Petition for Fox to Sell Rights to Marvel

[CyclopsWasRight]

Um... almost 22K in 2 days.

The average movie ticket in the US costs $8.12.

IF 22k of those signatures represents a non-ticket buying member of the American public that equals $178,640.

The movie opened with $26.2 million so those people (if they all didn't pay to see the movie) cost 20th Century Fox 0.68% ticket sales.

Meanwhile, Fox loses...

A whole $60 mil? Hot damn, I'm sure they'd be calling in the bankruptcy lawyers, if they didnt earn $31.87 Billion revenue in 2014 and $6.84 billion in Q3 2015.

But yeah - we don't matter.

'we' didn't cost them $60 million, They did.

Rigghhtt.

You're free to think Disney will trade X-Men TV and Merchandising rights for Fantastic Four movie rights. I can't see them doing it.

Or perhaps you don't think they'll ask for those rights, which is fine. To me it seems the most likely thing they'd want in exchange for the F4 rights.

Or perhaps you don't think Fox will hold onto the rights if they don't that deal, which would seem to go against what people think about their 'rights grab' nature.

 

[Dr Tactics]

Except that's not playing things both ways. I already told you that fans don't matter when it comes to business decisions (specifically IP rights/licenses mangement). If I had said that fans don't matter in terms of the movie's moneymaking potential, while simultaneously saying that fans were the reason this movie failed, then you'd have a point. There's a very obvious distinction there.

Also, I never said that it's asinine to think that Fox is arrogant. You're free to think whatever you want, and frankly, I agree that Fox is an arrogant company that tends to be very stubborn when it comes to making movies (Barakapool in Wolverine vs. more comic-booky Deadpool in the trailers). I said that it's asinine to compare apples to oranges, and then come to a conclusion that Fox is arrogant. Again, another very obvious distinction.

The whole point is the irony with the fans: some will complain about Fox's arrogance and somehow conveniently ignore that they're also being arrogant with their petition.

So since the fans don't matter but they're not making money from the IP cause of the fans then the arrogance (or Stupidity) is holding on to a IP that's not making any money. I thought the rule of business is to make a profit? Where is the IP to license the Fantastic Four making money?

And how is holding on to a IP causing $60 Mil loss/write off not arrogant?

EDIT: It seems to me that while those laugh at the petition if they count $20 per signature it may hammer home the symptoms of their failure and hammer home the futility of holding on to rights that they can't make any money off of??? IDK?

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

The average movie ticket in the US costs $8.12.

IF 22k of those signatures represents a non-ticket buying member of the American public that equals $178,640.

The movie opened with $26.2 million so those people (if they all didn't pay to see the movie) cost 20th Centery Fox 0.68% of ticket sales.

You said a half million signatures would make them notice. It's now pushing 23K sigs and growing. After only 2 days.

A whole $60 mil? Hot damn, I'm sure they'd be calling in the bankruptcy lawyers, if they didnt earn $31.87 Billion revenue in 2014 and $6.84 billion in Q3 2015.

You know what? You're right. $60 million is pocket change. I'm sure Fox is very happy with that figure. In fact, all studios should strive to produce movies that lose at least $60 million.

'we' didn't cost them $60 million, They did.

I know. I'm just being facetious because of the folks saying that the film failed because of the fans.

 

[Dr Tactics]

What they don't realize is that there isn't much distance between the fans and the GA STILLL!!! If the Fans aren't interested then the GA doesn't care. If the fans aren't praising thru word of mouth and not bring the kids, Girlfriends or friends then that 22K doubles and triples... Now do the math

 

[henzINNIT]

I know first hand that online petitions go nowhere, but it stands as a somewhat quantifiable measure of fans' desires. They don't matter to a studio as much as $$$, but if this gains enough attention it can't hurt. Fox may not care that fans want FF back at Marvel, but they will care to know just how much ill-will surrounds the property in their hands.

Signing this. Don't see why you wouldn't make the minimal effort to do the same. I'm curious to see how many hits it will get.

