Comics Pete in Black with Gwen....

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

No. By no means would I condone a "magical mindwipe" of the marriage. That's about as lame as plot devices can get.

But, I think the reaction among fans, particularly here, has been utterly ridiculous. Gwen and Harry coming back to life? Continuity being rewound all the way back to Amazing Fantasy #15? These are completely baseless predictions (to put it nicely), and people actually take them seriously! People are already crying for Quesada's blood over reviving Gwen; making childish comments like "Jokesada", "Joe Q is on drugs", and "my childhood is being raped."

It's complete and utter irrationality, and I can't help but laugh at it.

I never said that Jokesada was on drugs... I said that he said that INSTEAD of doing drugs he became a Spidey fan because of the Death of Gwen Stacy story arc ... but his desicions (Spidey-wise) have proven that he isn't a fan... (maybe he should've spent his life doing drugs...)I lost respect for the guy when he okayed the bad what if? stories as part of main continuity... (Gwen and Norman having sex, Spiderine-man killing and eating heads, the Robinization of Peter Parker, the "Hi I'm Peter Parker, please kill my family in order to get at me... BTW let's erase my marriage with MJ through magic so I can be single and watch porn...." All of this proves that regarding Spidey the guy's a joke...

He doesn't give a damn about continuity, but the fans do...
He doesn't give a damn about what the fans think, but as a fan I have the right to complain when the company delivers crap... I will not buy crap and I haven't since Sins Past began... (Heck, I even had an argument with the guy at the shop I used to buy comics... the guy LOVES Quesada... He even has a picture of him and Jokesada. but that's got nothing to do with this...) I WANT to read Spidey stories, that make sense, where the continuity is followed, where characters don't act completely Out of Character for the sake of a story that will be retconned in a few months...

But credit is given where credit is due. Joe Quesada has done good things for OTHER TITLES... But since We're in the SPIDER-MAN forum... That doesn't matter...
But I can see why you find this funny... I find it funny as well... Here I am complaining about a fictional character, and a fat man who's got a better salary that I do... but that's the best thing about America... freedom of speech... I complain, you laugh... everybody wins... except the Spidey fans because they're getting Jokesada's crap...

But it seems that I've made an impact on you... so have a few laughs...

 

[Dangerous]

The guy at your comic shop sounds like a d1ck.

 

[spider greg]

Bringing Norman back at the end IS my point. If they were to make Ben be Spidey on East coast and Peter on west Coast then Norman would NOT have to have been brought back to life as the easy scapecoat, who kills Ben in the end.

It could have remained a mystery, but that last issue was (in a perverted way of course) for the fans, so Ben could be "Smoked" as it were.

I guess it depends on what you like, the idea of 2 Spider-men out in the world doesn't appeal to me. It takes away even more of the "everyman" that was pretty much stripped away already through the 90s, no money problems, no school problems, no everyman problems just superhero problems.
Also, there were better options on who would be the Clone saga mastermind, the original Hobgoblin was coming back in "Hobgoblin lives" he would've been a great choice, and the return of a great villain.
I'm not too big on the way they're (even though it's been written fairly well) "fixing" things in OMD but I hope the end result will be worth it. I don't think they're doing a complete reboot though.

 

[shinlyle]

No. By no means would I condone a "magical mindwipe" of the marriage. That's about as lame as plot devices can get.

But, I think the reaction among fans, particularly here, has been utterly ridiculous. Gwen and Harry coming back to life? Continuity being rewound all the way back to Amazing Fantasy #15? These are completely baseless predictions (to put it nicely), and people actually take them seriously! People are already crying for Quesada's blood over reviving Gwen; making childish comments like "Jokesada", "Joe Q is on drugs", and "my childhood is being raped."

It's complete and utter irrationality, and I can't help but laugh at it.

Well, 6 years ago, no one thought that Gwen and Norman would get it on and have twin love-children off panel, either. We also never though that we'd live to see Spider-man grow foot-long boneclaws out of his forearms and stab a guy with them and then proceed to eat his head and soul. We also never though we'd see Peter Parker take off his mask in front of the whole world because a spoiled rich boy asked him to do so.

