Possible movement on Black Widow spin-off?

[Protar]

There are looong runs of Captain America to mine for material if "behind the scenes of the Avengers' is a profitable pitch for a trilogy. Black Widow has much less material to use because she's an Iron Man villain turned sometimes Avenger, not a character who carried a monthly title for decades.
I don't know who she'd even fight by herself. You can't give her Avengers villains, because if one Avenger with no powers can beat them up they obviously pose no threat to the team.
There's enough material about her to make one interesting movie, especially if it's a prequel where her relationship with Hawkeye is born.

Well sure, there's loads of Cap material left to mine, but Evans is leaving after A4. I'm not sure why we're still having the debate the marvel cannot make obscure characters with less lore work well. They've proven they can do that. I'm sure there are plenty of street tier villains Widow could face off against. Her old KGB handlers to start with. Or the return of Zemo perhaps? A villain does not have to be an A-lister to be made compelling. Ten years ago, the idea of Killmonger as the main villain of a superhero film would very much be seen as scraping the bottom of the barrel. And yet, he was great.

 

[MasterCat]

Well sure, there's loads of Cap material left to mine, but Evans is leaving after A4. I'm not sure why we're still having the debate the marvel cannot make obscure characters with less lore work well. They've proven they can do that. I'm sure there are plenty of street tier villains Widow could face off against. Her old KGB handlers to start with. Or the return of Zemo perhaps? A villain does not have to be an A-lister to be made compelling. Ten years ago, the idea of Killmonger as the main villain of a superhero film would very much be seen as scraping the bottom of the barrel. And yet, he was great.

Dude... As obscure as he is IRL, Zemo is almost an A-lister in-universe. He put together the Masters of Evil that temporarily defeated the Avengers at their mansion, with feats like beating the snot out of Hercules, and then he created the Thunderbolts. He shouldn't job to Black Widow all by herself.
I don't think there's any big problem with making one Z-list villain compelling. I think Black Widow is poorly suited to carry an entire trilogy. Her lack of source material as an independent hero combined with a history of having some of the MCU's dullest fight choreography are real strikes against carrying a franchise. The most interesting things about her are interpersonal, especially relationships whose origins we haven't seen like Hawkeye and Fury.

If the superhero film genre needs title woman 3.5, and she needs to be an Avenger, why not Scarlet Witch? She has flashy powers and Elizabeth Olsen is much cheaper.

 

[Protar]

Dude... As obscure as he is IRL, Zemo is almost an A-lister in-universe. He put together the Masters of Evil that temporarily defeated the Avengers at their mansion, with feats like beating the snot out of Hercules, and then he created the Thunderbolts. He shouldn't job to Black Widow all by herself.
I don't think there's any big problem with making one Z-list villain compelling. I think Black Widow is poorly suited to carry an entire trilogy. Her lack of source material as an independent hero combined with a history of having some of the MCU's dullest fight choreography are real strikes against carrying a franchise. The most interesting things about her are interpersonal, especially relationships whose origins we haven't seen like Hawkeye and Fury.

If the superhero film genre needs title woman 3.5, and she needs to be an Avenger, why not Scarlet Witch? She has flashy powers and Elizabeth Olsen is much cheaper.

Zemo is not a powerhouse, he's a master of manipulation. He's the perfect enemy for Widow to go up against. That doesn't preclude him from facing off against other heroes/more heroes at once any more than Thor defeating Loki on his own meant he couldn't be the villain of the Avengers. The same villain can be a threat for one hero or many depending on their current plan/resources/circumstances.

Fight choreography is a matter that can be fixed. I would not say there was anything particularly exciting about the fight choreography in Captain America: TFA, but they upped their game for TWS and CW. Cap has proved that flashy powers aren't needed for cool fight scenes.

 

[MasterCat]

Cap has his shield tricks and is allowed to get hurt. Widow uses completely unmemorable tools and it's hard to do good fight scenes if your hero isn't allowed to ever get hit by a man.
Really, Natasha isn't a superhero. She's a female version of the low-gadget version of James Bond. And at least in the Craig movies, that version of Bond gets the snot kicked out of him, in fight scenes that move around.

