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Post-US World Blueprint

There is a run on the currency in Russia and the Micex collapsed on the 17th by nearly 10%.

In the case of China they have the technical capability to decouple from the US (slowly and gradually), but their government appears to be doing all the wrong things, thus vitiating their chances.


Yes, and I believe that is why our Secretary of State went to Asia FIRST....Not that her trip has been anything more than "yawning"...but it does tell me that Obama knows what you just sited.
 
Yea, it's very Randian I admit. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Galt

http://www.reteaparty.com unofficial site apparently

BTW SuBe, the markets are down on certain rumors, not because of the stimulus

Yes, I wouldn't say that it was BECAUSE of the Stimulus the Markets are down, but the Stimulus was Sold to the American People as HAVING to happen QUICKY to SAVE the Economy. And I just think it is funny that 50% of America thinks it's going to work, and they justify it by saying "it takes time". Especially since I know that if just had a Tax Holiday for about 6 or 7 months, and didn't collect any Taxes from Individuals on Income or Capital Gains, then the Market would rebound and Personal Debts would decrease and Retail would increase. It's amazing how some people think that taking money out of the Private Sector stimulates it. . .
 
Parry, I just read that Link from Charting Stocks. :dry: Holy ****.
 
No offense, but this seems paranoid BS to me. There is no way Russia will replace the US, as the top country. Their economy is still a mess and they have one of the lowest birth rates in the world.

Some people need calm down, its not the end of days.
 
No offense, but this seems paranoid BS to me. There is no way Russia will replace the US, as the top country. Their economy is still a mess and they have one of the lowest birth rates in the world.

Some people need calm down, its not the end of days.
Dude post 50 :o - not many people are arguing for this case.

I just think he is trying to lull some people there but I doubt he will be successful. China is more likely, but even in a decoupling'ish scenario it would theoretically take 5-10 years for it work out.
 
Dude post 50 :o - not many people are arguing for this case.

I just think he is trying to lull some people there but I doubt he will be successful. China is more likely, but even in a decoupling'ish scenario it would theoretically take 5-10 years for it work out.

I think conservatives are too obsessed with Russia in general, it makes them look like they haven't gotten over the Cold war, makes them look like they are in the past. Russia is more of a rival then an enemy. Russia doesn't want to take over the world, they just want their own sphere of influence.
 
I think conservatives are too obsessed with Russia in general, it makes them look like they haven't gotten over the Cold war, makes them look like they are in the past. Russia is more of a rival then an enemy. Russia doesn't want to take over the world, they just want their own sphere of influence.
Does Russia really matter much - it's the ideas coming from all their recommendations. Even if they create these new frameworks, it's premised on the idea of America shooting itself on the foot, no?

The thing that needs to be understood, that is not seen on data sheets is, I think the Russians but more so the Chinese are the types of people that can weather things better when things get bad.

The Chinese are frugal and incredibly hardworking... and they also have tendency to try to keep peace and shut up and be almost excessively nice at times. But most importantly, I believe it has a lot to do with certain adherence to Confucianism that affects how they treat one and another. While I am not sure now, but did you know in Hong Kong for example, they have almost no welfare there? They also have no social security. They have highly supportive family networks and/or private organizations to perform these functions. Culturally it is also important you look after your parents when they get old, you don't just send them to a nursing home or something. When you have culture that provides these types of safety nets without a government's supplementing with social security or welfare, it goes a long way if the things get bad economically.

Now you look at this and look at America. When things get tough... your wallets becomes lighter, do you honestly think America will weather it as well? Look at the debt, the type of spending habits Americans have..? I could go on, but I think you can grasp on to these difference.

I think it is some of these minor nuances that will allow the Chinese to potentially usurp the economic engine off America. But hey I am not completely sold either, I think the communist government could **** things up.
 
No offense, but this seems paranoid BS to me. There is no way Russia will replace the US, as the top country. Their economy is still a mess and they have one of the lowest birth rates in the world.

Some people need calm down, its not the end of days.


I wonder if Putin would have given that same speech if the US had been in on this little conference?


Very doubtful...


Kind of like the UN, to our faces, everyone is soooo nice, but they have knives ready to stab us in the back as soon as we turn around.


Such is world politics....
 
I wonder if Putin would have given that same speech if the US had been in on this little conference?


Very doubtful...


