Comics One More Day Discussion Thread

[Kevin]

Good luck navigating the real world with that philosophy.

Nite, CB. :heart:

I surprisingly get through life ok, and night luv.

 

[Gabbra49]

I tend to notice that most of the fans who hate sins past were generally long term fans. They hate sins past because it was crap. Lets call it like we see it you know. If you are a long time reader like myself you realize that gwen was never remotely attracted to Norman. She sure as hell wasnt attracted to his animalistic energy as the book used for an excuse or somthing along those lines. JMS wrote as if he had a vendetta against gwen. JMS has always been a decent writer but between this and the Other and this new powers crap. Im afraid for the good writing he has done he will be remembered for quite possibly the worst couple spiderman arcs of all time. I would rather read the mess of the clone saga before i read the other or sins past again.

Sins Past was an utter mess. The story felt so forced which made the writing of each character even worse. Another problem was that with all the lame excuses to make this fit all they did was contradict what originally happened. All these years MJ knew gwen slept with norman and didnt tell peter. After how close they are we are expected to believe this. I was insulted after this story because marvel thinks so low of their readers to publish this crap. It was like aunt may being an actress all over again. I felt like a moron after buying this arc. I mean enough is enough. Everybody is so quick to say oh its not JMS fault he wanted them to be peters kids. JMS wrote the story he is as guilty as JQ for oking this crap. I was just following orders isnt a valid excuse any longer. JMS is a good writier just lately he has been dropping the ball. Im sorry their was just no valid excuse for Sins Past. I would hope marvel has the sence to recon this.

 

[Kevin]

And as I said before, I completely understand why you feel this way, I just personally don't feel that way myself.

 

[Themanofbat]

I never found Gwen boring, she was the greatest. She was pretty hardcore in my book- she did not let anyone insult Peter.

Gwen became boring to me after her father died, because she became rather two-dimensional "I hate Spider-Man!!! He killed my father", blah, blah, blah...

Other than the Kraven/Gog/Savage Land story, she was a lame duck waiting to be killed from ASM #90 onward...

Just MY two cents...

 

[mre]

Good luck navigating the real world with that philosophy.

Nite, CB. :heart:

What are you talking about there are a lot of liberals who make it in the world...? Telling him he is too liberal and "navigating the real world with that philosophy" doesn't make sense to me.

 

[mre]

I tend to notice that most of the fans who hate sins past were generally long term fans. They hate sins past because it was crap. Lets call it like we see it you know. If you are a long time reader like myself you realize that gwen was never remotely attracted to Norman. She sure as hell wasnt attracted to his animalistic energy as the book used for an excuse or somthing along those lines. JMS wrote as if he had a vendetta against gwen. JMS has always been a decent writer but between this and the Other and this new powers crap. Im afraid for the good writing he has done he will be remembered for quite possibly the worst couple spiderman arcs of all time. I would rather read the mess of the clone saga before i read the other or sins past again.

Sins Past was an utter mess. The story felt so forced which made the writing of each character even worse. Another problem was that with all the lame excuses to make this fit all they did was contradict what originally happened. All these years MJ knew gwen slept with norman and didnt tell peter. After how close they are we are expected to believe this. I was insulted after this story because marvel thinks so low of their readers to publish this crap. It was like aunt may being an actress all over again. I felt like a moron after buying this arc. I mean enough is enough. Everybody is so quick to say oh its not JMS fault he wanted them to be peters kids. JMS wrote the story he is as guilty as JQ for oking this crap. I was just following orders isnt a valid excuse any longer. JMS is a good writier just lately he has been dropping the ball. Im sorry their was just no valid excuse for Sins Past. I would hope marvel has the sence to recon this.

This is the best argument against Sins Past I have ever read. I'm tired of the "Gwen is a ****" response, as I don't necessarily think it makes her a **** to make a mistake such as that. Especially since we know she knew it was wrong and tried to tell Peter but died before she could.
But honestly how could Marvel retcon this story?

 

[Gabbra49]

Like i said im all about new direction. But the concept of "if its not broke dont fix it" comes into play here. Spiderman became popular without having organic webshooters, stingers, and night vision. Just seems to me that JMS is running out of ideas. I can understand, he has been on spiderman for so long. Just time to pass the torch. JMS is a good writer, im currently enjoying thor. He has had some good arcs along with some of the best characterization in a long time.

 

[Captivated]

People liked Sins Past? That's news right there.

As for the "****ty" thing...you and I have different versions of ****ty. I think a girl that MIGHT be 20 throwing herself at a 45 to 50 year old man who is the father of one of her close friends is about as "****ty" as it gets....especially when it's behind her boyfriend's back. Yeah. Pretty ****t, IMHO. Was it a mistake, sure....but it's still ****ty.

