Comics Official UNCANNY X-MEN Discussion Thread

[OutcryX]

I think she means that PHOENIX should stay away...NOT Jean. There are some that think the two are separate and NOT the same being/entity.

whenever the fire bird appears things get messy and convoluted

 

[Manic]

Well, I'm hoping Jean passes the Phoenix Force on to Hope and we can call it a day.

 

[ChaoticPsylocke]

agreed. that would be perfect.

and jeebus that cover is so fugly. i cant believe they arent going to fix the random bad things about it. its clearly incomplete and unfinished.

 

[UraniaChang]

why?????
Unless you wont like Scott facing all his bad decisions

Well, I mean the bird, though I have no particular interests in Jean, either.

Besides, Jean with Pheonix means bad decision, and eventually death drama.

I hardly think Scott has made numerous bad decisons so far, all he did is to prevent the race he belonged stayed alive and will still be alive until they got Hope back.

 

[roach]

i mean the bad decisions he made with her....and I like Jean

 

[UraniaChang]

I've been over this for numerous times, she wasn't perfect herself, so she can drop the "poor me" excuses, if I were him I'd dump her long time ago, when she was enjoying the game of playing two males around.

 

[roach]

what the hell are you talking about???

 

[UraniaChang]

Well, how about the kiss she had with Wolverine?

 

[roach]

Look im not going to get into a tit for tat arguement with you over Scott and Jean's activities....cause when it comes to Scott you seem to have singular vision (pun intended)...he can do no wrong..which is exactly how Marvel is showcasing him. Right now the X-books are written badly

 

[UraniaChang]

Who ever said he did no wrong?

The point has always been Jean's problem always got overlook (always played the perfect girl routine when she was abolutely not).

I think he shouldn't cheat with Emma (and I don't blame Emma for the problem alone, it takes two to do the action), like he should have talked his problem with Madelyne first instead of taking off, but I understand why he made those mistakes.

His biggest issue is he can handle professional difficulties but alway stumble over his personal ones, and I like that about him, it makes him real.

 

[Manic]

About the Scott/Jean thing... let's be real. Anyone who read Phoenix: Endsong remembers the way Jean views Scott and Emma's relationship. She acknowledges that Scott wants Emma now. She accepts their relationship. If Jean came back and approached those two, she'd probably just try to give Scott the closure he needs to stop dreaming about her.

 

[Havok83]

I've been over this for numerous times, she wasn't perfect herself, so she can drop the "poor me" excuses, if I were him I'd dump her long time ago, when she was enjoying the game of playing two males around.

In their long history, the only argument against her was that kiss in New X-men, which Morrison threw out there to help justify Scott/Emma. Jean's always been devoted to the guy and never wavered on her lovefor him

About the Scott/Jean thing... let's be real. Anyone who read Phoenix: Endsong remembers the way Jean views Scott and Emma's relationship. She acknowledges that Scott wants Emma now. She accepts their relationship. If Jean came back and approached those two, she'd probably just try to give Scott the closure he needs to stop dreaming about her.

and also theres no way Jean would condone the crap he's been slinging lately. She wouldnt be quiet and stand by her man like Emma is right now. She'd have some moral issues with his decisions and behavior which is enough to keep a rift between them

 

[UraniaChang]

In their long history, the only argument against her was that kiss in New X-men, which Morrison threw out there to help justify Scott/Emma. Jean's always been devoted to the guy and never wavered on her lovefor him

She did it before he cheated with Emma. That's the problem with Jean, some people just like to pretend she was perfect. Even when I was a kid I already thought of her a not so good woman.

and also theres no way Jean would condone the crap he's been slinging lately. She wouldnt be quiet and stand by her man like Emma is right now. She'd have some moral issues with his decisions and behavior which is enough to keep a rift between them

Easy for her to say, she was not the one who had to handle all the problems when she was having her time sight-seeing in the universe. Not to mention she has killed more innocents than everyone combined.

 

[Manic]

Truth be told, I want to see Charles (and Jean when she comes back) leave Utopia to form their own splinter group of X-Men. Charles clearly doesn't like the stuff Scott's been doing (X-Force, surfacing Asteroid M to use as a base, accepting Magneto with open arms, not letting him return to the mainland to stop Mystique from pretending to be him), and I think he's only staying on Utopia because he thinks mutants stand a better chance of survival if every rival faction comes together (hence why Charles told the Acolytes to move to San Francisco a while back). But I think if Charles got pushed enough and someone whose opinion he respected said the X-Men shouldn't be what Scott's turning them into, Charles would leave and form his own team. And I think Charles would take a sizable chunk of the X-Men with him if he left.

 

[Manic]

Easy for her to say, she was not the one who had to handle all the problems when she was having her time sight-seeing in the universe. Not to mention she has killed more innocents than everyone combined.

In her defense, she only killed so many people because Scott's current girlfriend had driven her completely insane with a lot of reckless telepathic prodding.

 

[UraniaChang]

If Charles is happier with someone waiting him at his feet, I'll be very glad it's not Scott.
Truth to be told, I think Charles is the type who wants to be in charge of everything, including Scott's life.