After all of these things, we're all willing to believe that any other such stupidity is possible as well. Harry and Gwen coming back....Uncle Ben coming back....Aunt May and Mary Jane becoming lovers and joining the LPGA....anythign is possible at Nu-Marvel, man.

Also, yeah, we're in total agreement about them marriage. They magically retcon it away with some lame tease about how "Peter and MJ will find each other again", and I'm out. We've seen the courtship/wedding already...no need to undo it to redo it.

 

[kguillou]

Originally Posted by dan1
Bringing Norman back at the end IS my point. If they were to make Ben be Spidey on East coast and Peter on west Coast then Norman would NOT have to have been brought back to life as the easy scapecoat, who kills Ben in the end.

It could have remained a mystery, but that last issue was (in a perverted way of course) for the fans, so Ben could be "Smoked" as it were

.


Even though the now classic Spider-Man #75 was a complete masterpiece in my opinion, i think the clone saga should've ended with Amazing #400 when Ben Reilly decided to leave and start his own life. They didnt have to kill off Ben, he was sucha good character. They definitly should've kept him around, start his own life in california or something. It would've been PERFECT if all of a sudden Ben decided to return to New York now, with all the craziness going on, to help Peter with his troubles ( civil war, the unmasking). I think now Peter needs Ben more than ever. I could picture the conversation:

Peter: Ben i dont know what to do, i revealed my identity to the whole world.

Ben: You did WHAT?? (smacks Peter). Gimme that mask. Whatever happened to what uncle ben told us, you know " with great power comes great responsibilty??"

Peter: oops.

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

The guy at your comic shop sounds like a d1ck.

Yes he is... I dared show my face around "The Other" and he was praising it like a godsend... and mocking those who disliked it... (Mostly people with brains...) That's when I stopped going there... and most importantly he stopped selling SOTA SF figs...

 

[shinlyle]

Yes he is... I dared show my face around "The Other" and he was praising it like a godsend... and mocking those who disliked it... (Mostly people with brains...) That's when I stopped going there... and most importantly he stopped selling SOTA SF figs...

Well...if he was praising "The Other" then he's an idiot. Period. It was so bad that even JMS, the guy who had the idea, wouldn't go back to it. That's bad. Even Joe Q admitted that it was a poorly recieved storyline. So...if everyone thinks something is bad or wrong except for the guy who runs your LCs, then what does that make him...?

WRONG...that's what.t:

 

[Donald Thomas]

I own both 121/122 of "Amazing," and it will suck to the upmost degree if JQ reverses 40 years of Spidey history. It will also suck if Gwen is brought back, because from a collector's view, the value of certain comics will depreciate.

Aloha,
As someone who has all but the first 3 Amazing Spider-Man to have the complete collection, I'm always interested in what affects the value of a comic.There was great speculation that the Spider-Man movies would affect the value of the comics. In the VF to NM range probably, but in the G-F range, not much. What so many are trying to do, is keep the 43 years of Spidey in tact-THAT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.You have got to start looking at Spidey in terms of Silver Age,Bronze Age and Modern Age. The things that many people(including myself) refer to as Spider-Man continuity, is based upon Silver and Bronze Age Spider-Man.Those comics are etched in stone. Sins Past has NO BEARING upon the collectible value of Spidey 121 and 122.The Silver and the Bronze Age are etched in Stone.It's the Modern Age Spider-Man that you have to look at with a discriminating eye.Not everything that has happened in the Modern Age Spider-Man can be looked upon as Canon.If it dosen't fit-forget about it as far as continuity is concerned. It's a Spidey story but outside of the lines of established history.Doc Ock Year One,Kingpin both outside of the lines of established history therefore,just a story to me.
Spidey rules

 

[Dangerous]

Yes he is... I dared show my face around "The Other" and he was praising it like a godsend... and mocking those who disliked it... (Mostly people with brains...) That's when I stopped going there... and most importantly he stopped selling SOTA SF figs...