Yeah. Clearly what they had her doing was not only out of character, it was CREEPY and DISGUSTING behavior.

Now if someone finds that more "interesting" than disturbing... yeah... they probably have their own issues... like knowing right from wrong.

 

[Dangerous]

Again, no. People jumped into spider-man in very different ways at ddiffernt times. Movies, TV, comics. Peter is different to everyone, even if they were reading a comics in the samre era. You may see peter as the lovable guy who loves his aunt and and tries to make up for his uncle and protects his friends. I can see him as a loser who can't grow up, and a liar who puts everyone in danger.

Everyone, from the same point of view, see characters in differet ways for the smallest reasons sometimes, and they can feel that the characters are characterized perfectly fine. (Same Poimt of view, different train of mind.) And anyway, there is no "characterized incorrectly or correctly," just characterized the way you pefer and/or way you've always personally seen. (Again, people see peter in different ways)

Again I would disagree w/ the above.

Yes different readers of Spider-Man from different eras can interpret the character in a number of different ways, but that does not change the fact that he has a clearly defined personality and character.

There are cetain traits that define what kind of man he is, and certain lines he would not cross. For example- Peter is a loyal husband and fiercely protective of his family's safety.

For a writer to miss judge certain aspects of Peter's character or other supporting cast members characters, is for them to be written out of character. Gwen Stacy was written out of character in SP, and Spider-Man's decision to unmask in CW#2 was also out of character to name but a couple.

 

[Dangerous]

Im sorry their was just no valid excuse for Sins Past. I would hope marvel has the sence to recon this.

I hope it gets ret con'd too.
The current storyline OMD may even take care of this..

 

[Sloth7d]

This is the best argument against Sins Past I have ever read. I'm tired of the "Gwen is a ****" response, as I don't necessarily think it makes her a **** to make a mistake such as that. Especially since we know she knew it was wrong and tried to tell Peter but died before she could.
But honestly how could Marvel retcon this story?

The Gwen that slept with Norman was a Skrull, a Clone, the chameleon, a dream, ect. The real Gwen still dies though.

 

[KangConquers]

Sins Past was an utter mess. The story felt so forced which made the writing of each character even worse. Another problem was that with all the lame excuses to make this fit all they did was contradict what originally happened. All these years MJ knew gwen slept with norman and didnt tell peter. After how close they are we are expected to believe this. I was insulted after this story because marvel thinks so low of their readers to publish this crap. It was like aunt may being an actress all over again. I felt like a moron after buying this arc. I mean enough is enough. Everybody is so quick to say oh its not JMS fault he wanted them to be peters kids. JMS wrote the story he is as guilty as JQ for oking this crap. I was just following orders isnt a valid excuse any longer. JMS is a good writier just lately he has been dropping the ball. Im sorry their was just no valid excuse for Sins Past. I would hope marvel has the sence to recon this.

I swear comic book fan boys; most of them having never been in relationships, have such terribly high standards for, and borderline misogynistic views of women.

People are frail, fragile, and flawed. To say that MJ is a ***** because she kept this from Peter, or that Gwen is a **** is a horrendous thing to say about characters you all claim to care about. People have weakness. Just because they're not villains doesn't mean they don't **** up.

That being said, there was a lot of stupid retconning in Sin's Past to make the time period long enough for Gwen to have given birth. The easy way to retcon all of this is to say that The Jackal was already cloning Gwen BEFORE she died, and an early Gwen clone had escaped...stupid, yes? But is it better than Gwen being a ****e? Well if you care that much.

I hate Gwen fanboyism. She was a paper thin, two dimensional character. The only reason anyone cared about her death is Peter. We all love Peter, and hate seeing him suffer. But the Cult of Gwen is annoying.

 

[Gabbra49]

Wow you really are a narrow minded individual, who are you to single out comic book fans saying most have never been in a relationship. That is the most uneducated sentence i have ever heard first of all. Im sure you have facts to back up that lame opinion. So are you saying just because people like comics that means they have never had a serious relationship. Because to be honest that is just dumb.

Next i understand that everyone is flawed. You must not have read my post or maybe your not smart enough to understand. Either way i dont care. In fact i never mentioned gwen was a hoe. By sleeping with a person that does not make you a ****e. Any way every one of these characters have made mistakes and i still love the spiderman book regardless of whether they are good or bad. I was basically saying based on the evidence ( beginning spiderman issues with gwen, their was no attraction to Norman) I never said gwen was perfect or even hinted at that in my post. Im basically speaking the truth, that based on the comics. It was liek two different gwen stacy's. I have no idea of this "gwen fan boyish" you speak of. Im a fan of her character does that automatically qualify me as a fan boy. I like peter parker and Mj and the rest of the cast. I fail to see your logic here. You really have no arguement, your post is just a lame attempt at name calling.

