Punisher 2004 SUCKED and here's why!

[MrQuinn]

Jane owned in the role. Too bad he wont be back for another movie. But at least he's also in the xbox/pc/ps2 punisher game where his voice work was top notch.

that game rules

 

[Jick]

I was never fond in the character. so maybe that's why I loved the 2004 movie so much.
it's really sad that it didn't have a sequel, but I'm looking forward to the new one.

 

[BULLITT]

Jane was fine. He just needed a better script.

Word !

 

[Nivek]

The Dolph one is bad, but it has some awesome scenes. The casino scene where he has the M-60 with the grenade launcher taking out Yakuza is awesome and the scene where him and Gianni Franco are on the elevator and when those doors open they take out all of those guys training. I think the movie would be more accepted if he had the iconic skull shirt.

I agree, the scene where the Dolph Punisher turns down the body armor still makes me cringe. But it had awesome fight choreography. The guy who directed it was a first time director who was one of Hollywoods best action film editors.

But I also agree with the first post in the thread about the Jane Punisher. It had as much wrong with it as the Dolph version in my eyes. Frank being a suicidal drunk that frames people with tickets and gay rape photos is as bad as being a naked nutball who lives in the sewers who turns down body armor.

The Ray Punisher looks like it will be the closest to the source material yet, and I will check it out opening day. Everything seems pretty right, and after the last two takes I want this one to actually give us a continuing series.

 

[RedHood55]

It blowed

 

[RedHood55]

I blew

 

[RedHood55]

Yeah I found it to be quite repulasive

 

[Oddzball]

I never got what made the Punisher more than a background Spiderman character in the first place. He's a cheesy knock off of Mack Bolan: The Executioner modified for a four color universe.

 

[claydogg]

hmmmm

 

[Joe Von Zombie]

I never got what made the Punisher more than a background Spiderman character in the first place. He's a cheesy knock off of Mack Bolan: The Executioner modified for a four color universe.

This is what made him more than a background character:
http://www.marvelmasterworks.com/marvelhcs/punborn.html

When the character is well written, he's the best Marvel has to offer.

 

[Bubonic]

I can't understand why some people hug Jane's junk so tightly, going so far as saying he IS the Punisher.

Meh.

It was a decent adaptation, but the source material was so much better it isn't even funny. The fire hydrant stuff was so lame, it felt like I was watching some angry wife setting up her husband, such convoluted crap.

Jane is a big softie, he doesn't have the physical presence, his voice felt forced, he just came off as a guy trying to come off as tough, not someone you just know is tough.

I might of been interested in the evolution of Frank Castle if it hadn't been done in such a boring way, nowadays if I watch it I'll skip to the Russian fight scene, then to his last campaign when he became the Punisher and went on his little rampage.

Even the Russian scene took a blow due to their stupid idea of cutting to Bumpy and the stupid ****ing music...

It was a watered down piece of crap version of the Punisher, and I'm glad we will get something with a bit more edge this time around... Although I'll reserve judgement for when I actually see it.

Oh, and I bet three quarters of the Jane loyalist will covert to Stevenson once they see WZ anyways, as fans are a fickle lot.

 

[DaRkVeNgeanCe]

I love the 04 Punisher for quite a few reasons but can definitly see alot of flaws, mostly I was just happy getting a GOOD Punisher film compared to that Dolph Lundgren garbage.

 

[dft-313]

Punisher 2004 is misunderstood and here's why!

With all courtesy to the OP (and whoever he quotes), a closer watching of the film and some general cinema knowledge goes a long way to explaining The Punisher 2004.

Straight off, I like it. I thought it was trash when i saw it at the cinema, but with subsequent watches, it's an average movie which has some great moments but is mired down in an attempt to be all things to all people.

Good things:

Thomas Jane - considering the crying some did when he was cast, he is excellent. He handles all the elements of the role beautifully - he's sincere, troubled, dead to the world. Add to that how convincing he is when the action heats up and his clear commitment to the training and you have a real world Punisher for me.

Quinten Glass - forget the actor's name - but what a performance. Sinister and vulnerable at the same time. Add in the subtext that he's in love with Saint and it's a great role.

The Western vibe - cause Hensleigh is clearly trying to reference Once Upon A Time In The West all the way through. When viewed in that way, the slightly melodramatic flavour works better.