Got my 12 inch Sagat a while back, that is sum badass plastic.

 

[Spidey_87]

Aloha,
As someone who has all but the first 3 Amazing Spider-Man to have the complete collection, I'm always interested in what affects the value of a comic.There was great speculation that the Spider-Man movies would affect the value of the comics. In the VF to NM range probably, but in the G-F range, not much. What so many are trying to do, is keep the 43 years of Spidey in tact-THAT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN.You have got to start looking at Spidey in terms of Silver Age,Bronze Age and Modern Age. The things that many people(including myself) refer to as Spider-Man continuity, is based upon Silver and Bronze Age Spider-Man.Those comics are etched in stone. Sins Past has NO BEARING upon the collectible value of Spidey 121 and 122.The Silver and the Bronze Age are etched in Stone.It's the Modern Age Spider-Man that you have to look at with a discriminating eye.Not everything that has happened in the Modern Age Spider-Man can be looked upon as Canon.If it dosen't fit-forget about it as far as continuity is concerned. It's a Spidey story but outside of the lines of established history.Doc Ock Year One,Kingpin both outside of the lines of established history therefore,just a story to me.
Spidey rules

Well, ok. I often look at certain comics buyers guide to see what the value of some of my comics are. For instance, I own the Green Goblin's first two appearances in ASM 14 and 17. When the first movie came out, this price, especially in ASM 14 and ASM 122, rose. The same thing can be said about some of my Venom/symbiote comics around the time of Spider-Man 3's release.

I also consider somethings not to be canon. Those Spider-Man one shots/mini's are a great example of supplemental material to Spidey's long history. I also do not own most of the Spidey comics from 2000-2005, as I just started reading the newer Spidey comics again last Fall.

On a side note, that Kingpin mini from 2003 is really great. Probably one of my favorites next to the Hobgoblin Lives mini from 1998. Those stories were incredible.

 

[deathfromabove]

i havent read much spidey in a long time but having just read this through this thread i am reminded why.

is nothing sacred?

 

[Gabbra49]

IF you want an honest answer no nothing is sacred. The writers whenever they write a horrible story hide behind the change is good for the character excuse. But they never answer to why that change was necessary or how it has helped the character. Most of the past few years have been completely horrible stories or changes all for shock value. Peter parker hasnt been the same core character for a long time. JMS has done some huge damages to this character but even he is not all to blame it runs deeper than that. The character has become a whiney brat instead of a man.

 

[farmernudie]

Pete is working hard at turning AUnt May into Gollum....after he gives up his soul to stretch out her life even more....she gonna get all hunched over with string hair and will be seen in her panels saying "My Prescious" over and over while gawking at Pete.

Sadly, even that would surrpise me.

LOL....just was thinking....i used to love the original WHAT THE-? comic series when it was orginally quite funny. They should do a mock Spider-Man story making fun of spider stinger claws, gwen making out with Norman (ew...that bad image still scars my mind!!!!!! )....and they could also do a farce of The Other and of course OMD, and random costume changes that are unexplained from story to story...and then draw aunt may as a Gollum like lady...that'd rock better than the real thing right now, sadly...lol...

Gee...i'm giving marvel some GREAT ideas...they awta pay me!! t:

 

[shinlyle]

i havent read much spidey in a long time but having just read this through this thread i am reminded why.

is nothing sacred?

Gwen Stacy and Norman Osborn had kids. Mary Jane knew all along. Peter stabbed a guy with his claws and ate his head and soul. Peter unmasked in front of the world.

Yeah, I'd say it's all up for grabs, now.

 

[shogunrua]

Gwen Stacy and Norman Osborn had kids. Mary Jane knew all along. Peter stabbed a guy with his claws and ate his head and soul. Peter unmasked in front of the world.