 

[Abudefduf]

Last night I had a terrible nightmare. I was sitting all alone in a dark theater, watching a marathon of the Black Widow trilogy... the worst part? Renner's Hawkeye was in all three movies. I woke up crying.

If the superhero film genre needs title woman 3.5, and she needs to be an Avenger, why not Scarlet Witch? She has flashy powers and Elizabeth Olsen is much cheaper.

Beats me. She's one of the - if not the - most iconic female Avengers, and she's a far more interesting character than Scarlett Widow. Plus, as you said, she has very cool powers... at least in the comics.

 

[David H.]

Isn’t Liz Olsen the one cast memener who doesn’t want a solo movie?

Besides Marvel’s James Bond/John Wick starring Scarlett Johansson is as solid a pitch as you’ll get these days.

 

[MasterCat]

Besides Marvel’s James Bond/John Wick starring Scarlett Johansson is as solid a pitch as you’ll get these days.

But which James Bond? As I said, she can't hold a candle to the gritty Daniel Craig version, because he gets to have memorable fight scenes, while she can never get hit by a man. She could be an invincible wish fulfillment figure with gadgets, but they haven't set anything up for that.

 

[David H.]

She doesn’t need a direct line drawn to Bond but I guess maybe aim for Goldeneye? Yelena Belova and all that.

As for the character’s set-up, well, we know she’s this world famous spy. They don’t miss the opportunity to name drop some exotic location in reference to a past mission. You accumulate the last 10 or so years and there’s enough of a precedent.

 

[MasterCat]

As for the character’s set-up, well, we know she’s this world famous spy. They don’t miss the opportunity to name drop some exotic location in reference to a past mission. You accumulate the last 10 or so years and there’s enough of a precedent.

I mean precedent for being a (fe)male wish fulfillment figure who gets out of scrapes with gadgets, never getting a bloody nose. She hasn't been set up as having a wealthy wish fulfillment lifestyle or an equivalent of Q.

 

[Kev4000]

Cap has his shield tricks and is allowed to get hurt. Widow uses completely unmemorable tools and it's hard to do good fight scenes if your hero isn't allowed to ever get hit by a man.
Really, Natasha isn't a superhero. She's a female version of the low-gadget version of James Bond. And at least in the Craig movies, that version of Bond gets the snot kicked out of him, in fight scenes that move around.

It dont Need too much Action, I can imagine Widow with a lot Psychothriller Elements.
Or at least Kill Bill.

 

[Abudefduf]

Isn’t Liz Olsen the one cast memener who doesn’t want a solo movie?

Oh, I'm sure she'll change her tune if Marvel offers her enough money.

 

[chamber-music]

Looks like it's down to 3

https://deadline.com/2018/06/black-...male-directors-scarlett-johansson-1202414395/

Amma asante is attached to 70s Russian cold war spy adaptation The Billion Dollar Spy.

 

[MasterCat]

Amma asante is attached to 70s Russian cold war spy adaptation The Billion Dollar Spy.

Red Sparrow... The Billion Dollar Spy... it's not looking like they're searching for women to make an action movie set in Anno Domini 2020, is it? t:

 

[David H.]

I mean precedent for being a (fe)male wish fulfillment figure who gets out of scrapes with gadgets, never getting a bloody nose. She hasn't been set up as having a wealthy wish fulfillment lifestyle or an equivalent of Q.

Because she isn’t Bond exactly? When I said it was Marvel’s chance at their own James Bond I really just meant a spy action movie in general with similar sci-fi trappings. Also, wouldn’t we all just assume that whatever equipment she has came from SHIELD?

 

[David H.]

Oh, I'm sure she'll change her tune if Marvel offers her enough money.

Yeah, I guess that’s true but I’m just not interested in a Scarlet Witch movie. To be totally honesy, though, I’m not crazy about Black Widow since I feel that ground’s been covered by the 2nd Cap movie but I do see more potential in it.

 

[BobJM]

Isn’t Liz Olsen the one cast memener who doesn’t want a solo movie?