 

[freemadison]

I swear comic book fan boys; most of them having never been in relationships, have such terribly high standards for, and borderline misogynistic views of women.

People are frail, fragile, and flawed. To say that MJ is a ***** because she kept this from Peter, or that Gwen is a **** is a horrendous thing to say about characters you all claim to care about. People have weakness. Just because they're not villains doesn't mean they don't **** up.

That being said, there was a lot of stupid retconning in Sin's Past to make the time period long enough for Gwen to have given birth. The easy way to retcon all of this is to say that The Jackal was already cloning Gwen BEFORE she died, and an early Gwen clone had escaped...stupid, yes? But is it better than Gwen being a ****e? Well if you care that much.

I hate Gwen fanboyism. She was a paper thin, two dimensional character. The only reason anyone cared about her death is Peter. We all love Peter, and hate seeing him suffer. But the Cult of Gwen is annoying.

good post.

 

[mre]

Wow you really are a narrow minded individual, who are you to single out comic book fans saying most have never been in a relationship. That is the most uneducated sentence i have ever heard first of all. Im sure you have facts to back up that lame opinion. So are you saying just because people like comics that means they have never had a serious relationship. Because to be honest that is just dumb.

Next i understand that everyone is flawed. You must not have read my post or maybe your not smart enough to understand. Either way i dont care. In fact i never mentioned gwen was a hoe. By sleeping with a person that does not make you a ****e. Any way every one of these characters have made mistakes and i still love the spiderman book regardless of whether they are good or bad. I was basically saying based on the evidence ( beginning spiderman issues with gwen, their was no attraction to Norman) I never said gwen was perfect or even hinted at that in my post. Im basically speaking the truth, that based on the comics. It was liek two different gwen stacy's. I have no idea of this "gwen fan boyish" you speak of. Im a fan of her character does that automatically qualify me as a fan boy. I like peter parker and Mj and the rest of the cast. I fail to see your logic here. You really have no arguement, your post is just a lame attempt at name calling.

Regardless I still agree with him on the fact that a lot of comic book fan boys have incredibly high standards for Gwen.

 

[Abaddon]

what exactly were these incredibly high standards?

 

[Gabbra49]

I must agree i also would like to know these high standards. Because i dont think it asks to much of the writers to be consistent. How would you feel if the next arc was about MJ had secret kids with Harry. Thats not consistent with her character either. So these imaginary standards you speak of are just long time fans asking for the stories to make sence. Im not saying the story should be predictable but they have to be consistent.

 

[Kevin]

You know, MJ having kids with anyway is all too possible. (Even though it's not in her character, I never saw her as a mother figure. And I don't read or care about spider-girl) Anyway, anything can happen with MJ, she was gone from amazing for YEARS way back in the day.

 

[VICTORVONDOOMX]

Gwen became boring to me after her father died, because she became rather two-dimensional "I hate Spider-Man!!! He killed my father", blah, blah, blah...

Other than the Kraven/Gog/Savage Land story, she was a lame duck waiting to be killed from ASM #90 onward...

Just MY two cents...

!

 

[SpideyInATree]

I swear comic book fan boys; most of them having never been in relationships, have such terribly high standards for, and borderline misogynistic views of women.

People are frail, fragile, and flawed. To say that MJ is a ***** because she kept this from Peter, or that Gwen is a **** is a horrendous thing to say about characters you all claim to care about. People have weakness. Just because they're not villains doesn't mean they don't **** up.

That being said, there was a lot of stupid retconning in Sin's Past to make the time period long enough for Gwen to have given birth. The easy way to retcon all of this is to say that The Jackal was already cloning Gwen BEFORE she died, and an early Gwen clone had escaped...stupid, yes? But is it better than Gwen being a ****e? Well if you care that much.

I hate Gwen fanboyism. She was a paper thin, two dimensional character. The only reason anyone cared about her death is Peter. We all love Peter, and hate seeing him suffer. But the Cult of Gwen is annoying.

And Kang conquers...



I don't so much agree with you on the Gwen "fanboyism" part, and it's not necessarily ALL comic book fanboys are clueless on relationships...but you can usually tell...most guys are in their early teens still and have MUCH to learn. But that aside I do agree she BECAME a two dimensional paper thin character. She didn't really start out that way. When she was first introduced when Pete went to college it was really captivating and interesting. She seemed to be that super popular hot girl that every guy wanted and she happened to be really smart too...and it's like BAM it's perfect for Pete. But, I believe it was themanofbat, mentioned about how Gwen's character really got stale after her father's death. Which, in I'm sure most peoples opinions, led to her demise to the Green Goblin.

