Psylocke/Kwannon Thread

[WatchProtect]

I'm not dying on any hill but Bodyswap is obviously a No. (Okay, I'll die on this hill)

Adapting them both separately is possible but seems very unlikely imo. As I just don't see their being time and space.

Making Betsy Braddock, British is possible but as seen above people have issues with it.

Maybe they just give up and don't use her, but whatever it is will probably not be a widespread favorable decision.

 

[Lily Adler]

Correct. And we can do better in 2024 than having the most prominent Asian character in the x-men secretly a white woman doing yellowface. Especially in a franchise about diversity and acceptance.

Plus this way you get not one but two great characters!

Starting to see why Psylocke is always mute in these films.

 

[Tg11]

Sonoya Mizuno for Psylocke

 

[Silvermoth]

And that's if we get Kwannon and Betsy. There are so many X-Men to choose from.

Also its not Betsy's fault that some writer decided to give her that body swap story arc. Outside of the body swap, she still made a lot of contribution in the comics more so than Kwannon as a member of the X-Men.

And if people are okay to racebend certain characters like the Professor, Magneto, Rogue, Gambit, Jean, Cyclops. I don't see why they can't make Betsy an Asian from birth in these movies. She was already portrayed by two Asian women in the movies as well.

I’m not saying it’s Betsy’s fault, I’m saying the body swap did both characters a disservice and you can still do great stories without erasing Kwannon.

And it’s not a racebend. It’s literally a white woman in an Asian woman’s body which is the issue. If we want diversity we don’t just want people’s skin, we want their authentic stories and selves and to empower them

 

[Silvermoth]

Starting to see why Psylocke is always mute in these films.

Yeah that’s sort of another issue as well. I read a study that said the most desired accents tend to be European (British, Italian, French) and least desired come from other nations. So people kind of fetishise Asian people but hate when they speak. I can’t help but think the bodyswap thing is kind of related to this, like straight guys are like “wow hot Asian chick but don’t worry she doesn’t have that gross accent!”

 

[Sithborg]

East Asian Betsy is not inherently an issue. Making her a ninja you start to get into Shang Chi Mandarin territory, where you are trying to make something that wasn't originally okay into something okay.

 

[Lily Adler]

East Asian Betsy is not inherently an issue. Making her a ninja you start to get into Shang Chi Mandarin territory, where you are trying to make something that wasn't originally okay into something okay.

Let's get even more tone deaf and get Jessica Henwick for the role.

 

[Lily Adler]

So we've come to the understanding. Either Marvel will do Kwannon is Psylocke and Betsy is Captain Britain or Betsy is a Japanese Brit.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

My idea has always been that they initially have Brian and Betsy Braddock as half-siblings with the same father (Otherworlder James Braddock), and introduce a fully Japanese Kwannon later on as the new Psylocke around when Betsy is about to retire that name (to become Captain Britain, or when the actress wants to leave the MCU). Though there can be some overlap like with the Hawkeyes, like if there's a Psylocke D+ show that has both of them as main characters or something. That way they can have a half-Japanese Betsy (Sonoya Mizuno for example) who is fully immersed in all the Captain Britain stuff, and also get the fully Japanese Psylocke in Kwannon.
They could focus both of them on different aspects of Psylocke. Betsy would probably be British, have lighter purple hair and a purple suit, have the psychic butterfly effect, psychic knives, etc. While Kwannon would be a Japanese citizen, with black/dark purple hair, and a dark blue or black costume with a red sash, a psychic-infused katana, etc. And both would have unique personalities and perhaps one of them would obtain the Crimson Dawn to set them further apart.

 

[Sithborg]

Nah, if you make Betsty asian, make Brian as well. Let the bigots choke on that.

 

[Silvermoth]

Marvel I’m not kidding, there’s our Psylocke!

 

[psylockolussus]

I refuse to accept Kwannon to be Psylocke in the movies.

That would be a slap to Betsy's tenure as Psylocke for over 3 decades. Not really properly adapted in the previous movies. And another character gets to be the definitive Psylocke in the MCU.

Sounds awful to me.

 

[Silvermoth]

I think maybe you should avoid this thread since it seems to make you unhappy.

