Comics Official X-Men Forever Thread

[Havok83]

I disagree. I actually liked Nicieza's Gambit a lot.

well I was mainly talking about this decade, since Claremont took over back in 2000. I never read his solo stuff. I know out of any of the material seen within the pages of the X-men books, Claremont has been the only decent writer for him since.

 

[katie_girl09]

well I was mainly talking about this decade, since Claremont took over back in 2000. I never read his solo stuff. I know out of any of the material seen within the pages of the X-men books, Claremont has been the only decent writer for him since.

Fair enough. But I thought Gambit's solo went into 2000?
At any rate, you should pick it up. Its very well-written imo.

 

[roach]

I agree. I should also point out that the (IMO) stupid reasons why Morrison gave Emma the diamond power is because he (a) wanted someone to replace Colossus in the super strong invulnerable category and (b) wanted her to have a power that reflects her codename.

that was basic Mary-sueing at its worst. Beast was superstrong until they made him a cat

 

[Havok83]

Out of all the secondary mutations that came about in the early 00s, Emma's was my favorite. Visually it looks great and I think the power actually works for her. And it does make sense. Secondary mutations are not necesarily tied to the person's original power. They are brought about by life or death situations which cause the body to mutate in order to help save the mutant. Thats exactly what happened with Emma, the catalyst for her change obviously being the Genosha genocide

 

[katie_girl09]

Nah. Didn't like it. Felt very tacked-on and Mary-Sueish to me.

 

[Blade X]

that was basic Mary-sueing at its worst. Beast was superstrong until they made him a cat

Yep, Beast was superstrong (and even had a healing factor) until he became another generic cat man.

 

[roach]

exactly Beast had a very unique powerset until they made him pretty much blue wolverine

 

[roach]

Out of all the secondary mutations that came about in the early 00s, Emma's was my favorite. Visually it looks great and I think the power actually works for her. And it does make sense. Secondary mutations are not necesarily tied to the person's original power. They are brought about by life or death situations which cause the body to mutate in order to help save the mutant. Thats exactly what happened with Emma, the catalyst for her change obviously being the Genosha genocide

Its still Mary sueish and un needed for her

 

[stillanerd]

Looking at the preview pages in X-Men Forever Alpha, I can understand why it appears as though Claremont

Spoiler

seemingly kills Wolverine. For one thing, it definitively sets this X-Men book apart from the others in that Logan is taken out of the picture after a few issues, not to mention how overexposed he's become in Marvel's 616 continuity books. It also allows for other characters to be focused on rather than having Logan take center stage. And, considering how Sabretooth is on the team and that Claremont is making him Logan's father, it provides the opportunity to reveal what Claremont had in mind about Logan's past without him having to actually be there; not to mention having two mutants with healing factors and retractable claws would be superfluious.

Even so, I find it odd that Claremont would kill off Wolverine so early, considering it's clear he's establishing that Jean--who if folks remember hasn't seen Logan in years around the time of X-Men #1--is falling in love or at least lusting after Logan again despite being in a relationship with Scott. I suppose his death could be the catalyst for her becoming the Pheonix for real, but it just seems like there's got to be more to it than just that. I suppose it could be setting the stage for the "Dark Wolverine Saga" that Claremont had planned to do before Bob Harras overruled him and was one of those abandoned ideas after Claremont left. But then again, Claremont has stressed that when a person dies in this book, they stay dead. Also, Marvel has done a version of the "Dark Wolverine Saga" twice already in the main continuity, first during the "Twelve" in which Wolverine became one of Apocalypse's horsemen, and again in Mark Millar's "Enemy of the State" in Wolverine. A thrid time might be a bit much.

 

[Johnny Drama]

You guys are insane. Emmas diamond skin was the best thing to happen to that character...

 

[stillanerd]

Well folks, it seems that we can forget about [blackout]Wolverine somehow surviving as seen in the preview pages[/blackout]. In an interview on the X-Addiction podcast dated today, Chris Claremont, while not saying [blackout]Wolverine[/blackout] by name, talks about how the online community is making mention of "the death of a major character," about going back to original stories, and that the death is not real, etc.