Kind of like the UN, to our faces, everyone is soooo nice, but they have knives ready to stab us in the back as soon as we turn around.


Such is world politics....
It's for the better. At least you know better what is on his mind unhindered (in terms of confidence)

The cracks are starting to form with Asian investors.
Asian investors won’t buy debt and mortgage-backed securities from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac until they carry explicit U.S. guarantees, similar to those given on bonds issued by Bank of America Corp. or Citigroup Inc.

The risks are too great without a pledge that the U.S. will repay the debt no matter what, according to Hideo Shimomura, chief fund investor in Tokyo for Mitsubishi UFJ Asset Management Co., and other bondholders and analysts in Japan, China and South Korea interviewed by Bloomberg. Overseas resistance may hamper U.S. efforts to hold down home-loan rates and shore up the nation’s largest mortgage-finance companies.
 
I wonder if Putin would have given that same speech if the US had been in on this little conference?


Very doubtful...


Kind of like the UN, to our faces, everyone is soooo nice, but they have knives ready to stab us in the back as soon as we turn around.


Such is world politics....

Which is why we need to boot the UN out of this country....but the beauracracy love their diplomatic considerations when they visit the US....*******s
 
Does Russia really matter much - it's the ideas coming from all their recommendations. Even if they create these new frameworks, it's premised on the idea of America shooting itself on the foot, no?

The thing that needs to be understood, that is not seen on data sheets is, I think the Russians but more so the Chinese are the types of people that can weather things better when things get bad.

I still think many conservatives concern themselves too much with the Russians because a lot of them haven't moved on from the cold war. Russia is a different country now then it was 20 years ago, in terms of ability and objectives.

The Chinese are frugal and incredibly hardworking... and they also have tendency to try to keep peace and shut up and be almost excessively nice at times. But most importantly, I believe it has a lot to do with certain adherence to Confucianism that affects how they treat one and another. While I am not sure now, but did you know in Hong Kong for example, they have almost no welfare there? They also have no social security. They have highly supportive family networks and/or private organizations to perform these functions. Culturally it is also important you look after your parents when they get old, you don't just send them to a nursing home or something. When you have culture that provides these types of safety nets without a government's supplementing with social security or welfare, it goes a long way if the things get bad economically.

Now you look at this and look at America. When things get tough... your wallets becomes lighter, do you honestly think America will weather it as well? Look at the debt, the type of spending habits Americans have..? I could go on, but I think you can grasp on to these difference.

I think it is some of these minor nuances that will allow the Chinese to potentially usurp the economic engine off America. But hey I am not completely sold either, I think the communist government could **** things up.

The problem is the Chinese have a great manufacturing sector, but they don't have good ideas economy, Japan has a good ideas economy but doesn't have the room for a manufacturing sector. If you had a pan Asian alliance between the major powers there, that would pose a threat to the US, but all the countries in Asia hate each other. Plus China has massive environmental problems that will catch up soon.

Again great powers rise and great powers fall and often these falls come out of no where. Look at the fall of the USSR, no one predicted that. random circumstance can come out nowhere to change political fortunes. The cycle of history will continue long after the US has lost the current top position, only foolish people would believe the US would be on top forever. you can't stop the cycle of history, it has been going on since the dawn of human history.
 
No offense, but this seems paranoid BS to me. There is no way Russia will replace the US, as the top country. Their economy is still a mess and they have one of the lowest birth rates in the world.

Some people need calm down, its not the end of days.
I think conservatives are too obsessed with Russia in general, it makes them look like they haven't gotten over the Cold war, makes them look like they are in the past. Russia is more of a rival then an enemy. Russia doesn't want to take over the world, they just want their own sphere of influence.
I still think many conservatives concern themselves too much with the Russians because a lot of them haven't moved on from the cold war. Russia is a different country now then it was 20 years ago, in terms of ability and objectives.
You keep repeating the fact about "conservatives" obsessing and being paranoid over Russia, what does this have anything to do with a post-America blueprint? I've acknowledge Putin is just trying reach out, but Russia is almost beyond help now economically speaking. Hell I cited some data myself. Who gives a **** what the conservatives think? The inference of the article indicates it is more of cooperation of foreign countries anyways.

