BvS questions on BvS (spoilers)

[OutOfBoose]

My only problem with this is that Bruce was onto the White Portuguese (the ship, though Bruce thought it was a person, the K-rock was smuggled in on) BEFORE Lex resorted to smuggling the Kryptonite in on the ship. So, why was the White Portuguese on Bruce's radar in the first place? Maybe Lex already had things set in motion to be ready to smuggle the K-rock if he needed to resort to it? Or maybe he was already smuggling things on the ship, like the original sliver of Kryptionite he had?

Lex said they found it when they were rebuilding Metropolis, souvenir from World Engine. Maybe he lied and smuggled it in... Who knows... Not explained (like many-many other things in the film). He wanted to import it legally just to save trouble smuggling it in, I suppose.

I still think that Lex wanted Batman to steal the Kryptonite. I just wish we actually got to see him steal it. Instead we just get a Batarang left at the crime scene. Because, you know, Batman needs to make it knows when he breaks the law.

It made absolutely no sense leaving Batarang there. Whatsoever. Unless Batman wanted Lex and stupid audience to know - he's ready to take down Superman. Otherwise the plot would collapse.

 

[SuperAl]

1. What exactly happened in Africa that triggered these senate hearings? How is a bunch of people being shot Superman's fault? He saved American lives and now the government wants him to answer for it because.... why?

2. How does Lex know who Clark is? He apparently has already figured it out since he used Lois as bait, but the fact that it isn't even touched on is odd. Does he know Batman's as well?

3. Why did Superman break the batmobile in the middle of a chase and just let the guys Batman was pursuing go on their way?

4. Why didn't Superman go save Martha after he and Batman reconciled? How did Alfred figure out where he is? The answers to this are probably in the movie, I just can't remember.

5. Why did Lex create Doomsday to begin with? He knew Batman had the kryptonite and set it up so those two would fight. That came out of nowhere and the only real answer is because Snyder wants this movie to have a big over the top 3rd act climax.

6. Why Superman didn't bother explaining the situation to Batman before he decided to start punching back is just ridiculous, but I'm sure there won't be a satisfying answer to this one so maybe I should just scratch it.

7. Why didn't Wonder Woman use the spear against Doomsday? Obviously it's because Snyder and co. wanted that ending but it doesn't make any sense given that there was someone who could physically handle themselves against Doomsday right next to him.

1. The senate hearing, eye witnesses heard thunder from the sky and then a bunch of people died in that scene as well as in the village. Obviously Lex hired men to kill a bunch of people so there is no one there other than Lois to explain what might of happened outside the building and in a nearby village.

2. The Lois aspect, he saves her multiple times in MOS. Seen kissing her in MOS after he catches her. Lois, i am assuming has written about him so i imagine he tested that theory in Africa, superman showed so clearly he realized there was a connection there. How he knows hes Clark, well movie magic i guess. Hes obviously been studying other metas so im guessing he knows who everyone is.

3. Batman killed several people(im guessing) in the scenes leading up to that moment. That was kind of Superman's issue with batman to begin with. My guess is he wanted to stop him from killing the rest of the people he was chasing.

4. Alfred and Bruce were tracking them since the beginning of the movie. After the fight club scene, bruce basically hacked the russian's phone so he knew where he was after that moment. Batman told superman to go to the ship and he would get his mother.

5. Not exactly sure about this, my guess was this was his backup plan if batman was unable to kill superman. I was assuming after he asked the AI to teach him he might have some sort of control over doomsday because they shared DNA.

6. He tried. Its like trying to stop someone from yelling at you and they smack you in the face a few times. I imagine your reaction would be anger and you'd end up fighting back regardless of the situation. Emotions take over.

7. She was holding doomsday in place with her lasso, batman hit him with the kryptonite gas.

 

[writer0327]

He just wanted a kryptonian body to experiment on and a way to access the ship. The notion of creating Doomsday came after he got all that knowledge.

That's right, that's right, he cut off his fingerprints to get access to the ship.

Any thoughts on the blood? Was Lex thinking he would control Doomsday because of it?

 

[JTStarkiller]

All great answers, SuperAl.

 

[RoughNTumble]

what was the purpose of batman grappling on to the car after he rammed it and dragging it behind him for a while?

 

[morningmimosa]

Any thoughts on the blood? Was Lex thinking he would control Doomsday because of it?

I think he learnt from the AI that the blood was necessary to create Doomsday.

 

[JTStarkiller]

what was the purpose of batman grappling on to the car after he rammed it and dragging it behind him for a while?

