The Dark Knight Plot holes in the bank heist

[blightsbiohazar]

Ok so there's several problems with the bank robbery prologue scene that I noticed after repeated viewings. I'm going to point out a few of them in chronological order.
1. When the car pulled up, the Joker must not have been wearing makeup. The goons driving would have seen him with Joker makeup or ever with scars. Even if it was for a second.
2. His hair started out brown, not green, how'd that happen?
3. Chuckles got shot by the bank manager, how had Joker planned on him dying? The goons were all supposed to bump each other off.
4. Grumpy was supposed to kill the safe guy.
5. Was the bus driver supposed to kill grumpy or did he just happen to be standing on the right spot? If Joker expected that to work as part of the plan that's downright ******ed.
6. How was Grumpy supposed to die? If Joker kills the bus driver was he just supposed to die by chance? Remember Joker tried to get the bank manager to shoot him "he's out right?"
7. "He can't resist showing us his face" when was that picture taken? Joker was in the lobby with the bank manager and the citizens the whole time. Even when grumpy was loading the vault he couldn't have posed for the camera like that.
8. The bus. How on earth can it pull out of the building and fit right in line? That's highly contrived.

Don't get me wrong I love the scene, but the plan isn't nearly as amazing or fullproof as we are lead to believe.

 

[infamous]

the bus driver was always suppost to kill grumpy, letting him take the shot from the manager was just dumb luck, the bus driver had no idea, he was the only one who didnt know about the kill the other guy off scheme, he killed someone off by not even knowing, joker positioned grumpy infront of the door and u can tell joker positions himself away from the door on purpose. the rest is movie magic. chill

 

[redfirebird2008]

Ok so there's several problems with the bank robbery prologue scene that I noticed after repeated viewings. I'm going to point out a few of them in chronological order.
1. When the car pulled up, the Joker must not have been wearing makeup. The goons driving would have seen him with Joker makeup or ever with scars. Even if it was for a second.
2. His hair started out brown, not green, how'd that happen?
3. Chuckles got shot by the bank manager, how had Joker planned on him dying? The goons were all supposed to bump each other off.
4. Grumpy was supposed to kill the safe guy.
5. Was the bus driver supposed to kill grumpy or did he just happen to be standing on the right spot? If Joker expected that to work as part of the plan that's downright ******ed.
6. How was Grumpy supposed to die? If Joker kills the bus driver was he just supposed to die by chance? Remember Joker tried to get the bank manager to shoot him "he's out right?"
7. "He can't resist showing us his face" when was that picture taken? Joker was in the lobby with the bank manager and the citizens the whole time. Even when grumpy was loading the vault he couldn't have posed for the camera like that.
8. The bus. How on earth can it pull out of the building and fit right in line? That's highly contrived.

Don't get me wrong I love the scene, but the plan isn't nearly as amazing or fullproof as we are lead to believe.

The only one I'll address is #8. Have you ever heard of bus routes? They would go through the same area at approximately the same time every day. If he knew there was a long line of buses that went by that bank every day at a fairly precise time, he could pull it off.

 

[ih8nyy]

Nolan is like Bruce Dickinson. You don't question him.

 

[DiFabio08]

Great points Blight. This scene is full of plot holes.

1. When the car pulled up, the Joker must not have been wearing makeup. The goons driving would have seen him with Joker makeup or ever with scars. Even if it was for a second.

The only explanation I can come up with is that they didn't see him. First time viewers weren't suppose to know that Bozo was the Joker.

2. His hair started out brown, not green, how'd that happen?

Yep, another plot hole. The scene was more geared towards the Joker's big surprise reveal than it was the actual story.

7. "He can't resist showing us his face" when was that picture taken? Joker was in the lobby with the bank manager and the citizens the whole time. Even when grumpy was loading the vault he couldn't have posed for the camera like that.

Another good point. Unless of course that camera pic is from one of the other banks the Joker stole from. It might have been evidence from a few heists before the one we see in the film.

Great points. The whole bus thing, even at the hospital is just too far fetched. People would have seen him getting away ("Hey look at that bus there! It just went through a wall and is going the opposite way!"). And there is no way Joker could have foreseen the Bank Manager's interference.