 

[Dr Tactics]

Funny thing is Fox doesn't need a petition to know this is a dead investment and reversion or a deal should explored rather than invest in another sequel just to keep the rights again.. A sequel will most defiantly will do worse 2017 or 2020. Fox just doesn't have the know how to resurrect this franchise.. Period..

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

I think the funny thing (that people who want to analyze this to death are missing) is that this is a petition asking a studio not to make a movie.

When has that ever happened before?

There are plenty of times when fans petition film studios or TV networks to make a sequel or new season of their favorite show, but here we have tens of thousands of people begging a movie studio not to make film they've said they plan to make.

That's unprecedented and extremely amusing.

 

[First Avenger]

You guys are all wrong,those greedy bastards at Disney are responsible of all the bad reception this movie is getting. Fox cares so much about F4 and their fans.

 

[Zarex]

You're free to think Disney will trade X-Men TV and Merchandising rights for Fantastic Four movie rights. I can't see them doing it.

Or perhaps you don't think they'll ask for those rights, which is fine. To me it seems the most likely thing they'd want in exchange for the F4 rights.

Or perhaps you don't think Fox will hold onto the rights if they don't that deal, which would seem to go against what people think about their 'rights grab' nature.

Who is saying that Disney would ever hand over X-Men merchandising rights to FOX? That wasn't going to happen before FOX destroyed their own bargaining position last weekend, so it certainly isn't going to happen now. FOX will get approval for a show or two and consider themselves fortunate.

And you can remove the quote marks around rights grab. That has been confirmed.

 

[Eddie]

When crew members start telling a major trade the film was a rights grab, perhaps you should start using the term without quotes to try to demean fans that are upset about the rights grab.

 

[InJustice]

Whether or not it actually makes a difference, how is a petition arrogant? People making known how they feel is arrogant? You lost me there.

There's a difference between making things be heard, and being downright unrealistic. The petition isn't so much making their voice heard, as it is forcing Fox to make a choice for their own "benefit." The arrogance is thinking that their voice has the ability to make IP management decisions for Fox, and that a simple petition would snap its fingers and get it done. Read the comments and the petition's structure.

So since the fans don't matter but they're not making money from the IP cause of the fans then the arrogance (or Stupidity) is holding on to a IP that's not making any money. I thought the rule of business is to make a profit? Where is the IP to license the Fantastic Four making money?

And how is holding on to a IP causing $60 Mil loss/write off not arrogant?

EDIT: It seems to me that while those laugh at the petition if they count $20 per signature it may hammer home the symptoms of their failure and hammer home the futility of holding on to rights that they can't make any money off of??? IDK?

How is it arrogant to hold onto the FF rights? They are well within their means to do so. The rule for business is to make money, but they're not going to have fans make decisions for them. They're not obligated to care about nor listen to what fans think of their IP management.

 

[Drz]

Change.org isn't meant for people demanding corporations to make changes. It's meant for human rights, education, gay rights, global warming/environment, laws, etc.

But it's being used for things like this. <_>

 

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

change.org isn't meant for people demanding corporations to make changes. It's meant for human rights, education, gay rights, global warming/environment, laws, etc.

But it's being used for things like this. <_>

...k.

 

[Eddie]

"I think you're all silly people that are wasting your time. Why won't you listen to me when I've made multiple posts on the subject?"


People can do what they want. I'm personally voting with my wallet. The petition's funny, though. Even The Hollywood Reporter linked to it.

 

[Dr Tactics]

IDK Injustice what makes a company consider to reinvest in a now known losing investment? Seems illogical but hey. None of these Fox defenders have any stake so who care if keeping the rights away from Marvel not only losing BO #s with thier sequel but no Tv show either. Lol!!! Keep it goin!!!

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

There's a difference between making things be heard, and being downright unrealistic. The petition isn't so much making their voice heard, as it is forcing Fox to make a choice for their own "benefit." The arrogance is thinking that their voice has the ability to make IP management decisions for Fox, and that a simple petition would snap its fingers and get it done. Read the comments and the petition's structure.