Yeah, I'd say it's all up for grabs, now.

wow...presented that way...looks like something that could be expected from a Z-horror movie (and with a writer on drugs, listening to Britney Spears all day long and sniffing Big Macs)

 

[shinlyle]

wow...presented that way...looks like something that could be expected from a Z-horror movie (and with a writer on drugs, listening to Britney Spears all day long and sniffing Big Macs)

Well, when you put it out there how it REALLY is, and you take out all the supporters saying "It was well-written", that's what you're left with. Crap.

 

[MattXG]

If they just end the marriage but leave Gwen dead. OMD fails to me.


If they end the marriage and Gwen comes back. OMD would be a success to me.

Bring GWEN BACK! Everybody chant with me! BRING GWEN BACK! BRING GWEN BACK!

 

[Doc_OCK_4MUGEN]

Dude, be careful what you wish for... Gwen might come back as a supervillain... and we discover that the REAL Gwen never died... Norman did die and the Norman running around is a clone... The real mastermind behind the Clonse Saga was Gwendy all along... Sins past... Never happened it was all part of an elaborate plan to drive Petey insane (Because Gwen became insane after discovering the truth about Peter... add a small frame where Peter's with Gwen and she noticed the Spidey suit beneath his shirt... simple) MJ was forced to tell the Osborn Gwen Story, otherwise Kristy and Aunt Anna would've been killed by Sweet Gwendy.
BTW Harry is not dead either... He's Gwen's sidekick Acid Goblin...

 

[dan1]

Dude, be careful what you wish for... Gwen might come back as a supervillain... and we discover that the REAL Gwen never died... Norman did die and the Norman running around is a clone... The real mastermind behind the Clonse Saga was Gwendy all along... Sins past... Never happened it was all part of an elaborate plan to drive Petey insane (Because Gwen became insane after discovering the truth about Peter... add a small frame where Peter's with Gwen and she noticed the Spidey suit beneath his shirt... simple) MJ was forced to tell the Osborn Gwen Story, otherwise Kristy and Aunt Anna would've been killed by Sweet Gwendy.
BTW Harry is not dead either... He's Gwen's sidekick Acid Goblin...

Hey Doc, have you been following JQ around the last 12 months?

 

[Norman Osborn]

If they just end the marriage but leave Gwen dead. OMD fails to me.


If they end the marriage and Gwen comes back. OMD would be a success to me.

Bring GWEN BACK! Everybody chant with me! BRING GWEN BACK! BRING GWEN BACK!

I'm not trying to be an ass here.....I just really want to know.....why in bloody hell would you want to bring back Gwen?....hasn't ASM 121-122 been *****slapped enough?....I mean if it's for the sole purpose of creating a love triangle why not just use Debra Whitman or Jessica Drew...or someone else whose existence wouldn't piss on a comic classic?

As much as I don't want the marriage to end, I'll give ASM x 3 A very short leash post-marriage ending......but if I see Gwen Stacy anywhere near a current continuity Spidey title, I'll not only drop it on its head again..(and that includes even if the marriage doesn't end....Gwen Stacy alive is a dealbreaker on its own)....but to answer a question TMOB posed several weeks back....I won't even frequent the Spidey boards here.....

 

[MattXG]

I'm not trying to be an ass here.....I just really want to know.....why in bloody hell would you want to bring back Gwen?....hasn't ASM 121-122 been *****slapped enough?....I mean if it's for the sole purpose of creating a love triangle why not just use Debra Whitman or Jessica Drew...or someone else whose existence wouldn't piss on a comic classic?

As much as I don't want the marriage to end, I'll give ASM x 3 A very short leash post-marriage ending......but if I see Gwen Stacy anywhere near a current continuity Spidey title, I'll not only drop it on its head again..(and that includes even if the marriage doesn't end....Gwen Stacy alive is a dealbreaker on its own)....but to answer a question TMOB posed several weeks back....I won't even frequent the Spidey boards here.....

It won't ruin anything.

Her death was what 35 years ago or something? This isn't even the same Spider-Man anymore. This book is limping along. I, for one, would love to see a major shake up.