I have to admit that I'm in the camp that Gwen shouldn't have been killed and stayed around with Pete. MJ would have always been that perfect girl for the romance triangle. Jeph Loeb played it up a little in Spider-Man: Blue which is a fantastic read and REALLY better defines the characters during that time period.

But, I'm rambling now, as usual. Yay, Gwen. Boo, Gwen Stacy twins!

 

[Dangerous]

Re: Gwen going flat after he father's death- that might have been the case but it ain't exactly a suprise or un justified. After that point Gwen had changed and she hated Spider-Man.

 

[Themanofbat]

!

You still love me...

Re: Gwen going flat after he father's death- that might have been the case but it ain't exactly a suprise or un justified. After that point Gwen had changed and she hated Spider-Man.

And a young Gerry Conway couldn't do anything with her because she had become so two-dimensional, and though the idea of killing Gwen came from Romita Sr., Conway wrote the story moreso because in MY opinion, he couldn't develop her character anymore because she was stuck in "I hate Spider-Man because he killed my father" mode for 2 1/2 years, so it was easier to just kill her off.

Again, just my two cents...

 

[Themanofbat]

Just had this discussion in the Marvel threads, I'm posting it hear for the Spidey fans that don't venture out that way...

Swing Shift IS in continuity, so we know Aunt May will live and that Spidey's identity will be a secret once again.

Can you provide a link that states that it is in continuity?

Certainly....

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=98778&highlight=swing+shift

Read the end of the second paragraph from Marvel's Press release...

Spider-Man 3 won't be the only new Spider-Man tale swinging into the collective consciousness on the weekend of May 5, 2007.

For the sixth annual Free Comic Book Day, Marvel's rolling out a brand new Spider-Man tale by the blockbuster creative team of Dan Slott (She-Hulk) and Phil Jimenez (New X-Men). Much like 2006's Runaways/X-Men FCBD offering, the story in AMAZING SPIDER-MAN: SWING SHIFT is steeped in continuity, yet accessible and enjoyable by all Spider-Man fans.

actually... we don't know when "swingshift" takes place... it could have A) taken place in the motel or B) even taken place before civil war

Obviously, since we've never seen Jackpot before, it's not set in the past, and it wasn't set during CW or while they were holed up in the hotel, because Spidey's identity appears secret again. In fact, when he makes his appearance, there seems to be a certain "buzz" about how the web-slinger's back, possibly indicating he's been "absent" in the minds of all New Yorkers.

Could be a clue right there concerning OMD....

That's interesting. I wonder just when the story took place, though. It could've been set at any point in Pete's career, actually. Just because it was the first time we Jackpot, doesn't mean it's the first time she's been out and about in her costume. Also, if it is set after the events of OMD, it would seem that there's been a mindwipe. I doubt Marvel would've tipped their hat to that way back in May. I could be wrong, but I just have a feeling there's a lot mre then meets the eye.

Well, that news article actually came out in January, so a LOT of people don't even think this is in continuity. And I'm not sure if OMD was even being discussed to the public at that time, because we hadn't even been put through BiB, as ASM #538 came out that month (the issue where May gets shot), and ASM #539 came out in April (3 months later).

And I doubt the story took place in the past, because if you reread Swing Shift, it comes across like Spidey's been away and the Web-Slinger's back in action, and I don't recall any stories like THAT in the past. In fact, just looking at the book as I type, Spidey screams "He's Back" as he swings into action, he comments about how the "bright & shiny heroes are so well organized" and super-crime is at an all time low. And then there's the page where JJJ is complaining about how Spider-Man has given up his webs (like he always wanted him to), but now that he's been gone for three weeks, his papers aren't selling like they used to with Spidey on the front page. And I believe it takes place in current continuity because there's the page where villains hang out at "The Bar with No Name" and watch Spidey on TV. When you read it, it just seems like it's in the near future

And while Marvel MAY have tipped their hat, obviously it wasn't much of a tip if nobody has really made the connection... until now. (Actually, I'd remembered it all along). And I'd like to think that we all know May's going to live after OMD, it's just what happens exactly that puts Peter's life back on the upswing that's the big mystery.

Cheers,

TMoB

 

[Green Goblin 1964]

So when's Part 2 coming out?


sorry I've been slow on these things lately...

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

So when's Part 2 coming out?


sorry I've been slow on these things lately...

It's in October, but I forgot what day.