Discussion in 'Misc. Films' started by Thread Manager, Mar 8, 2013.
This is a continuation thread, the old thread is [split]337770[/split]
Wanna talk about who was really miscast? James Franco.
Unbelievably miscast and should not have been the one to carry this film.
As I tried to edit - one definite is that Scarecrow was less than three days old. I'm pretty sure it was less than 24 hours, but I might be wrong with that.
Who would you have preferred? RDJ?
This is where I would take some creative liberties, like you mentioned. I don't think anyone would be complaining if things like that are changed for a movie. As long as it doesn't harm the story, and I think it actually adds more to the story if the conflict with the wicked witch has been going on for so long. Plus yeah, it makes sense to age the characters.
With Scarecrow, if indeed Oz did make him - as I foretold - to be a guide for the arriver he wouldn't set it out there two years or even one year in advance. There are a number of things that could go wrong in that time span. The witch could capture him. Someone else could have found him. In order to be found by Dorothy if set by Oz he would need to be set there not too soon and not too late either but right at the precise time.
With Tin Man, ideally three to five years, so that the loss is still fresh on his heart. Any more than that and he'll seem more Clint Eastwood than a guy suffering from depression.
I really like Franco, but I can't help but think RDJ would have done a better job. Still haven't seen the movie, but it's a feeling.
The way I see it is the sisters cannot directly interfere with each other's spells. Since I envision Glinda to be the one to give Scarecrow life with her magic(Oz would make the body, and "program" him, so to speak), Theodora wouldn't be able to take the Scarecrow or destroy him. So instead, she'd send the crows to stay there and pick the straw from his head and body. Also taunting him and making him feel worthless and stupid.
Something like scarecrow being there for years adds to the impact that he's been put down by these crows for all of that time. He's all but forgotten his purpose and doesn't feel he could survive out there because of what these crows are constantly saying to him. Then Dorothy comes after that time and puts the straw back into scarecrow, scares off the crows, and gets him back on his feet, literally and figuratively.
Also, I honestly don't see anyone else going into that cornfield for that time. And if they were, they wouldn't be concerned with some old scarecrow. In Oz, it's really in the middle of nowhere if you think about it.
I like Franco too. He's a good looking dude with youthful charisma, but I think RDJ would have the natural bravado and gravest to pull it off.
As a matter of fact, how would Theodora even know that this Scarecrow was created by Oz to be Dorothy's guide? It's not like he would make that public news. The crows don't even have to be connected to Theodora if they go that route. That could be why Oz makes her guide a scarecrow in the first place. No one would expect some scarecrow in a cornfield to be significant. The crows are just a natural occurrence because it's in a cornfield.
I still don't like it and it doesn't make sense to me. But to each their own. As said, it doesn't make any strategic sense to have him there for a year if they are going with the proposed guide to Dorothy route. Any number of things could happen, it just doesn't make strategic sense to me. And explaining the time span, as simple as what Baum had, the time for the Scarecrow lasts a lot longer than it does for others. A day to him feels like years.
The best plan is...
Oz is I would say 35 years old right now.
The second film takes place 8 years later. He's 43 years old. This also serves as the introduction to Nick (35 years old). During this time the witches return. There are rumors of seeing the Wizard out and about, but no one knows if they're true or not. No one knows if he is a man anymore or a giant woman or a dragon. What is his form? He's become a mythological being. By the end of the film, the wicked witch over powers Evenora making her do her bidding. Nick becomes the Tin Man. And Oz fully goes into hiding becoming a full recluse which starts to eat away at him. I would like to see the Tin Man have less time elapse, but -- seeing as it were --
The third film takes place 7 years in the future. Oz is now 50 years old. HISTORY: All of the years of being a recluse has gotten into his mind and all the years of exile has gotten into the Tin Man. The world's become a much darker place after the witch overthrew Evanora. Everyone is afraid of her. She spends all her time in a dark castle terrorizing the people. She has also tried to attack the Emerald City but could not find Oz anywhere (he's behind a safe door or some area she can't trespass into or knows about). Oz and Glinda hear of another prophecy that someone the wizard has a personal connection with will return, they work hard to find out more. This is their final chance to finally redeem themselves. They hear about it a couple of days before and it's a race against the clock to lay out a plan. The first step involves having a guide for Dorothy. They set about making the Scarecrow. Oz thinks it will work and with Glinda's help it comes to life. Dorothy has always heard stories about a man her aunt once knew who disappeared in a storm never to be heard from again. FILM TAKES PLACE 24 HOURS LATER: Dorothy sees another storm coming, it is the same storm that was there years before! Her aunt is frazzled, but Dorothy is more curious and she gets swept up into it literaly. The house crashes carrying Dorothy onto Evanora who was sent by Theodora to attack Glinda. Despite the wicked witch being angry at her sister, she is seriously mad that her sister's been killed and finds it a matter of personal duty to revenge her death. Meanwhile Oz discovers that Dorothy's aunt and care-taker is Annie (his love interest in the first film)! Over the course of the classic story, we have Oz and Theodora playing a game of "chess" and some of their actions and history explain the side missions from the book as things our new heroes come across.
I wanna watch this movie!