The Diner Scene - i might be alone in this, but the scene where Harry heck sings to him sent shivers up my spine. Shame they killed him off so quickly.

The execution - brilliantly done. No flaws whatsoever.

The Club - love the scene in its entirety. The cold deliberation is really dramatic - this is a man killing off the last of his humanity.

So, that's me pointed out the great moments. I want to reply to the main points in the OP.

And why does every comic book movie these days have to be an origin story?

Because studios insist that a new audience can understand immediately. Personally, i think it needed a bit more mystery, but when they were clearly retelling OUATITW, I can see that wouldn't have worked cause there's no way the studio would have allowed them to use the same structure as that film, which would have allowed.

Thomas Jane sucks. According to IMDB, he's been in half a dozen other movies I've seen, and I don't remember him even existing in any of them.

Plenty of knowledgable movie viewers do know him - he's not a leading man, but he's a solid actor. You basically don't like him, which is fine, but to say he was bad in the role is just not true.

instead of the remorseless killing machine which Castle is supposed to be. He's a raging alcoholic, he constantly doubts himself, Hell he even seems about to commit suicide at one point. In most of the fight scenes, he spends the majority of the time getting his ass kicked and then limps away half-dead afterwards. What?!! The Punisher should be casually snapping guys' necks and mowing down entire crowds with an M-60, not almost getting killed by just one or two enemies at a time. He's just not mean enough, and it kills the whole movie.

That's your interpretation of the character - much of the time in Ennis' adaptation (which is rapidly becoming canon) he does take a hellacious beating. A good chunk of welcome Back, Frank has him seriously wounded. same with the initial War Zone run. The badass you mention is mostly from the rubbishy 90s run.

Year One, the source of the story, does portray him as a man who has lost everything and he thinks about suicide. He does doubt himself (actually less so in the movie), going to the authorities at first and then with a journalist. This film was him killing off what remained of Frank Castle and becoming the Punisher.

The rest of your post basically comes to my general problem with the film: it doesn't ever settle on what it wants to be - and I think Lionshead have a lot to blame for that. They saw Welcome Back, Frank as the best selling run in years, by a name team coming off of Preacher as a potential money maker. Hensleigh, to his credit, went a little deeper and tried to change the onus of the film. But the studio wanted those elements and, the fact is, a lot of the posters on SHH at the time wanted that stuff too.

If it had stuck to the western feel and revealed the origin as the film went on - i'd have loved if the killers spoke about Castle like he was some sort of monster, telling the increasingly exaggerated tales of his wrath - it might have sat a bit better.

I actually liked the "framing" story - some of it seemed contrived, but it's well thought out - particularly the shot of Glass kissing the guy - beatifully handled - Castle's not disgusted, he's finally seen a way to make his plan work.

But, the constant shifts in tone and the refusal to really let it get dark causes it problems it can never recover from.

if you don't like it, that's fine, but the "review" seems to have some significant problems with the source material as much as the film.

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

Thomas Jane was awesome, IMO. I didn't see it until it came out on dvd.. and really regretted not going to the theater to see it.

 

[S. Grundy]

Quinten Glass - forget the actor's name - but what a performance. Sinister and vulnerable at the same time. Add in the subtext that he's in love with Saint and it's a great role.

Will Patton is his, and he is always a solid actor in anything he does. Also, the scene where he tortures Dave is just sickening and great.

The Diner Scene - i might be alone in this, but the scene where Harry heck sings to him sent shivers up my spine. Shame they killed him off so quickly.

I liked it too, it's so random that I love it. Harry Heck actually lasted longer in the movie then he did the comic, which I think he only had 3 panels and no dialogue.

The rest of your post basically comes to my general problem with the film: it doesn't ever settle on what it wants to be - and I think Lionshead have a lot to blame for that. They saw Welcome Back, Frank as the best selling run in years, by a name team coming off of Preacher as a potential money maker. Hensleigh, to his credit, went a little deeper and tried to change the onus of the film. But the studio wanted those elements and, the fact is, a lot of the posters on SHH at the time wanted that stuff too.

If it had stuck to the western feel and revealed the origin as the film went on - i'd have loved if the killers spoke about Castle like he was some sort of monster, telling the increasingly exaggerated tales of his wrath - it might have sat a bit better.

