Comics Official X-Men Forever Thread

[roach]

So...anyone read book 4? It was great!!! The best one yet.

i heard it was...got to get it when i get off work

 

[BeetsBearsBSG]

Book 4 was fantastic! I was also fortunate enough to get the only Oz variant cover that either of my two local shops got t:

 

[UraniaChang]

The X-Men (or rather, Greymalkin Industries) is a deputized nonprofit business that specializes in mutant affairs. The only thing that's stopping the US government from shutting them down is the support of the city-county of San Francisco. The last thing Scott needs is a private squad of assassins. The moment X-Force is discovered, there's a huge risk that Mayor Sinclair could pull out her support, and the Last Action Governor could shut them down.

It's just not practical when your team/business partially depends on public relations. Hell, improved public relations between themselves and humans is one of their goals. If Scott wants the X-Men's enemies dead, he should kill them in the heat of battle when no one will question his motives. Killing in defense of yourselves/the city/the world is easily qualified as self defense non-criminal homicide. What X-Force does is murder, and that makes Scott Summers (head of Greymalkin Industries, the last positive force for good in the mutant community that isn't a private detective agency) a second degree murderer.

That touches one of the sensitive points in the mutant/government relationship, the mutants never really trust the government that much. The government will flip on them for one reason or another, so until then, one dead enemy is one less enemy.
It's not like X-Force has killed someone who didn't deserve it, it's better than the passive "slap the bad guys around a bit, then patch them up, wave at them, sit at home for the next attack, and curse the bad guys when they actually come knocking again" routine.

 

[Manic]

That touches one of the sensitive points in the mutant/government relationship, the mutants never really trust the government that much. The government will flip on them for one reason or another, so until then, one dead enemy is one less enemy.
It's not like X-Force has killed someone who didn't deserve it, it's better than the passive "slap the bad guys around a bit, then patch them up, wave at them, sit at home for the next attack, and curse the bad guys when they actually come knocking again" routine.

Right now, trusting the government is exactly what the X-Men are doing, and it's working out just fine. Granted, they're only trusting a few local city governments (San Francisco, Oakland, Marin). The federal government is easily forgetful, stupid, and borderline evil in the Marvel Universe.

I agree that the X-Men need to stop patching up their enemies and letting them loose. Charles Xavier is ridiculously naive for a crippled war veteran. That's why I'm not opposed to the X-Men taking out villains as they strike.

Scott's new proactive way of doing things has the X-Men raiding bars in downtown SF and harassing Avalanche. Avalanche hasn't been active in years, and I think the fact that they found him working in a bar before the X-Men announced their arrival in the city says a lot about how he's been keeping out of trouble. Even if they wanted to pop by and give him a warning, they didn't need to send an entire squad to attack him first.

 

[Mad Ones]

Is that Scott's fault or Kyle and Yost's?

 

[Manic]

Within the context of the stories, it's Scott's fault. In real life, of course, it's KY's fault. They had the "brilliant" (see: stupid) idea to write a comic about a secret squad of killer X-Men under the familiar (and not entirely inappropriate, considering the original team) name of X-Force. This meant every X-writer was going to have to write a version of Cyclops they could believe was running a secret black ops group. This has led to stories by different writers with Cyclops portrayed at varying levels of *****e bagginess. Guggenheim's Cyclops in Young X-Men was overall decent, but also sneaky and manipulative enough to have an invisible spy he wasn't telling anyone about (Alisa/Cipher). Fraction's Cyclops in Uncanny is openly admitting to the mayor of San Francisco that the X-Men are less like a militia and more like an army. Brubaker's Cyclops during Messiah CompleX was brushing off Charles for his past immoral decisions while simultaneously trying to kill his own son.

Meanwhile, KY themselves are writing stories where Cyclops is aborting X-Force out of missions to rescue children so they can time travel to the future to help Cable, even though the very nature of time travel means they wouldn't have to abort the rescue mission at all.

 

[Manic]

Within the context of the stories, it's Scott's fault. In real life, of course, it's KY's fault. They had the "brilliant" (see: stupid) idea to write a comic about a secret squad of killer X-Men under the familiar (and not entirely inappropriate, considering the original team) name of X-Force. This meant every X-writer was going to have to write a version of Cyclops they could believe was running a secret black ops group. This has led to stories by different writers with Cyclops portrayed at varying levels of *****e bagginess. Guggenheim's Cyclops in Young X-Men was overall decent, but also sneaky and manipulative enough to have an invisible spy he wasn't telling anyone about (Alisa/Cipher). Fraction's Cyclops in Uncanny is openly admitting to the mayor of San Francisco that the X-Men are less like a militia and more like an army. Brubaker's Cyclops during Messiah CompleX was brushing off Charles for his past immoral decisions while simultaneously trying to kill his own son.