Okay, I understand you don't like the scarecrow idea. Personally, I think it would only add to the story and it makes perfect sense. Oz created the scarecrow a while back because 1, he faced the Witch years ago and after he fails to kill her, that should be when Glinda knows the prophecy has changed and another is destined to kill the witch. They wouldn't know the exact time and date this girl would be coming, but they had a general timespan, so Oz would create this Scarecrow ahead of time to be sure he was there in time for Dorothy. Then Oz had to the scarecrow out there before the Witch's forces were out trying to find him in full-force. Of course he wouldn't be able to do something like that so close to Dorothy's arrival. That's when things are at their worst for the land of Oz under Theodora's reign. Really makes perfect sense, but of course, it's just what I think.
As said, I see one year as being way too long because there a number of things that could happen. A couple of months would be the longest I'd give it. Because it's not just the crows it's - what if somebody else finds it, for example. Just one year adds in way too many unknowns to me, whereas just a couple of months tops would be a risk but an understandable risk.
Like I mentioned earlier, why would anyone be concerned with some old scarecrow in a cornfield? That should be the whole point of Oz making Dorothy's guide a scarecrow in the first place. It's not suspicious and obvious, and no one is tempted to bother it except for the crows of course. There are no unknowns to this, really. It makes perfect sense.
Still feel there are too many unknowns in what could happen to it over that long of a time span. I don't see him taking a risk like that. A gut feeling just tells me it feels off and not in character.
But it doesn't make sense to me if you don't have an actual reason why you don't think it would make sense, because I've already explained why there shouldn't be any unknowns. My reasoning makes sense.
I guess that's just my problem, though. It's just that gut feelings are not always right.
Just saw the movie.
Okay, I can see why they initially wanted to cast Downey Jr. As Oz. Franco isn't horrible, but Downey probably would have pulled off the somewhat old con bit of the character better, while Franco does a great job with showing Oz as a man who wants to be more than he currently is. In the end, I think Franco interpreted the character as a slightly more heroic and immature character, which is a cool change-up from the likely more predictable route Downey probably would have chosen.
And whoever wrote the script must have watched a lot of Star Wars; the evil witches basically cover the entire fall of Darth Vader in about three scenes. Mila Kunis plays Theodora as at first wide eyed and naïve, but once she turns bad, she's kind of like an evil Witch on crack, which works well, she's much more intimidating when she's screeching and trying to broil someone alive. Evanora is basically female Palpatine, and there's a wonderful bit where she actually seems a little freaked out by her much more boisterously bloodthirsty sister.
I have to concur with everyone that James Franco seems a bit out of spots here. This role seems like it was custom tailored to Downey, and with all the rumors as to the fall out, between Raimi and Downey Jr., who knows.
Michelle Williams and Rachel Weisz, seem most at home in this film. Mila Kunis did a good job as Theodora, but when playing the Wicked Witch of the West, it just pales in comparison to the classic film.
The worst part of it for me is, while I'm glad Raimi and Danny Elfman made nice after the Spider-man 2 fiasco, but Elfman's music is horrible and out of place. Even when Elfman isn't working with Tim Burton, he scores every piece as if it's a Tim Burton film. He just replaced Hans Zimmer on my list of most repetitive annoying composers.
The film is also a disappointment in that the first half of the movie sets up on something that the second half never lives up to. The film should have ended after the reveal of the "Wizard of Oz", but instead ends in a Gandalf vs. Saruman style battle between Williams and Weisz.
Oz is not a bad film. In fact it has it's moments. Finley will certainly be a fan favorite for years. And there are really some great moments with China Girl that are heart warming. The problem is the film just doesn't live up to the potential of what it could have been, and is certainly not the prequel to the classic film that most would want.
Watching this film, makes you realize how special the Wizard of Oz really was, and why 100 years from now people will still be watching it. You can't help but notice how deeply this film fails to even come close to the classic movie.
lol, female Palpatine. That's some funny imagery.
That somebody could take the Scarecrow, that if it was alive all that time it could call out to somebody else who was walking by (this seems beyond easy to do, and saying "it could just be activated to yell out to Dorothy" makes everything seem more plotted out and less having a life of its own - too many of those happening and things start to feel mechanical). You say my gut is wrong, yet I'm saying your gut is wrong. And now we know why there are multiple adaptations of the same source material that turn out sometimes radically different.
I mean, yeah. For sure. I don't think there's any doubt that he wouldn't have done a better job. The role almost seems tailor-made for RDJ.
However, that's not to say that no one else could do it. I'm sure we could think of dozens of actors who would have delivered solid performances (and who fit the role), but that's not our job anyway. It's up to the filmmakers and casting directors to get it right, and for whatever reason, they dropped the ball bigtime on this one. My gut tells me the studio interfered with the casting of Franco and Junis, but who knows. The whole second half of the movie screams "WE'RE TRYING TO START A FRANCHISE HERE".
I'm not relying on my gut for this, really. It's just common sense. We know that the Scarecrow does not call out to someone during his time there, and although that is a worry in my your mind, no one watching it would be asking that question. No one is going to be concerned with a scarecrow, that's just being realistic. And the other point is that it's a scarecrow in the middle of nowhere.
I feel that I've presented too many reasons why a longer timespan than a few days for the Scarecrow being in that cornfield works, while you have only said you don't like the idea because of a gut feeling, instead of something I can make sense of.
I understand adaptions are different, but you make it seem as if this way does not make sense, or makes less sense than it would if he were created only a few days before Dorothy's arrival. That's just not the case.
Thought Franco was awesome. Seemed to work well with Ramis style of humor and gags. Had me laughing most the time and also bought into more of the sentimental stuff. Especially with the intro and scenes with China Girl.