The problem is the Chinese have a great manufacturing sector, but they don't have good ideas economy, Japan has a good ideas economy but doesn't have the room for a manufacturing sector. If you had a pan Asian alliance between the major powers there, that would pose a threat to the US, but all the countries in Asia hate each other. Plus China has massive environmental problems that will catch up soon.

Again great powers rise and great powers fall and often these falls come out of no where. Look at the fall of the USSR, no one predicted that. random circumstance can come out nowhere to change political fortunes. The cycle of history will continue long after the US has lost the current top position, only foolish people would believe the US would be on top forever. you can't stop the cycle of history, it has been going on since the dawn of human history.
Japan does manufacture, it's their depleting population that is a problem. China's government to some extent stifles creative and independent thinking in the business world and probably in general. Kind of also like what America is doing right now. And what does environmental problems have anything to deal with the discussion of trade and economics? So it sucks living there, it's not going to mean much if America sucks even more now does it?

Yes there is tension, but not to the point of not looking after their own arses through cooperation. I mean China is no fan of America, Geither really screwed things up too recently - accusing China of currency manipulation when America is doing precisely the same thing as well, doesn't stop them from buying treasuries no?

And you are wrong, plenty of people predicted the downfall of USSR, some of them maybe even too early. Give this article a read. Bit long though

Quick snippet on the speech.
I think I prefer remaining just a tourist, because I have learned from experience – luckily, from other people's experience – that being a superpower collapse predictor is not a good career choice. I learned that by observing what happened to the people who successfully predicted the collapse of the USSR. Do you know who Andrei Amalrik is? See, my point exactly. He successfully predicted the collapse of the USSR. He was off by just half a decade. That was another valuable lesson for me, which is why I will not give you an exact date when USA will turn into FUSA ("F" is for "Former"). But even if someone could choreograph the whole event, it still wouldn't make for much of a career, because once it all starts falling apart, people have far more important things to attend to than marveling at the wonderful predictive abilities of some Cassandra-like person.
It's not a matter of being right, it's matter of positioning yourself so you don't get burnt much.
 
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You keep repeating the fact about "conservatives" obsessing and being paranoid over Russia, what does this have anything to do with a post-America blueprint? I've acknowledge Putin is just trying reach out, but Russia is almost beyond help now economically speaking. Hell I cited some data myself. Who gives a **** what the conservatives think? The inference of the article indicates it is more of cooperation of foreign countries anyways.

Fine forget conservatives, tons of people put too much focus on Russia in general, because they haven't moved past the cold war, they haven't considered how Russia has changed over the decades, its not the same entity.

Japan does manufacture, it's their depleting population that is a problem. China's government to some extent stifles creative and independent thinking in the business world and probably in general. Kind of also like what America is doing right now. And what does environmental problems have anything to deal with the discussion of trade and economics? So it sucks living there, it's not going to mean much if America sucks even more now does it?

How living does in America suck worse then living in China? Also Canada has more government intervention then America and its economy is doing better (Canada is only G-8 nation that hasn't needed to bail out its banks) so there is more too it then that.

Besides its foolish to link a nation's power just with its economic power. If China lets the country a toxic waste dump, that will effect the health of its citizens, which means production will be lower and someone, either the companies or the government will have to cover those health costs or clean up the mess. A strong nation cannot have an unhealthy population.

Japan does have a manufacturing sector, but China's is better in terms of size. Again if they teamed up, then they can pose an economic threat to the west, but that won't happen.

Yes there is tension, but not to the point of not looking after their own arses through cooperation. I mean China is no fan of America, Geither really screwed things up too recently - accusing China of currency manipulation when America is doing precisely the same thing as well, doesn't stop them from buying treasuries no?

The Chinese economy is based on selling cheap crap to west, their economy is linked to ours, they have suffered from the econmic downturn as well. No one has benefited from this, not even the Taliban (they are feeling the pinch too). The economies of the world are so interlinked it limits how much one can effect the other, without effecting themselves.

And you are wrong, plenty of people predicted the downfall of USSR, some of them maybe even too early. Give this article a read. Bit long though

Quick snippet on the speech.
It's not a matter of being right, it's matter of positioning yourself so you don't get burnt much.

Semantics, what I should have said is almost no one just because a few people saw that coming doesn't make it a common belief and thus it took a lot of people by surprise, which validates my point. How many people predicted 9-11, that was a huge game changer.