Anyway Kwannon is awesome! I almost named my cat after her 😻

 

[Sithborg]

I refuse to accept Kwannon to be Psylocke in the movies.

That would be a slap to Betsy's tenure as Psylocke for over 3 decades. Not really properly adapted in the previous movies. And another character gets to be the definitive Psylocke in the MCU.

Sounds awful to me.

I think the question you have to ask yourself, genuinely, how much of what you liked about Betsy, was technically stolen from Kwannon. This is the part that has me conflicted about race bending Betsy. And yes, it is race bending, despite the almost 30 odd years of the body swap. Is representation served by upholding a grave mistake of the past? Is continuing to make people think Betsy is Asian good rep? I am slowly coming around to the belief that making Betsy asian is not a good idea.

 

[Venom 1988]

Given Kwannon is showing up as Psylocke in both the X-Men comics and now in the new Ultimate X-Men comics, I feel this further cements that Marvel wants to keep Betsy separate from Psylocke going forward. Which tbh, is probably for the best.

 

[Primal Slayer]

I refuse to accept Kwannon to be Psylocke in the movies.

That would be a slap to Betsy's tenure as Psylocke for over 3 decades. Not really properly adapted in the previous movies. And another character gets to be the definitive Psylocke in the MCU.

Sounds awful to me.

I get you but....Betsy was in Kwa's body and they aint doing that storyline in today's day or age.

 

[psylockolussus]

I get you but....Betsy was in Kwa's body and they aint doing that storyline in today's day or age.

What I said had nothing to do with the body swap though.

Its about the title "Psylocke".

If Kwannon appears in the MCU, just call her Kwannon or Revanche. But leave the codename Psylocke to Betsy.

Also I don't want Betsy to be Captain Britain.

 

[Primal Slayer]

What I said had nothing to do with the body swap though.

Its about the title "Psylocke".

If Kwannon appears in the MCU, just call her Kwannon or Revanche. But leave the codename Psylocke to Betsy.

Also I don't want Betsy to be Captain Britain.

Betsy doesn't even have the name now. Kwannon is known as Psylocke to the general public and her body has held the name long enough to keep it in films just as she does in comics.

Unfortunately Betsy won't get the name unless they plan to introduce Kwannon taking it over but who knows. Both have dibs on it imo

 

[CaptainWagner]

IMO, the most likely option is, in the event we get Psylocke in the MCU at all, and who knows at this rate, that they're just going to merge the characters. What her "real" name will be, who knows. But I don't really see them adapting any version of Captain Britain, so odds are, whether she goes by Kwannon or Betsy, she's going to be her own thing w/Psylocke's powers.

 

[Sithborg]

Given Kwannon is showing up as Psylocke in both the X-Men comics and now in the new Ultimate X-Men comics, I feel this further cements that Marvel wants to keep Betsy separate from Psylocke going forward. Which tbh, is probably for the best.

Also, Kwannon is getting her own solo. So, Kwannon is getting pushed pretty hard.

 

[psylockolussus]

Betsy doesn't even have the name now. Kwannon is known as Psylocke to the general public and her body has held the name long enough to keep it in films just as she does in comics.

Unfortunately Betsy won't get the name unless they plan to introduce Kwannon taking it over but who knows. Both have dibs on it imo

Kwannon is only known as Psylocke for those are aware of the recent comics. Most of the general public don't buy comics, even if they do - Betsy is associated with the codename much longer.

Now, do we think that Psylocke that appeared in Deadpool& Wolverine, Fortnight, X-Men '97 are Kwannon or not? Betsy is still the first and foremost the Psylocke in the Marvel Universe, and it simply not right to throw away all those years that Betsy appeared as Psylocke in hundreds of X-Men comics from the 80s to 10s. Just because someone decided to call Kwannon as Psylocke. Logan is still the definitve Wolverine, same thing with Betsy as Psylocke.

Betsy has a longer history with using the name Psylocke, and has been with the X-Men much longer as well. Dismissing those things is a disrespect to the character.

 

[Sithborg]

Kwannon is only known as Psylocke for those are aware of the recent comics. Most of the general public don't buy comics, even if they do - Betsy is associated with the codename much longer.