Meanwhile, KY themselves are writing stories where Cyclops is aborting X-Force out of missions to rescue children so they can time travel to the future to help Cable, even though the very nature of time travel means they wouldn't have to abort the rescue mission at all.

 

[squeekness]

Issue four of Forever was marginally better than the ones that preceeded them. I like how Saby is being more of his usual pesky self and I liked the end where Young Staorm and Gambit were reunited.

 

[UraniaChang]

Within the context of the stories, it's Scott's fault. In real life, of course, it's KY's fault. They had the "brilliant" (see: stupid) idea to write a comic about a secret squad of killer X-Men under the familiar (and not entirely inappropriate, considering the original team) name of X-Force. This meant every X-writer was going to have to write a version of Cyclops they could believe was running a secret black ops group. This has led to stories by different writers with Cyclops portrayed at varying levels of *****e bagginess. Guggenheim's Cyclops in Young X-Men was overall decent, but also sneaky and manipulative enough to have an invisible spy he wasn't telling anyone about (Alisa/Cipher). Fraction's Cyclops in Uncanny is openly admitting to the mayor of San Francisco that the X-Men are less like a militia and more like an army. Brubaker's Cyclops during Messiah CompleX was brushing off Charles for his past immoral decisions while simultaneously trying to kill his own son.

Meanwhile, KY themselves are writing stories where Cyclops is aborting X-Force out of missions to rescue children so they can time travel to the future to help Cable, even though the very nature of time travel means they wouldn't have to abort the rescue mission at all.

Everyone has their certain opinion about what a character should/would do under certain circumstances, they are always be a little subjective, as long as the writers are limited within practical methods as much as the practical part can go, I'll try to accept it. And cooperating fully with the government because there're a few district city governments back you up when they can be just as easily change sides does not sound promising in my mind; as for Avalanche, I suppose it's more like KY wants to get rid of as many small characters as bloody possible to sustain they hunger for violence, and comic characters just get stuck with the decision, because in other titles, Cyclops doesn't go around killing everything that goes the wrong way or does something even worse, mostly he's limited himself to the method "only when the enemies strike", like in Astonshing.

The part about the kids in X-Force, well, if you have means to reverse something which already happened and there's something you can't control happening in the future which affects the fate of a great deal of people you're concerned with, and you also have the means to get there to, at least, make some efforts, the logical choice will always be to secure the uncertainty first, and come back for changing what's been done later.

 

[Havok83]

Within the context of the stories, it's Scott's fault. In real life, of course, it's KY's fault. They had the "brilliant" (see: stupid) idea to write a comic about a secret squad of killer X-Men under the familiar (and not entirely inappropriate, considering the original team) name of X-Force. This meant every X-writer was going to have to write a version of Cyclops they could believe was running a secret black ops group. This has led to stories by different writers with Cyclops portrayed at varying levels of *****e bagginess. Guggenheim's Cyclops in Young X-Men was overall decent, but also sneaky and manipulative enough to have an invisible spy he wasn't telling anyone about (Alisa/Cipher). Fraction's Cyclops in Uncanny is openly admitting to the mayor of San Francisco that the X-Men are less like a militia and more like an army. Brubaker's Cyclops during Messiah CompleX was brushing off Charles for his past immoral decisions while simultaneously trying to kill his own son.

I dont think its simply KY's fault. This "new" Scott started with Morrison and has been followed through with subsequent writers, like Whedon, Fraction and of course Yost. X-force is just displaying a different side of this darker Scott. Scott pre- New X-men wouldnt have been involved with this team but Ive seen him do alot of things he normally wouldnt have since then. I dont think its too out of character for the person he has become today

Meanwhile, KY themselves are writing stories where Cyclops is aborting X-Force out of missions to rescue children so they can time travel to the future to help Cable, even though the very nature of time travel means they wouldn't have to abort the rescue mission at all.

well they did. The way the story was written, they only had a limited amount of time to use the time devices. It was either nor or never which resulted in them having to abort their current mission in order to use the devices. Its a moot point anyway, considering they traveled back into the past and ended saving those children anyway

 

[iamlegend]

Within the context of the stories, it's Scott's fault. In real life, of course, it's KY's fault. They had the "brilliant" (see: stupid) idea to write a comic about a secret squad of killer X-Men under the familiar (and not entirely inappropriate, considering the original team) name of X-Force. This meant every X-writer was going to have to write a version of Cyclops they could believe was running a secret black ops group. This has led to stories by different writers with Cyclops portrayed at varying levels of *****e bagginess. Guggenheim's Cyclops in Young X-Men was overall decent, but also sneaky and manipulative enough to have an invisible spy he wasn't telling anyone about (Alisa/Cipher). Fraction's Cyclops in Uncanny is openly admitting to the mayor of San Francisco that the X-Men are less like a militia and more like an army. Brubaker's Cyclops during Messiah CompleX was brushing off Charles for his past immoral decisions while simultaneously trying to kill his own son.