This could be fun. I mean, we've been put through Gwen sleeping with Norm and had having his kids and Spider-Man did stab a guy and ate his head and soul-- not to mention he died and then came out of his own body....Oh and did I mention the Spider-God?

What the f*** ya know? That's what happens when you tell 40 years worth of stories without resetting the damn thing.

 

[Norman Osborn]

It won't ruin anything.

Her death was what 35 years ago or something? This isn't even the same Spider-Man anymore. This book is limping along. I, for one, would love to see a major shake up.

This could be fun. I mean, we've been put through Gwen sleeping with Norm and had having his kids and Spider-Man did stab a guy and ate his head and soul-- not to mention he died and then came out of his own body....Oh and did I mention the Spider-God?

What the f*** ya know? That's what happens when you tell 40 years worth of stories without resetting the damn thing.

The bolded area I agree with you...the rest..well we'll have to simply agree to disagree.....I mean you're right, Norman did sleep with Gwen, Spidey did stab a guy and eat his head, Spidey did find out he's one of many spider-men under the great spider-god, spidey did die and came back to life...etc etc etc....I just disagree that 3 years of Abysmmal Spider-man writing (not including the Hydra arc which was classic!!) opens the character up to whatever **** Marvel feels like flinging on the wall.....

....yes it's been over 30 years since Gwen died in the comics....but the effect of Gwen's death is as relevant today in Spidey's character as it was way bach when Pete told MJ to leave, that she couldn't understand straights like him and Gwen.......her death is a huge component of what Spider-man is...it changes everything......

....but in all fairness to you, you actually do bring the best counter argument to the table in regards to bringing Gwen back...it aint Spider-man anyway..so really who gives a $%^&?

 

[dan1]

The bolded area I agree with you...the rest..well we'll have to simply agree to disagree.....I mean you're right, Norman did sleep with Gwen, Spidey did stab a guy and eat his head, Spidey did find out he's one of many spider-men under the great spider-god, spidey did die and came back to life...etc etc etc....I just disagree that 3 years of Abysmmal Spider-man writing (not including the Hydra arc which was classic!!) opens the character up to whatever **** Marvel feels like flinging on the wall.....

....yes it's been over 30 years since Gwen died in the comics....but the effect of Gwen's death is as relevant today in Spidey's character as it was way bach when Pete told MJ to leave, that she couldn't understand straights like him and Gwen.......her death is a huge component of what Spider-man is...it changes everything......

....but in all fairness to you, you actually do bring the best counter argument to the table in regards to bringing Gwen back...it aint Spider-man anyway..so really who gives a $%^&?

In the immortal words at the end of "Office Space," F***k*ing A man....F***k*ing A.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I'm not trying to be an ass here.....I just really want to know.....why in bloody hell would you want to bring back Gwen?....hasn't ASM 121-122 been *****slapped enough?....I mean if it's for the sole purpose of creating a love triangle why not just use Debra Whitman or Jessica Drew...or someone else whose existence wouldn't piss on a comic classic?

As much as I don't want the marriage to end, I'll give ASM x 3 A very short leash post-marriage ending......but if I see Gwen Stacy anywhere near a current continuity Spidey title, I'll not only drop it on its head again..(and that includes even if the marriage doesn't end....Gwen Stacy alive is a dealbreaker on its own)....but to answer a question TMOB posed several weeks back....I won't even frequent the Spidey boards here.....

Isnt it possible that it's Gwen's daughter, not Gwen, swinging around with black suit Spidey in that pic...?

 

[Norman Osborn]

Isnt it possible that it's Gwen's daughter, not Gwen, swinging around with black suit Spidey in that pic...?

It's absolutely possible Cap.....I'm not saying Gwen;s coming back....I'm saying I'd be royally pissed "if" she did...I'm just speculating on the rampant rumours....hell I'm one of the few people who still honestly believe that all of this, including ending the marriage, is a ruse, a red herring...nothing more...setting myself up for a big fall?...maybe