I actually liked the "framing" story - some of it seemed contrived, but it's well thought out - particularly the shot of Glass kissing the guy - beatifully handled - Castle's not disgusted, he's finally seen a way to make his plan work.

But, the constant shifts in tone and the refusal to really let it get dark causes it problems it can never recover from.

See, I saw that as Hensleigh trying to stick close to the dark humor that was in the Ennis Marvel Knights stuff, on one hand you can blame him for it and can't, because he was trying to keep in tome with how the comic was being written.

 

[TwilightPro101]

Didn't have any issue with Tom Jane, but felt the script missed the right marks in regards to the character and how the Punisher handles things.

 

[Knightsaber Priss]

I kinda like this movie, maybe because of Thomas Jane.

 

[Kiltak]

The problem here is that you can't make a Punisher movie that will make every one happy. This is one of those odd comic books that can be done from different view points and all work.

The Punisher back in the 80s really showed use a punisher that is haunted by the death of his family. You weren't supposed to walk walk out of the movie thinking it was the greatest movie of all time. You were supposed to walk out thinking that it was a kick ass action flick, nothing more and nothing less, and it was.

The 2004 Punisher was something new. This was an origin piece, one were we see Frank go through the process that led him to becoming the Punisher. They wrote the movie the way they did so you would feel for the guy, so you would understand why he sets out to do the things he does. Again this was an origin piece, he doesn't truly become the punisher till the very end. That was the whole point.

Now War Zone is something different. This character who has been the punisher for a while. They showed use the warrior, soldier. We see a character who does what he does because no one else will. Yet he is not a bad guy, he is the good guy.

I think all versions have some element of the comic book in them. It's all in the point of view. I liked all of them for different reasons. Can any of them make the claim to be dead on with the comic, no. They all drew from different elements went for a certain view points of the comic book, however none of them were dead on.

If I had to say which is the close to the comic book I would go with War Zone. However I enjoyed the 2004 Punisher.

 

[knightofistari]

I didn't see the 04 version till it was on DVD but after I watched it, I LOVED it.

Now, before anyone jumps on that, here's my background. I'm great at all things Superman. I like Batman but rarely read it. I have never been into Marvel comics until I was in college.

So, I read Superman, some Batman, I read the xmen, some Wolverine comics and it was the 04 Punisher that got me into reading Punisher. I've read Welcome back frank, Born and a small amount of MAX.

I've read a little since then and after seein War Zone, I didn't walk away hating it, I just walked away loving Ray Stevenson...as for the movie itself, I didn't hate it, nor did I love it.

but I still love the 04 version. I just literally sat down and read Welcome Back Frank and thought the 04 version did a decent job of giving us an origin story, mixing welcome back frank with that.....I honestly don't know why everyone seems to hate it. Unless they have problems with the Welcome Back Frank version of Punisher.....and if thats the case, they have a problem with it, not really the movie....

I own the 89 version and the 04 version. I will buy TPWZ when it comes out on DVD also.

I just wanted to put in my two cents. I liked the 04 Punisher. I just went out and bought the extended version.

 

[Joker]

If you liked Punisher '04, and Welcome Back Frank, it might be worth tracking down Punisher: Year One. That's the main thing they mixed in with Welcome Back, Frank to get the movie.

And the extended version of '04 is great, by the way, good purchase.

 

[MrQuinn]

the Diner Scene with Harry Heck I thought was awesome as well. Hell, I actually like the song a lot and downloaded it after watching the movie

 

[Joker]

That song is the best one on the soundtrack. Mark Collie should really do more acoustic stuff with just him and a guitar, as opposed to the more new country style stuff he does. He's got a great voice that gets covered up by over production.

 

[GoblinWhirlwind]

That song IS awesome. I should look for that badboy.

 

[RockMaverick]

I think the biggest problem comes from them developing Saint more than Castle. If they spent a little more time developing his character, could have made for a better movie. I also don't like how it seemed that everyone knew where Castle was living.

 

[Joker]

I think the biggest problem comes from them developing Saint more than Castle. If they spent a little more time developing his character, could have made for a better movie. I also don't like how it seemed that everyone knew where Castle was living.

It followed the standard Garth Ennis arc format, where the villain is built up through the first 2/3s and then Frank comes in and wastes him in the end.