishing third and upsetting one of the superpowers is going to do wonders in terms of promotion for Rugby World Cup 2019 in Japan. If the national team can keep this up there's no doubting they can make the knockout stage in 4 years time.

Hmmmm...... that's a big call. Sure they've put together 2 impressive performances, but there are a lot of variables (like the 2019 draw). It would be very good for the game internationally if Japan did make the QF stage, but I would be very hesitant to think of it as a sure thing - not saying it can't happen, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Many teams, even so-called top tier teams, vary greatly in performance both at and between world cups. In 2003 the Springboks weren't particularly impressive, but in 2007 they won ! The ABs were finalists in 1987, winning, but didn't win again until 2011.

All I'm saying is, that it would be a big ask for japan to keep the momentum they've gained, and improve - it would require stability of coaching and players, which I'm not sure they're going to get.

Still, fingers crossed they make a QF this time around, would be great for the game.

 

[Iceman]

Apart from our World Cup winning team England are always going to struggle against the the big 3 of NZ, SA & Australia. Even when the teams are close in ability, confidence & winning mentality will favour the other teams. No reason why England can't get the other semi-final spot in any given World Cup competing with the other best Northern hemisphere teams and at worst they should always get into the quarter finals. It's only a group like this with 2 other big teams where they could go out before that and it's a shame that this draw happened in the year we host the World Cup. Credit to both Wales and Australia though. Will be interesting to see how far they both get.

 

[Iceman]

I really don't know if Samoa can beat Scotland, they have looked ordinary in their last two games. World Rugby is going to be kicking themselves for the schedule they gave Japan at the end of this tournament. Less than 1% of the Japanese population watched Japan beat the Boks, 30% watched the follow up match against Scotland 4 days later. All that publicity wasted on a bad schedule. Had Japan been given a full seven days break the result could have been vastly different. Japan showed today against Samoa what they can do when they are fully rested, although they seemed to slack off once the lead was substantial. But regardless of what happens next week winning 3 Pool matches, finishing third and upsetting one of the superpowers is going to do wonders in terms of promotion for Rugby World Cup 2019 in Japan. If the national team can keep this up there's no doubting they can make the knockout stage in 4 years time.

Their achievements have been amazing at this World Cup. Aside from beating one of the biggest teams, one that could even win the thing, they totally dominated Samoa. Should help make the World Cup a big thing there in 2019.

I don't know if they'll qualify though unless they get a group like this with only one other major team in the same group (although I guess that might happen if they are seeded as hosts). They are hugely improved but the top 8 teams will probably consist of NZ, SA, Australia, Argentina, England, Wales, Ireland and France and it would be hard for them to get past any 2 of them.

 

[Batmannerism]

Apart from our World Cup winning team England are always going to struggle against the the big 3 of NZ, SA & Australia. Even when the teams are close in ability, confidence & winning mentality will favour the other teams. No reason why England can't get the other semi-final spot in any given World Cup competing with the other best Northern hemisphere teams and at worst they should always get into the quarter finals. It's only a group like this with 2 other big teams where they could go out before that and it's a shame that this draw happened in the year we host the World Cup. Credit to both Wales and Australia though. Will be interesting to see how far they both get.

Hey, in 2007, England KO'd Australia in a semifinal. This clearly wasn't their tournament, but with players like Farrell, you have the basis to rebuild - if you can bridge the gap in loose forward play - which is where the ABs, Boks and Aussies really dominate the game

The 2003 team had Richard Hill, Lewis Moody and Neil Back, who were hard-assed grizzled workhorses and virtually made of stone. Until you can really develop some power loosies, you'll lag behind us - it just seems to be the way the modern game has developed that the breakdown has become more important (although I suppose good loosies has always = possesion, which in turn gives the backs something to work with).

In the past you've compensated for this with a powerful scrum, super-accurate kickers, and a swift and merciless backline (not as flashy as some of our lot, but workmanlike and able to break the line - I'm thinking of Tindall, Greenwood and Robinson)

I had great hopes for Haskell, who played a season with Otago ( Martin Johnson played rugby in New Zealand as a school boy), but he hasn't delivered.

I'm sure England will do better next world cup - but clearly some serious rebuilding is needed, and a bunch of your players and coaching staff will have to move on.

One thought. For the style of rugby that England plays, I always thought that Robbie Deans would have been your ideal coach - yes, he struggled in Australia, but the style of play he developed with the Crusaders would suit the English approach to the game - just my opinion.

Who will England's fans get behind now ? Scotland ? Wales ? Ireland ?

 

[jmc]

In related news it would appear that Asia will get a second automatic qualifying place at the next World Cup given Japan will finish top 3 in their pool. Japan qualified as hosts regardless but apparently their position in this tournament was going to be the deciding factor in giving Asia a second place at the next World Cup. It would appear now either South Korea or Hong Kong are in line for a first ever World Cup appearance in 4 years time.

 

[jmc]

I pity the team who plays Argentina in the Quarterfinals. Pumas over Tonga 45-16.

 

[Iceman]

Argentina are becoming a real force. Wonder how they do against the Northern hemisphere teams.

 

[Kaleb]

if the current standing hold , then this would be the qrt finals ?

South Africa vs Wales
New Zealand vs Ireland
France vs Argentina
Australia vs Scotland

?

 

[jmc]

That would appear correct.

 

[Iceman]

Ireland 10-6 up against Italy.

 

[jmc]

Italy holding firm. Interesting second half awaits.

 

[Iceman]

Yes this one could be much closer than most of the games we've seen.

 

[Iceman]

14 mins into the 2nd half and the gap has narrowed! 10-9. Italy very much in this.

 

[jmc]

I dare say there are going to be some nervous Irish fans at the moment. 10-9 Ireland.

 

[Iceman]

One more pen 13-9.