 

[BestGirl]

Ok so there's several problems with the bank robbery prologue scene that I noticed after repeated viewings. I'm going to point out a few of them in chronological order.
1. When the car pulled up, the Joker must not have been wearing makeup. The goons driving would have seen him with Joker makeup or ever with scars. Even if it was for a second.
2. His hair started out brown, not green, how'd that happen?
3. Chuckles got shot by the bank manager, how had Joker planned on him dying? The goons were all supposed to bump each other off.
4. Grumpy was supposed to kill the safe guy.
5. Was the bus driver supposed to kill grumpy or did he just happen to be standing on the right spot? If Joker expected that to work as part of the plan that's downright ******ed.
6. How was Grumpy supposed to die? If Joker kills the bus driver was he just supposed to die by chance? Remember Joker tried to get the bank manager to shoot him "he's out right?"
7. "He can't resist showing us his face" when was that picture taken? Joker was in the lobby with the bank manager and the citizens the whole time. Even when grumpy was loading the vault he couldn't have posed for the camera like that.
8. The bus. How on earth can it pull out of the building and fit right in line? That's highly contrived.

Don't get me wrong I love the scene, but the plan isn't nearly as amazing or fullproof as we are lead to believe.

1. I believe the Joker wasn't wearing makeup in front of the bank. I think he put it on later when he was supposed to be watching the hostages.

2. Some spy shots of Heath showed him in front of the bank with green streaks in the front of his brown hair, IIRC. He could've greened his hair further while he was putting on his makeup.

3. Chuckles was probably supposed to kill Grumpy, then he would've been hit by the bus.

4. Yes.

5. The bus driver killing Grumpy was part of the plan. The Joker probably told Grumpy to dump the bags near where the bus would come in and then hoped he would stand near the money. Notice he maneuvered Grumpy into place just before the bus hit.

6. If Grumpy hadn't been hit by the bus either the Joker or the bus driver would've killed him. I think the Joker tried to get the bank manager to kill Grumpy because he thought it would be amusing.

7. Like I said, I think the Joker was applying his makeup and maybe more dye while he was supposed to watch the hostages. They weren't going anywhere, right? Maybe he then offered to help get some money, stepped into the vault, took off his mask, looked into the camera, and then replaced his mask.

8. The bus forced its way into line but probably peeled off quickly and went down a side street. Yes it's contrived but comic book villains tend to be able to pull these kinds of schemes off.

 

[Anjow1060]

It's very conceivable that the Joker planned to just tag along at the end of the bus route but saw an opening in the middle of the trucks.

If you're old enough to drive, as I know some of you aren't, crazy drivers tend to dart out into traffic if theres 3 feet of room to do it in. Furthermore, buses and trucks leave more space between each other in case they have to stop short because they have a lot of weight and momentum behind them they can still push forward long after the breaks are hit.

And even beyond that, I remember hearing somewhere that Nolan, or the script or something stated that the other busses where a different set of Joker goons. I mean, we never know how he got the bus in the first place so it's concievable that he got more than one.

So if you don't buy the idea that the others were his goons, then see it as a opportune moment to dart out into traffic. It's really not that big a "plot hole" as you make it out to be.

- Jow

 

[The Joker]

1. I believe the Joker wasn't wearing makeup in front of the bank. I think he put it on later when he was supposed to be watching the hostages.

Oh come on! t:

He'd have to be pretty darn fast to apply all that make up that quickly. Besides we saw him just walking around aimlessly watching the hostages with his mask still on while the other two guys were in the vault.

 

[DiFabio08]

Exactly. And if that were the case the Bank Manager would not have been surprised. Everyone would have known that that wasn't an ordinary thug if The Joker applied while Grumpy was in the vault.

 

[PyroChamber]

As far as the whole not wearing make-up thing goes, a few seconds before the van pulled up at the corner he did put the mask on and everyone in the van had their masks on already; so either they couldn't see that good because of the masks or he saw them coming and put the mask before they got a good look at him.

Either that or they never knew what the Joker looked like anyway, because the way they were talking about him my guess would have been that they never saw him in person. Case in point...

HAPPY: So why do they call him the Joker?

DOPEY: I heard he wears make-up.

HAPPY: Make-up?

 

[SuperZer0]

8. The bus. How on earth can it pull out of the building and fit right in line? That's highly contrived.

This can go the other way around too. How did the bus crash into the building by going full-speed in a straight line on Van Buren street? Assuming that is what it takes realistically for a bus to cause such damage. Also, how did the bus crash into the building and not having a single scratch?

 

[usmcrice0311]

the only thing about that scene that bothered me is the make up. at certain points you can see through the eyes of the mask that Heath isn't wearing make up.

 

[Lightning257]

This can go the other way around too. How did the bus crash into the building by going full-speed in a straight line on Van Buren street? Assuming that is what it takes realistically for a bus to cause such damage. Also, how did the bus crash into the building and not having a single scratch?

Actually, it did have damage, to the right side. At least one light is broken.

 

[BestGirl]

Oh come on! t:

He'd have to be pretty darn fast to apply all that make up that quickly. Besides we saw him just walking around aimlessly watching the hostages with his mask still on while the other two guys were in the vault.

Gathering all that money would take a lot of time, and we didn't see everything that transpired during that time.