Meanwhile, KY themselves are writing stories where Cyclops is aborting X-Force out of missions to rescue children so they can time travel to the future to help Cable, even though the very nature of time travel means they wouldn't have to abort the rescue mission at all.

I'm sure K&Y have had some great ideas.

But sometime during the development stage they still revert back to "STAB STAB KILL KILL X-23!!!!11!!!@(#$*@#()"

I'd be willing to be the idea of a black ops squad was only conceived so they could have a book where they axed more people. It's what they love.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

I'm sure K&Y have had some great ideas.

But sometime during the development stage they still revert back to "STAB STAB KILL KILL X-23!!!!11!!!@(#$*@#()"

I'd be willing to be the idea of a black ops squad was only conceived so they could have a book where they axed more people. It's what they love.

This is the best post to sum up everything I hate about Kyle and Yost, yet some people eat that **** up, I face palm everytime I see someone say X-Force is the best X-Men book out right now. It's far from the best book and the talent behind it is seriously lacking.

What's odd however is if you break Yost away from Kyle, he's actually decent, his recent Storm mini was fun, and his story he's telling on DC'S Red Robin is interesting. It's like Kyle's the one that's all ''DURHHH DURHHH KILL THAT ONE!"

 

[Manic]

I usually vomit, then die a little inside.

 

[roach]

John Byrne expressed interest in penciling this book

 

[roach]

double post....drink flavorful Ovaltine

 

[iamlegend]

What's odd however is if you break Yost away from Kyle, he's actually decent, his recent Storm mini was fun, and his story he's telling on DC'S Red Robin is interesting. It's like Kyle's the one that's all ''DURHHH DURHHH KILL THAT ONE!"

If Marvel'd have an editor actually keep an eye on them, things might actually get better. They didn't do horribly as the lead story plotters to Wolverine and the X-Men (where they're obviously censored a bit for cartoon viewing purposes)... short of a the Wolvie worship, which was inevitable anyway what with the title of the show and all.

 

[UraniaChang]

So, what do the editors in Marvel actually do anyway?
They don't edit spelling mistakes, nor coloring ones,...

 

[javi1024]

So, what do the editors in Marvel actually do anyway?
They don't edit spelling mistakes, nor coloring ones,...

those actually should be parts of their job description. it sounds to me like keep all the writers in check and make sure all stories and characters keep in line with whatever direction they and the company have planned for a particular book.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Haha. That quote in your signature Javi. I can't help but feel that Necrosha won't even come close to the quality that Johns will put into Blackest Night.

 

[roach]

Haha. That quote in your signature Javi. I can't help but feel that Necrosha won't even come close to the quality that Johns will put into Blackest Night.

hmmmm a Blackest Night was a series that is well thought out and built on years of stories.

Necrosha is made by two guys whos claim to fame is their ability to kill characters without warning

 

[nikbackm]

hmmmm a Blackest Night was a series that is well thought out and built on years of stories.

Necrosha is made by two guys whos claim to fame is their ability to kill characters without warning

Geoff Johns is not exactly a stranger to killing and maiming either judging by his last few years of work.

 

[Jennifer Walters]

Geoff Johns is not exactly a stranger to killing and maiming either judging by his last few years of work.

Ah, but there's a difference you see, Johns has some resembelance of talent.

 

[iamlegend]

Ah, but there's a difference you see, Johns has some resembelance of talent.

Exactly.

It would have been better if K&Y admitted the real reason behind Necrosha... Marvel realized that, based on the mortality rate in K&Y comics, there would ZERO mutants left by 2012.

 

[roach]

Exactly.

It would have been better if K&Y admitted the real reason behind Necrosha... Marvel realized that, based on the mortality rate in K&Y comics, there would ZERO mutants left by 2012.

it was originally going to be called Blackerest Night

 

[javi1024]

Haha. That quote in your signature Javi. I can't help but feel that Necrosha won't even come close to the quality that Johns will put into Blackest Night.

i just put cuz it was funny as hell. the whole room busted out laughing and cheered. i have no preference to either story.