Right, and it should be reason enough because?
I got bullied so I should take a gun shooting everyone in sight, because I'm the victim here.

 

[Manic]

If Charles is happier with someone waiting him at his feet, I'll be very glad it's not Scott.
Truth to be told, I think Charles is the type who wants to be in charge of everything, including Scott's life.

Charles doesn't strike me as needing to be in charge of everything. That was always Magneto's bag. That's why Magneto kept claiming to want to do whatever's best for mutantkind, but would throw a hissyfit if anyone else was put in charge (until recently, of course). Charles always seemed to be grooming his students to take over for him. That's why he always felt comfortable leaving other people in charge whenever he left the mansion (when he left the X-Men to Storm during his time in space in the 80's, or when he left the team to Scott and the students to Jean & Emma throughout New X-Men). Even when Charles came back from Shi'ar space recently, he seemed to accept that Scott was the man in charge.

He just wants someone to take his freaking advice now.

Right, and it should be reason enough because?
I got bullied so I should take a gun shooting everyone in sight, because I'm the victim here.

Jean wasn't bullied. A powerful telepath entered her mind and accidentally fractured her personality and general sanity while trying to control her. Jean had no control over her actions after Emma and Mastermind screwed her head up. That's how Jean became the Dark Phoenix. She was driven insane.

If someone subjected you to heavy brainwashing and it caused your mind to snap until you started killing people, I'd probably excuse that as insanity.

 

[UraniaChang]

Charles doesn't strike me as needing to be in charge of everything. That was always Magneto's bag. That's why Magneto kept claiming to want to do whatever's best for mutantkind, but would throw a hissyfit if anyone else was put in charge (until recently, of course). Charles always seemed to be grooming his students to take over for him. That's why he always felt comfortable leaving other people in charge whenever he left the mansion (when he left the X-Men to Storm during his time in space in the 80's, or when he left the team to Scott and the students to Jean & Emma throughout New X-Men). Even when Charles came back from Shi'ar space recently, he seemed to accept that Scott was the man in charge.

He just wants someone to take his freaking advice now.

I see him as some bitter old man, especially when he let the kids out to try to be tough in Messiah, if he was that caring, he should have known that there was a reason Scott kept them in the mansion, but he did it out of spite because Scott didn't want his "advice".

Jean wasn't bullied. A powerful telepath entered her mind and accidentally fractured her personality and general sanity while trying to control her. Jean had no control over her actions after Emma and Mastermind screwed her head up. That's how Jean became the Dark Phoenix. She was driven insane.

If someone subjected you to heavy brainwashing and it caused your mind to snap until you started killing people, I'd probably excuse that as insanity.

Then Scott's mind was also screwed by Apocalypse's possesion, you could argue that he wasn't thinking it right when he did Emma, and Jean wasn't helping the matter when she should know firsthand what was it like to be possessed, besdies, lots of people like to babble about how powerful a telepath Jean is, mind is her domain, so two much less poerful mind controllers like Mastermind and Emma shouldn't be enough to push her that far.

 

[Havok83]

Easy for her to say, she was not the one who had to handle all the problems when she was having her time sight-seeing in the universe. Not to mention she has killed more innocents than everyone combined.

Technically that wasnt even her...it was some cosmic entity that had taken her place. It was that same entity that did the killing bc she had been driven crazy thanks in part to Emma, the one that Scott is currently with

If Charles is happier with someone waiting him at his feet, I'll be very glad it's not Scott.
Truth to be told, I think Charles is the type who wants to be in charge of everything, including Scott's life.


Right, and it should be reason enough because?
I got bullied so I should take a gun shooting everyone in sight, because I'm the victim here.

That currently describes Scott seeing how he is in charge of everyone.

Then Scott's mind was also screwed by Apocalypse's possesion, you could argue that he wasn't thinking it right when he did Emma, and Jean wasn't helping the matter when she should know firsthand what was it like to be possessed, besdies, lots of people like to babble about how powerful a telepath Jean is, mind is her domain, so two much less poerful mind controllers like Mastermind and Emma shouldn't be enough to push her that far.

Its not much of a valid comaprison as everything Scott did in New X-men was a conscience decision. He was never written as insane. As for Jean being a powerful telepath; she wasnt back then. She got a major power upgrade in the 90s. Prior to that her telepathy was second to her TK. The TP itself was a retcon

 

[UraniaChang]

Technically that wasnt even her...it was some cosmic entity that had taken her place. It was that same entity that did the killing bc she had been driven crazy thanks in part to Emma, the one that Scott is currently with

Oh, when there's a bad thing it's the Phoenix, when there's a good one it's Jean's doing.

What a perfect character.

That currently describes Scott seeing how he is in charge of everyone.

He isn't forcing anyone to stay on the island ,taking carge of other people's perdonal decisions, or being pissed that someone doesn't want his advice, if you want someone to do things for you then you need to let them have some power over things. It's a fair deal.