Exactly. And if that were the case the Bank Manager would not have been surprised. Everyone would have known that that wasn't an ordinary thug if The Joker applied while Grumpy was in the vault.

I figured he ducked into a bathroom to apply it. Like I said, the hostages weren't going anywhere. t:

 

[Lightning257]

And even beyond that, I remember hearing somewhere that Nolan, or the script or something stated that the other busses where a different set of Joker goons. I mean, we never know how he got the bus in the first place so it's concievable that he got more than one.


- Jow

Sure we do! Jake Karnassian! t:

 

[PyroChamber]

the only thing about that scene that bothered me is the make up. at certain points you can see through the eyes of the mask that Heath isn't wearing make up.

Well, being that he was going to wear the mask the whole time they didn't need to have him in make-up and probably didn't think about if his eyes would be seen through the mask.

 

[BestGirl]

This can go the other way around too. How did the bus crash into the building by going full-speed in a straight line on Van Buren street? Assuming that is what it takes realistically for a bus to cause such damage.

Maybe the other buses really were driven by Joker goons and they allowed the driver to back into the wall. OTOH, aggressive drivers can probably do almost anything they want. Others will back off just to keep from being killed.

 

[Kieser1]

8. The bus. How on earth can it pull out of the building and fit right in line? That's highly contrived.

This is the only flaw in TDK imo. The plot relies too heavily on chance, and PERFECT timing. So many of the situations that happen in the dark knight are possible, just the chances of them ever actually working in reality are extremely slim.

I mean, how is the Joker able to perfectly time everything so that he is able to position the goon so that he gets hit by the bus, and also able to pull the bus out between the other buses, despite the fact that traffic makes the whole scenario just about unpredictable? It’s all luck, and this is a fictional movie, so you have to let that kind of stuff roll. At the end of the day, the movie is slightly fantasy, which people tend to forget.

 

[Hole Shot]

OK, before this discussion goes any further...

I'm failing to see how the issues mentioned above create an issue with the plot of The Dark Knight, hence creating a plot hole.

 

[The Spider-Bat]

Gathering all that money would take a lot of time, and we didn't see everything that transpired during that time.



I figured he ducked into a bathroom to apply it. Like I said, the hostages weren't going anywhere. t:

Anyone who's watched a decent heist movie (or the History Chanel equivalent) knows that you're in an out as fast as possible. Hence why the cops were just arriving as the bus was leaving.

Also, yea, the makeup thing annoys me somewhat, but not that bad. As for the opening shot of him standing in the street, yea, it doesn't make much sense, but its one hell of a shot.

 

[Kieser1]

OK, before this discussion goes any further...

Can anyone tell me the difference between a plot hole and continuity error?

A plot whole is a section of the story(plot) that isn't shown in the atcuall movie, leaving out details that can cause confusion.
Example - After Joker gives Harvey the gun in the hosptial, the next scene is Joker washing his hands, leaving no indication of what happened to Dent. This causes the confusion on what exactly happened between the time Joker washes his hands, and when he gave him the gun.

As for a continuity error... I'll leave it to someone else to explain lol

 

[Lightning257]

Anyone who's watched a decent heist movie (or the History Chanel equivalent) knows that you're in an out as fast as possible. Hence why the cops were just arriving as the bus was leaving.

That's another thing...just HOW were the cops notified? The silent alarm was going to "a private number", not 911.

 

[The Spider-Bat]

That's another thing...just HOW were the cops notified? The silent alarm was going to "a private number", not 911.

I'm sure someone must have heard the gunshots and or/seen the giant school bus crashing through a wall

 

[Hole Shot]

A plot whole is a section of the story(plot) that isn't shown in the atcuall movie, leaving out details that can cause confusion.

Yes.

After Joker gives Harvey the gun in the hosptial, the next scene is Joker washing his hands, leaving no indication of what happened to Dent. This causes the confusion on what exactly happened between the time Joker washes his hands, and when he gave him the gun.

No. Yes if there really is no clear understanding of what happened and remains unexplained, but Harvey flipped the coin with the gun pointing to Joker's head, we're left to assume the coin landed on live seeing that Joker is walking away. What became of Harvey is also answered later in the movie.



Anyways, the term Plot Hole gets tossed around quite a bit on this message board and it's often not used correctly. A continuity error is a goof, not having a seen in the bank heist that matches appropriately with the photo Gordon has in the vault isn't a plot hole.

That's another thing...just HOW were the cops notified? The silent alarm was going to "a private number", not 911.

William Fitchner's 12 gauge probably caught someone's attention outside the bank.

 

[Kieser1]

You know, why hasn't an official "TDK Plot Holes Thread" been made? That subject matter can be discussed endlessly.