This is way this is pointless exercise there are so many things that could happen that almost no one can foresee, that will completely change the rules of the game.
 
Nice article but it was overly biased and the actions which have followed Davos are not really consistent with what the author states. However, he does touch and some true points and there are some valid 'fears'.

Exactly what I thought. While I dont doubt for a second that Putin would love to put Russia in the economic drivers seat of the world, it aint gonna be that easy. The US, UK and EU are wounded, not dead. They wont go down without a fight and Russia has been hit hard by the recession, too.

The editorial writer is a fear monger. Nothing more. Keep in mind that this is an editorial. Its all opinion. I personally put this "Post US Blueprint" in the same category as the "New American Century." Sounds feasible on paper, harder to bring into reality.
 
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The Chinese economy is based on selling cheap crap to west, their economy is linked to ours, they have suffered from the econmic downturn as well. No one has benefited from this, not even the Taliban (they are feeling the pinch too). The economies of the world are so interlinked it limits how much one can effect the other, without effecting themselves.

Exactly. China needs the west to by the stuff they create. If the US,UK and EU collapse we can't buy their goods and they don't make money. We are seeing this now in the recession. Its a global economy the truth is most nations around the world have a symbiotic relationship with another. We all depend on something from someone be it Gas, Oil, Food whatever. You can't turn the clock back like the Khmer Rouge or become an isolationist nation completely self sufficient.

Wen traveled to four major European capitals, whose significance is enormousHe met with Swiss leaders in Bern, with German leaders in Berlin, with Spanish leaders in Madrid, and with European Union leaders in Belgium. One should interpret this not as an endorsement of the status quo, as reported by the US press media, but rather as an announcement of the new structure to conform to the Putin Blueprint for a Post-US World.

Wen travelled to more than just the countries listed, it seems like this article is stretching to justify its statements.

I love how the UK is somehow the US evil sidekick and we have been conspiring together economically controlling the rest of the world :lmao:

I mean does the UK even have any power because it does feel like it living here and if we did we haven't ben using it.
 
Fine forget conservatives, tons of people put too much focus on Russia in general, because they haven't moved past the cold war, they haven't considered how Russia has changed over the decades, its not the same entity.



How living does in America suck worse then living in China? Also Canada has more government intervention then America and its economy is doing better (Canada is only G-8 nation that hasn't needed to bail out its banks) so there is more too it then that.

Besides its foolish to link a nation's power just with its economic power. If China lets the country a toxic waste dump, that will effect the health of its citizens, which means production will be lower and someone, either the companies or the government will have to cover those health costs or clean up the mess. A strong nation cannot have an unhealthy population.

Japan does have a manufacturing sector, but China's is better in terms of size. Again if they teamed up, then they can pose an economic threat to the west, but that won't happen.



The Chinese economy is based on selling cheap crap to west, their economy is linked to ours, they have suffered from the econmic downturn as well. No one has benefited from this, not even the Taliban (they are feeling the pinch too). The economies of the world are so interlinked it limits how much one can effect the other, without effecting themselves.



Semantics, what I should have said is almost no one just because a few people saw that coming doesn't make it a common belief and thus it took a lot of people by surprise, which validates my point. How many people predicted 9-11, that was a huge game changer.

This is way this is pointless exercise there are so many things that could happen that almost no one can foresee, that will completely change the rules of the game.
1. You're missing my point. Russia is incredibly moot, the potential of new trade rules wedges the world towards a decoupling scenario. Why does people fearing Russia have anything to do with this?

2. Canada is more resource and export driven, but it is 80% tied to America. Nice way of "spreading the risk". But it's resource and export surplus will give it leeway than America to absorb shock, but it won't last forever.

Despite it's "regulation" it is still "practicing" all the same mistakes like real estate speculation on a more controlled level. It's like America is a fat guy who eats a lot of junk food uncontrollably, while Canada does the same thing on but at slightly controlled level. It is still bad for your health. The Canadian banks has all the same derivative exposures on a lesser scale. Not to mention Canada has a ton of "crown corporations". If the country run into debt and budgetary problems from say woes in export (i.e. collapsed American market and protectionism)? A ton of government jobs get nuked, and their crown corporations which furthers the vicious cycle of reducing exports. Canada at best is a short term safe haven, there are still many fundamental flaws.