Such a bizarre statement. Fox is a producer of a product (i.e. movies) for consumers to enjoy. Of course these consumers would seek their own "benefit" (i.e. the pleasure of being entertained). In exchange for that "benefit" they offer monetary compensation (i.e. movie ticket purchases). If the consumer sees no "benefit" (i.e. being entertained) then they are under no obligation to purchase said product.

Here we have a case where said consumers are extremely unhappy with said product and as such they are free to voice their complaints through an avenue by which they may or may not be heard. Fox can choose to listen or not listen but you cannot deny them that right - no matter how you may personally feel about their viewpoint - to make themselves heard. I still don't see how that is arrogant nor do I see how they are "forcing" Fox to do anything. Fox can do what they want. They just have to live with the repercussions of the choices they make. Like losing 60 million dollars.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

Change.org isn't meant for people demanding corporations to make changes. It's meant for human rights, education, gay rights, global warming/environment, laws, etc.

But it's being used for things like this. <_>

Change.org is meant for making money plain and simple.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomioge...t-change-org-makes-an-impact-and-makes-money/

"The service is free, and with a name like Change.org the company even sounds like a not-for-profit. But it’s not. It was founded in 2007 and spent the better part of two years flailing around for a profitable business model until Rattray hit upon a clever approach. Change.org charges groups for the privilege of sponsoring petitions that are matched to users who have similar interests. For example, when a person signs a petition about education and clicks “submit,” a box pops up and shows five sponsored petitions on education to also sign. If a user leaves a box checked that says “Keep me updated on this campaign and others,” the sponsor can then send e-mails directly to that person. It’s not clear from the check box that your e-mail address is being sold to a not-for-profit. Rattray says an imminent site redesign will make the company’s business model more transparent. Change.org has 300 paying clients, including Sierra Club, Credo Wireless and Amnesty International, and its revenue so far this year is $15 million."

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Meanwhile, the petition is heading towards 24K signatures as we speak.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Funny thing is Fox doesn't need a petition to know this is a dead investment and reversion or a deal should explored rather than invest in another sequel just to keep the rights again.. A sequel will most defiantly will do worse 2017 or 2020. Fox just doesn't have the know how to resurrect this franchise.. Period..

What if in theory, not a likelihood but just a theory they hired a seasoned director, planned ahead, stuck to the vision and script and didn't change the movie half way, had a lighter tone with more humour and better CGI, gave the cast comic-accurate costumes, altered The Thing to give him brows and he wore pants, had an acclaimed Writer do the screenplay and marketed the movie much better.

So basically if they took the exact steps Marvel would take (except for the MCU). Would it still do worse?

Don't answer on whether that's likely as that's not the question. Answer as if it was 2017 or 2020 and they did all of that.

 

[Willie Lumpkin]

What if in theory, not a likelihood but just a theory they hired a seasoned director, planned ahead, stuck to the vision and script and didn't change the movie half way, had a lighter tone with more humour and better CGI, gave the cast comic-accurate costumes, altered The Thing to give him brows and he wore pants, had an acclaimed Writer do the screenplay and marketed the movie much better.

So basically if they took the exact steps Marvel would take (except for the MCU). Would it still do worse?

Don't answer on whether that's likely as that's not the question. Answer as if it was 2017 or 2020 and they did all of that.

They had to chance to do that this time and they blew it. Nobody's going to give them a chance after this epic failure on top of two run-of-the mill failures.

 

[InJustice]

Such a bizarre statement. Fox is a producer of a product (i.e. movies) for consumers to enjoy. Of course these consumers would seek their own "benefit" (i.e. the pleasure of being entertained). In exchange for that "benefit" they offer monetary compensation (i.e. movie ticket purchases). If the consumer sees no "benefit" (i.e. being entertained) then they are under no obligation to purchase said product.

Here we have a case where said consumers are extremely unhappy with said product and as such they are free to voice their complaints through an avenue by which they may or may not be heard. Fox can choose to listen or not listen but you cannot deny them that right - no matter how you may personally feel about their viewpoint - to make themselves heard. I still don't see how that is arrogant nor do I see how they are "forcing" Fox to do anything. Fox can do what they want. They just have to live with the repercussions of the choices they make. Like losing 60 million dollars.