Now, do we think that Psylocke that appeared in Deadpool& Wolverine, Fortnight, X-Men '97 are Kwannon or not? Betsy is still the first and foremost the Psylocke in the Marvel Universe, and it simply not right to throw away all those years that Betsy appeared as Psylocke in hundreds of X-Men comics from the 80s to 10s. Just because someone decided to call Kwannon as Psylocke. Logan is still the definitve Wolverine, same thing with Betsy as Psylocke.

Betsy has a longer history with using the name Psylocke, and has been with the X-Men much longer as well. Dismissing those things is a disrespect to the character.

Show someone the current versions Betsy and Kwannon, who do you think they are going to say is Psylocke?

And that, in the end, is where my issue is with a lot of "Betsy" fans. They don't care about the character, they care about character traits. They feel a look and style appropriated from someone else is hers. I mean, even you, a fan of Betsy as you say, decry her being in X-Force, even though Remender's Uncanncy X-Force is probably the best story arc Betsy has ever gotten. Hell, how many Psylocke fans will throw a hissy fit if she wears ****ing pants.

The body swap adds unfortunate implications to east asian Betsy. And those implications are were I am beginning to not support east asian Betsy. Whether or not that means Pyslocke is east asian, or not, well, that is another issue. I mean, the multiple Mandarin issues shows that maybe, even an attempt to fix something egregious from the comics is not worth it.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Kwannon is only known as Psylocke for those are aware of the recent comics. Most of the general public don't buy comics, even if they do - Betsy is associated with the codename much longer.

Now, do we think that Psylocke that appeared in Deadpool& Wolverine, Fortnight, X-Men '97 are Kwannon or not? Betsy is still the first and foremost the Psylocke in the Marvel Universe, and it simply not right to throw away all those years that Betsy appeared as Psylocke in hundreds of X-Men comics from the 80s to 10s. Just because someone decided to call Kwannon as Psylocke. Logan is still the definitve Wolverine, same thing with Betsy as Psylocke.

Betsy has a longer history with using the name Psylocke, and has been with the X-Men much longer as well. Dismissing those things is a disrespect to the character.

The general audience grew up with Kwannons body appearing in XTAS and Apocalypse. That is more than enough and the important bit. Psylocke is Asian to the GA, not white.

 

[psylockolussus]

The general audience grew up with Kwannons body appearing in XTAS and Apocalypse. That is more than enough and the important bit. Psylocke is Asian to the GA, not white.

Kwannon was never adapted in the movies and the cartoons. You are just assuming the Psylocke in those, went through the body swap. Thankfully that was never showcased in those.

Also, just in case you missed, Kwannon was created in 1992 iirc. Betsy was already Psylocke for many years. Kwannon was killed in the comics in 1994 iirc, and was only resurrected in 2018. The iconic bathing suit was worn by Betsy for about 3 decades, before someone at Marvel decided to give Betsy's signature costume (which was adapted in the cartoons/Apocalypse 2016) to Kwannon....

Kwannon is only being called as Psylocke since 2020. Betsy had the codename from the 80s to 2019...

 

[Venom 1988]

Kwannon was never adapted in the movies and the cartoons. You are just assuming the Psylocke in those, went through the body swap. Thankfully that was never showcased in those.

Also, just in case you missed, Kwannon was created in 1992 iirc. Betsy was already Psylocke for many years. Kwannon was killed in the comics in 1994 iirc, and was only resurrected in 2018. The iconic bathing suit was worn by Betsy for about 3 decades, before someone at Marvel decided to give Betsy's signature costume (which was adapted in the cartoons/Apocalypse 2016) to Kwannon....

Kwannon is only being called as Psylocke since 2020. Betsy had the codename from the 80s to 2019...

And Carol Danvers went by Ms. Marvel for 35 years before she became Captain Marvel. Now Ms. Marvel is associated with Kamala Kahn and I highly doubt they're going to give the name back to Carol.

Just because Betsy had that name originally doesn't mean she needs to have it. As mentioned, most people when they hear the name Psylocke think of Kwannon's body. Nobody is thinking of her brief stint as white Psylocke in the late 80s before all the Hand stuff and later the body swap. Heck Betsy was Captain Britian briefly in the 80s before she ever took up the name in the first place. Her being Captain Britian in present day is just going back to that.