3. As for the toxic waste dump, if you can't get your own finances in order, just watch what happens to America's environment. This is why in Europe a ton of them are now starting to "lax" on the environmental stuff already because of economic constraints. Economics begets any environmental controls and preservation.

4. Your missing my other point. China and Japan at least has the foundation to manufacture, be it to America or to themselves. Meanwhile in America, you have this exorbitant trade deficit and bunch of service jobs geared towards... servicing Americans. It's a near full blown service economy, most of which has nothing of value creation, but of speculative value transference via cheap credits and financial engineering. If Americans were forced to manufacture stuff out of necessity, there would be a HUGE problem. Most college kids don't get a degree and expect to spend the rest of their lives doing grind it out manufacturing and/or farming then have most of the savings funneled into social security to fund the baby boomers and the deficit from the "economic stimulus".

Just read this article. Imagine if the stimulus does not work, and high taxes chases out or kill the "rich" people. Now you have a substantial increase in taxes all over the board, high unemployment and even less government services to boot. That will really please people. :whatever:
 
BTW SuBe, the markets are down on certain rumors, not because of the stimulus
That "rumor" seemed to have some credit.


U.S. Eyes Large Stake in Citi

Citigroup is in talks with federal officials that could result in the U.S. government substantially expanding its ownership of the struggling bank, the Wall Street Journal reports.


Citigroup Inc. is in talks with federal officials that could result in the U.S. government substantially expanding its ownership of the struggling bank, according to people familiar with the situation.

While the discussions could fall apart, the government could wind up holding as much as 40% of Citigroup's common stock. Bank executives hope the stake will be closer to 25%, these people said.

Any such move would give federal officials far greater influence over one of the world's largest financial institutions. Citigroup has proposed the plan to its regulators. The Obama administration hasn't indicated if it supports the plan, according to people with knowledge of the talks.

When federal officials began pumping capital into U.S. banks last October, few experts would have predicted that the government would soon be wrestling with the possibility of taking voting control of large financial institutions. The potential move at Citigroup would give the government its biggest ownership of a financial-services company since the September bailout of insurer American International Group Inc., which left taxpayers with an 80% stake.

The talks reflect a growing fear that Citigroup and other big U.S. banks could be overwhelmed by losses amid the recession and housing crisis. Last week, Citigroup's share price fell below $2 to an 18-year low. Bank executives increasingly believe that the government needs to take a larger ownership stake in the institution to stop the slide.

Under the scenario being considered, a substantial chunk of the $45 billion in preferred shares held by the government would convert into common stock, people familiar with the matter said. The government obtained those shares, equivalent to a 7.8% stake, in return for pumping capital into Citigroup.

The move wouldn't cost taxpayers additional money, but other Citigroup shareholders would see their stock diluted. A larger ownership stake by the government could fuel speculation that other troubled banks will line up for similar agreements.

Read the full report at The Wall Street Journal
 
Is that even legal?
 
To the Imperial Federal Government? Of course it's legal, they don't care about what is Legal anymore, they just make it up as they go.
 
No one sane will touch ****i Group, if the government does not do something, the money "invested" in ****i will look like a waste. Which of course was the case anyways.

By my estimation and from what I understand and read, there are 10-15 major big banks that will need to be nationalized. The type of nationalization we are talking about though is not the permanent type though: it's the "clean it up" and resell it back to the market type. Ironically it might be more market friendly and less costly than pouring money into a black hole. If they are doing this, they should have done it in the first place as Roubini kept arguing for, because now all those bailouts as just costly wastes of time.
 
Exactly what I thought. While I dont doubt for a second that Putin would love to put Russia in the economic drivers seat of the world, it aint gonna be that easy. The US, UK and EU are wounded, not dead. They wont go down without a fight and Russia has been hit hard by the recession, too.

The editorial writer is a fear monger. Nothing more. Keep in mind that this is an editorial. Its all opinion. I personally put this "Post US Blueprint" in the same category as the "New American Century." Sounds feasible on paper, harder to bring into reality.
Yes, but it wouldn't be difficult to bankrupt the country though. Hell it's not a question of it, but when if you ask me. Maybe something drastic might happen but it is my sincerest doubts.
 
Doesn't bankruptcy do exactly what the government is trying to do? Company files bankruptcy and all their assets that are worth anything get bought up... why do we need to waste tax dollars on something that can be achieved through "natural" processes?
 

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