 

[Havok83]

Oh, when there's a bad thing it's the Phoenix, when there's a good one it's Jean's doing.

What a perfect character.

Love it or hate it, its canon. Thats what the X-factor retcon established. She has the Phoenix memories, but she was in the bottom of the Jamaica Bay when all of that stuff was happening

He isn't forcing anyone to stay on the island ,taking carge of other people's perdonal decisions, or being pissed that someone doesn't want his advice, if you want someone to do things for you then you need to let them have some power over things. It's a fair deal.

That doesnt change the fact that he's in charge of everything which is what you claimed Charles wants to be. Scott is more like him than he'd care to beleive. Its what Ive been saying since he started crapping on Xavier. Difference now is he's starting to be more like Magneto to. He seems to be a mix of those two

 

[UraniaChang]

Love it or hate it, its canon. Thats what the X-factor retcon established. She has the Phoenix memories, but she was in the bottom of the Jamaica Bay when all of that stuff was happening

Then basically she didn't even exist from a long time ago, everything significent wasn't done by her hands, she is technically long "dead", which makes her an empty character.

If Marvel says they're going to retcon the history between Scott, Emma and Jean, I'd still say no, it's better that you did some ****y things and learn from your mistakes than being a pure white empty paper.

That doesnt change the fact that he's in charge of everything which is what you claimed Charles wants to be. Scott is more like him than he'd care to beleive. Its what Ive been saying since he started crapping on Xavier. Difference now is he's starting to be more like Magneto to. He seems to be a mix of those two

Well, the President is in charge of a whole country, are you going to blam the President for taking charge? So long as the President doesn't get involved with my personal business, I'll let him drive his wheel.

I'm glad Scott's the mix of Xavier and Magneto, because both of whom are at the opposite to each other and never got the job done.

 

[Manic]

Didn't Classic X-Men establish that the real Jean was still part of the Phoenix during the Dark Phoenix Saga? Emma and Mastermind had driven her insane at the time, but that was still Jean. She can't pass off the whole thing as the actions of a malevolent space bird posing as her.

 

[Havok83]

Then basically she didn't even exist from a long time ago, everything significent wasn't done by her hands, she is technically long "dead", which makes her an empty character.

If Marvel says they're going to retcon the history between Scott, Emma and Jean, I'd still say no, it's better that you did some ****y things and learn from your mistakes than being a pure white empty paper.

Well she did take responsibility for what happened and felt guilt and remorse for it. Claremont dealt with that issue during Revolution. Even though it wasnt her that destroyed the star, she felt responsible bc she allowed Phoenix to merge with her in order to save Scott and the other X-men back in UXM 101 when she was piloting the space craft. She thought she was going to die and she accepted that when she decided to fly the spacecraft. She had no idea that the PF would take on her form and eventually lose its mind. She thought she was sacrificing herself to save the man she loved but in the process also set in motion an event that would eventually be beyond her control. UXM 387 had her coming to terms with that.

Well, the President is in charge of a whole country, are you going to blam the President for taking charge? So long as the President doesn't get involved with my personal business, I'll let him drive his wheel.

I'm glad Scott's the mix of Xavier and Magneto, because both of whom are at the opposite to each other and never got the job done.

lol..bad example. I see your not from the US right? Our last president was a disaster and yeah most people blamed him for taking charge and hated on him right till the very end. Not just us but hte rest of the world. You did hear about him getting 2 shoes thrown at him during a press conference? So no, not even in the real world do people just sit by idle and not get vocal against a leader

 

[UraniaChang]

Well she did take responsibility for what happened and felt guilt and remorse for it. Claremont dealt with that issue during Revolution. Even though it wasnt her that destroyed the star, she felt responsible bc she allowed Phoenix to merge with her in order to save Scott and the other X-men back in UXM 101 when she was piloting the space craft. She thought she was going to die and she accepted that when she decided to fly the spacecraft. She had no idea that the PF would take on her form and eventually lose its mind. She thought she was sacrificing herself to save the man she loved but in the process also set in motion an event that would eventually be beyond her control. UXM 387 had her coming to terms with that.

Though she never had the courage to admit that she had a wandering eye.
If it wasn't so obvious, they wouldn't have hinted her and Wolverine so many times when in cartoons (mostly the 90' one) or movies.

lol..bad example. I see your not from the US right? Our last president was a disaster and yeah most people blamed him for taking charge and hated on him right till the very end.

No, but actually I think Mr. Bush's position was hard, if he didn't do anything, then some people in your country would still scream at him for not punishing the enemy, so he took action, and seeing that he is from Texas, he probably has some cowboy spirit in his character and temper to make the decision to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.
Though my biggest problem with him is that he should just be honest and say 'Yeah, I hate Hussein, that man is a threat to the Americans and our way of living, so what if I want to off him even if there's no nuclear weaponary on his hand?', same with Afghanistan because of Bin Laden, and he should have tried to bomb the whole country flat before he sent any troops in, because everyone knows America can't win a Guerrilla war.

So, basically, he failed at tactics, not his purpose in protecting his country.