Claremont's response: "Guess again. We're not fooling here."

So, it appears that yes, [blackout]Wolverine is in fact going to die in this series and stay dead.[/blackout]

Oh, and about the Gambit's real name supposedly being [blackout]Remy Picard?[/blackout] Claremont states: "As far as Remy goes, he has a different name for every passport."

This and other details about the series here.

 

[mightiest_mortal]

Claremonts really shot himself in the foot then. IS this a mini or an ongoing?I cant see this lasting more than 10 issues, let alone 20. If wolverine was in it at least Marvel would have ANOTHER title with him in, and could rename it Wolverine Forever.. giving it another 20 issues or so at least.

 

[Havok83]

As far as Claremont killing off Wolverine...this was an abandoned plot of his from around that time. I'll put this in spoiler form bc it looks like he might finally get the chance to write it.

Spoiler

Deathstrike was supposed to rip his heart out after the first arc of X-men. He was to remain dead for a year, only to come back as master assasin for the Hand in UXM 294 and become one of the team's most dangerous enemies. The X-men would see him as such but Xavier would be adamant about saving him. Jean was to go undercover within the Hand to attempt to free him of their hold. Logan would then seduce her and break the connection she had with Scott. In a fight with Colossus, Colossus would then rip out Wolverine's claws who would then be given artificial ones from the Hand. The adamantium in him would begin to leach out of his body. The story would end with him eventually regaining control and being reborn as a new Wolverine. After this he and Jean were supposed to be an actual couple

Also Gambit was originally going to be a

Spoiler

villian that infiltrated the team. His ties with Sinister would be revealed and he would cause some major damange to the team

 

[roach]

Claremonts really shot himself in the foot then. IS this a mini or an ongoing?I cant see this lasting more than 10 issues, let alone 20. If wolverine was in it at least Marvel would have ANOTHER title with him in, and could rename it Wolverine Forever.. giving it another 20 issues or so at least.

the xmen dont need wolverine in everybook to be successful

 

[katie_girl09]

the xmen dont need wolverine in everybook to be successful

You beat me to it.
There are other popular characters that can carry the X-men if given a chance. They do not need Wolverine for it to be successful. And its pretty arrogant to think so. No offense.

EDIT: Furthermore, the fact that Wolverine is not in it may make people flock to it. People are seriously getting sick of Wolverine's over-exposure.

 

[mightiest_mortal]

You beat me to it.
There are other popular characters that can carry the X-men if given a chance. They do not need Wolverine for it to be successful. And its pretty arrogant to think so. No

Exactly.. "if given a chance". You really think Marvel will give other characters the chance when it can just slap their favourite cashcow onto it and watch the comics fly out the window?
Is Wolverine so overexposed that it will turn fans away? yes incredibly much so, but the hardcore online fans AREN'T who Marvel are after.. theyre just a small small minority of the people that buy comics. Marvel wouldn't have just launched ANOTHER Wolverine series if they didnt think it would sell.
Wolverine doesnt need to be in a book for it to be succesful (ie. not get canned. doesnt matter if its good or not), but it really does help. tbh its Arrogant to say otherwise

 

[roach]

but thats is what this Claremontverse is about. He can write this book without editorial mandates that wolverine be in every third panel.
and you are right "if given a chance". I think in this universe where anything can and will happen they can get away with killing off Wolverine. I think people are tired of Logan's overexposure. Marvel has plenty of books that dont rely on Wolverine to drive their sales up.

 

[katie_girl09]

You know, Mightiest_Mortal, I'd have to agree with you IF this were the movieverse. The fact is that comic book fans are the ones who buy comics. This is not the GA that we are talking about. Of course Wolverine (just as any other character) has diehard fans. But I can't ignore the strong anti-Wolverine sentiment that I have noticed among comic fans on message boards, and in talking to them in general. People who are NOT diehard Wolverine fans are getting sick of all the attention he's been getting. So much so that I would argue that not having him in this title could even be seen as something positive to a lot of comic book fans. That's all.
And what roach says too. You would buy X-men Forever to get something different from the regular 616 universe.