Besides Marvel’s James Bond/John Wick starring Scarlett Johansson is as solid a pitch as you’ll get these days.

I always figured a BW movie would resemble Mission: Impossible moreso than a Daniel Craig/Bond flick with the gadetry and team aspect.

 

[Protar]

Cap has his shield tricks and is allowed to get hurt. Widow uses completely unmemorable tools and it's hard to do good fight scenes if your hero isn't allowed to ever get hit by a man.
Really, Natasha isn't a superhero. She's a female version of the low-gadget version of James Bond. And at least in the Craig movies, that version of Bond gets the snot kicked out of him, in fight scenes that move around.

Then fix these things about her. Let her go through the ringer as much as the male characters do. Give her some flashy and iconic spy gadgets. Keep the core of her character but reinvigorate her like they did with Thor and Hulk.

 

[pr0xyt0xin]

im okay with a marvel spy thriller. I just want them to break up the sexy Jiu Jitsu/Judo Black Widow is famous for with some fun Hawkeye moves and a bit of Winter Soldier's ferocity if possible. I mean, there should probably be a decent Marvel-Bond villain to face too.

 

[chamber-music]

But which James Bond? As I said, she can't hold a candle to the gritty Daniel Craig version, because he gets to have memorable fight scenes, while she can never get hit by a man. She could be an invincible wish fulfillment figure with gadgets, but they haven't set anything up for that.

Black Widow has got hit by men multiple times in the movies

Bucky/Winter Soldier kicked her ass in both Cap sequels

 

[Yowza]

James Bond is a cliche modern male protagonist involved in popcorn cheese movies that always follow similar type of formula. Like superhero's he can never be defeated but unlike superhero's a continuing story movie to movie doesn't really seem to be as much at the forefront.

 

[Milk Tray Guy]

I just want them to break up the sexy Jiu Jitsu/Judo Black Widow is famous for...

Black Widow is actually a distant relative of ***** Galore!

 

[Loki882]

Black Widow has got hit by men multiple times in the movies

Bucky/Winter Soldier kicked her ass in both Cap sequels

Bucky SHOT her in TWS to and she spent like ten minutes almost bleeding to death. Also it was the second time that he'd shot her apparently.

And Hawkeye got in some good hits in on her during their fight in TA as well. And Hulk smacked her into a wall to now that I think about it.

 

[Zant]

Marvel would rather give Antman 2 movies before they got around to a Black Widow film.....

Not exactly high priority, this one.They clearly don't want to make this film, but I guess fan pressure was strong enough.

People asking for Wanda movie....

 

[Yowza]

Far too many people on these boards lately seem to support characters like a political candidate (from a limited pool of stodgily delegated options of course) and expanded possibilities for different movies being made result in panties getting in a bunch.

I'm not going to quote anyone above as not fair to single out anyone in particular but I have to admit, it does get tiring to read post after post of people ridiculing a film being made for being based around a certain character.

I get it. People want to see Marvel Studio's FF and X-Men films and recycle over all the same characters who are most popular in the comics over and over again. Cliche storyline a must of course to go along with that.

For a superherohype board, I certainly see lots of negativity and stale interaction too often. These boards need to liven up a bit and people need to expand their minds a bit.

 

[BaronZemo]

Marvel would rather give Antman 2 movies before they got around to a Black Widow film.....

Not exactly high priority, this one.They clearly don't want to make this film, but I guess fan pressure was strong enough.

People asking for Wanda movie....

It's clearly a priority since they are actually making the film and Feige has used the exact same word, priority .

You seem to have a fundamental lack of understanding how Marvel Studios works after the Perlmutter era which is why you come off extremely misinformed and biased.

Feige is always supportive of female characters and minorities. This is the man which agreed to do an Inhumans movie in exchange for Black Panther and Captain Marvel, that story has been reported for ages now, you can look it up.

Pelmutter on the other hand is the guy who boycotted female toys and merchandise for MCU characters, cut off IM 3 female villain with an Ultimatum and held back BP and Cap Marvel until feige would give him his Inhumans movie to spite off Fox for having the X-men.

You can do some research before actually throwing jabs since you can get really exposed for having insufficient info.