Except they themselves are already making themselves heard through voting with their wallets. The sheer facts that the movie made only $27mil in opening weekend, and Fox facing losses of at least $60mil are reasons enough to say that the people have made their voices heard. Thus, it makes absolutely no sense to make a petition. Furthermore, when you read the petition, you see people saying "give FF back to Marvel!", "Make Fox sell the rights to "Fantastic Four" back to Marvel Studios!", "Because screw Fant4stic and screw a sequel. Give the rights back to Marvel, Fox!" These people are absorbed by their self-importance to the point that they think they can influence a business to make a decision. That's the definition of arrogance.

What's more bizarre is justifying this superfluous and redundant petition as people making their voices heard, when the box office is pretty much making the GA and fans' voices heard.

IDK Injustice what makes a company consider to reinvest in a now known losing investment? Seems illogical but hey. None of these Fox defenders have any stake so who care if keeping the rights away from Marvel not only losing BO #s with thier sequel but no Tv show either. Lol!!! Keep it goin!!!

I never said they're going to reinvest in the property, I said they're going to keep it right now and make decisions regardless of what the fans say. They have seven years now to determine what they're going to do with it. Whether they're going to make a movie or not remains to be seen.

 

[VictorDomashev]

I never said they're going to reinvest in the property, I said they're going to keep it right now and make decisions regardless of what the fans say. They have seven years now to determine what they're going to do with it. Whether they're going to make a movie or not remains to be seen.

They have no choice but to make a movie. Starring & titled the Fantastic Four. Or they lose the rights. It is pretty simple

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

They had to chance to do that this time and they blew it. Nobody's going to give them a chance after this epic failure on top of two run-of-the mill failures.

Heck, I'm not sure they would show up to an MCU Fantastic Four. I don't think a lot of posters realize the degree that this film has destroyed this brand. Marvel would be taking a gigantic risk by making another Fantastic Four movie. It isn't as simple as getting it right next time and then people will show up. The audience has been chased away.

 

[Ragnaroknroll]

Except they themselves are already making themselves heard through voting with their wallets. The sheer facts that the movie made only $27mil in opening weekend, and Fox facing losses of at least $60mil are reasons enough to say that the people have made their voices heard. Thus, it makes absolutely no sense to make a petition. Furthermore, when you read the petition, you see people saying "give FF back to Marvel!", "Make Fox sell the rights to "Fantastic Four" back to Marvel Studios!", "Because screw Fant4stic and screw a sequel. Give the rights back to Marvel, Fox!" These people are absorbed by their self-importance to the point that they think they can influence a business to make a decision. That's the definition of arrogance.

What's more bizarre is justifying this superfluous and redundant petition as people making their voices heard, when the box office is pretty much making the GA and fans' voices heard.

While voting with one's wallet is infinitely better as you point out, the petition as I view it is merely a way to vent - even if it is an exercise in futility. (And as Cyke mentioned earlier Fox couldn't care two whits about losing $60 million apparently so what's wrong with one more vehicle?)

Ascribing self-importance to these actions I think is misplaced. A lot of these people are just angry. That's all it is. And that's their right to be.

 

[CyclopsWasRight]

Furthermore, when you read the petition, you see people saying "give FF back to Marvel!", "Make Fox sell the rights to "Fantastic Four" back to Marvel Studios!", "Because screw Fant4stic and screw a sequel. Give the rights back to Marvel, Fox!" These people are absorbed by their self-importance to the point that they think they can influence a business to make a decision. That's the definition of arrogance.

QFT

I never said they're going to reinvest in the property, I said they're going to keep it right now and make decisions regardless of what the fans say. They have seven years now to determine what they're going to do with it. Whether they're going to make a movie or not remains to be seen.

You make a good point.

They could in theory wait 2 years before deciding to approach Marvel with a deal or wait 3 or 4 years to decide to invest in a sequel or a reboot.

The reality is there's no knowing what will happen or how long before anything will happen. The only known factor is the rights will revert in five years if none of those happen in the meantime.

So the failure of this movie may change nothing with the rights, nobody knows.