 

[Johnny Drama]

As far as Claremont killing off Wolverine...this was an abandoned plot of his from around that time. I'll put this in spoiler form bc it looks like he might finally get the chance to write it.

Spoiler

Deathstrike was supposed to rip his heart out after the first arc of X-men. He was to remain dead for a year, only to come back as master assasin for the Hand in UXM 294 and become one of the team's most dangerous enemies. The X-men would see him as such but Xavier would be adamant about saving him. Jean was to go undercover within the Hand to attempt to free him of their hold. Logan would then seduce her and break the connection she had with Scott. In a fight with Colossus, Colossus would then rip out Wolverine's claws who would then be given artificial ones from the Hand. The adamantium in him would begin to leach out of his body. The story would end with him eventually regaining control and being reborn as a new Wolverine. After this he and Jean were supposed to be an actual couple

Also Gambit was originally going to be a

Spoiler

villian that infiltrated the team. His ties with Sinister would be revealed and he would cause some major damange to the team

This pretty much happened already, minus a few bits...

 

[roach]

actually I see CC killing Wolverine as a statement that this is a whole new ball game

 

[sniktsnakt]

Well folks, it seems that we can forget about [blackout]Wolverine somehow surviving as seen in the preview pages[/blackout]. In an interview on the X-Addiction podcast dated today, Chris Claremont, while not saying [blackout]Wolverine[/blackout] by name, talks about how the online community is making mention of "the death of a major character," about going back to original stories, and that the death is not real, etc.

Claremont's response: "Guess again. We're not fooling here."

So, it appears that yes, [blackout]Wolverine is in fact going to die in this series and stay dead.[/blackout]

Oh, and about the Gambit's real name supposedly being [blackout]Remy Picard?[/blackout] Claremont states: "As far as Remy goes, he has a different name for every passport."

This and other details about the series here.

He could have been referring to [BLACKOUT]Magneto, whom we see die earlier in the issue. He might not be Wolverine, but I'd still count him as a major character who has been brought back from the dead a number of times.[/BLACKOUT]

As a die-hard Wolverine fan who never loved Wolverine more than in the 80s and the early 90s, I was (am still am) looking forward to Claremont picking back up the reins for his character. That doesn't mean he needs to have a central role--it's that feature that has made me go kinda "meh" on many of his more recent comics myself. But still, [BLACKOUT]I really hope he's not dead for good. Maybe for a few issues, or a year like he was planning before, but not for good.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[roach]

I think Claremont's explanation for Remy Picard is spot on for the character

 

[sniktsnakt]

I think Claremont's explanation for Remy Picard is spot on for the character

Me too.

I'm kinda excited for June 10th.

DD

 

[roach]

damn when i did my subscription its gonna start with #2 so i got to find a comic shop for #1
I have not been more excited about the Xmen in a very long time

 

[stillanerd]

He could have been referring to [blackout]Magneto, whom we see die earlier in the issue. He might not be Wolverine, but I'd still count him as a major character who has been brought back from the dead a number of times.[/blackout]

The problem with that is

Spoiler

Claremont in that interview I linked to doesn't try to hide the fact about Magneto's death because that's essentially the entire basis for the series. However, he does talk about that the first five issues involve the "death of a major character" that, as well as other events that happen within a 24 hour period, have profound and irreversible effects on at least five different characters. Likewise, he also makes allusion to the fact that because Wolverine is essentially indestructible and immortal, there's this notion of invincibility amongst the other X-Men and suggests, although doesn't quite flat out say it, that if Wolverine gets killed, they suddenly realize how vulnerable they truly are, and that there's no guarantee of survival if they continue on as X-Men.

So, as things stand now in this series for the foreseeable future, [blackout]Wolverine is going to die and stay dead, just like Magneto death is, apparently, a permanent thing as well.[/blackout]