This is clearly a Batman that's unhinged. His methods have grown more destructive in nature. I personally loved his arc in this film. Everything leads to the Martha scene and that's when he's reborn (like at the beginning with the bats taking him up to the light).

 

[JaD]

Saw the movie again yesterday and a few things are bugging me, I still enjoyed the movie but my rating went down just a tad on my 2nd viewing, maybe a 6.5/10 now but anyways.

- This has already been brought up but it's still bugging me, did the public really think Superman had something to do with those terrorists getting killed in the beginning of the movie? They all died from gunshot wounds and the only casualty on Supes' hand could have maybe been the warlord but we never find out if he died or not. It just seemed dumb to me that the public would think that Supes would kill multiple people with guns and even if the government covered up the cause of death for the people what's their reasoning for doing so when they clearly have inside info that someone or some group went rogue during that meeting (put the blame on him I guess?) and Superman showed up to help, because that's what he always does. He should have started an official Twitter account and answer to people there ha. I don't know, it made no sense to me. Even if it was a some big government conspiracy why wasn't it fleshed out more and why did they give him a huge military funeral in the end to honor him if there was something else going on. Edit: I see some of your answers above about this SuperAl, nice answer and I missed that the lady in the beginning was referring to Superman showing up during that particular attack. Still seems fishy that he could be blamed for that unless witnesses say they saw Superman gunning people down or spotted in the village at some point.

- I remember bringing up how I didn't know why Lois went back for the spear (and why the hell she tossed it in the first place) and someone mentioned that she may have overheard Batman talking about the spear but on 2nd viewing this is definitely not the case. Batman is flying in the Batwing towards the Doomsday chaos when he talks to Alfred about the spear and a scene or so after that Lois is randomly going back for the spear when she sees some stuff going on in the horizon. I guess I'm supposed to believe that she was smart enough to believe that the monster was Kryptonian but whatever, I was wondering if maybe a scene was cut of Alfred contacting her and telling her to retrieve it. No biggie, but it still stood out to me my first viewing, just reminded me of the nonsense of Lois making it over to that train station in record time at the end of MoS after seeing Supes/Zod crashing back to Earth from miles away.

- This has also been brought up but on 2nd viewing it's just ridiculous that Supes didn't continue trying to talk to Bruce during their fight. Superman shoves Bruce for whatever reason 50ft back after he screams in his face at the start of the fight. Then after destroying the gun turrets walks towards him without saying a word and then flies him through a building that could have killed him but in the end just gave Bruce more reason to try and put Supes down. Granted, I know we don't have our big fight if Bats calmly listens to Supes about the situation but I expected more, like Alfred being in Bruce's ear begging him to stop and listen and Bruce shutting off communication. It just seemed like Supes wanted to waste his time toying with Bruce instead of getting to the point of "Hey, my mother has been kidnapped and I only got about *checks watch* 45 minutes".

- Bruce has a dream within a knocked unconscious within a Knightmare. I don't know, just made me chuckle. To me, that's lazy, still an awesome sequence of events, but kind of lazy.

- Not really a question but man, on a second viewing you really see how out of place that metahumans montage is in the movie and Wonder Woman has like 3 costume changes in the span of the final Batman/Superman fight. First she's in a white suit (in a hotel lobby I guess) watching some news of the power surges in Metropolis), then a short scene happens elsewhere (I think Lex threatening Supes or Supes flying off to meet Batman after talking to Lois) and it cuts back to her in a bathrobe on her laptop reading the email from Bruce and watching the footage, then we have the BvS fight, and she's on a plane about to leave but decides to help. I wonder if that metahuman scene was meant to come earlier or something because it seems so out of place to me now.

 

[gdw]

JaD, regarding the public's percent of Superman's role in the Africa incident, their thing is not that Superman directly killed the people, and there were many innocent people killed, not just terrorist. It's that he acts unilaterally, AND of his own accord in matters that are affecting international affairs, AND said events are involving mass casualties.

The question the committee is attempting to answer is "if he hadn't of intervened, would there have been such an incident, and so much death?"

For his actions going off on his own intervening in/questionably causing a high casualty international incident, the committee found him responsible.

. . .
2. The Lois aspect, he saves her multiple times in MOS. Seen kissing her in MOS after he catches her. Lois, i am assuming has written about him so i imagine he tested that theory in Africa, superman showed so clearly he realized there was a connection there. How he knows hes Clark, well movie magic i guess. Hes obviously been studying other metas so im guessing he knows who everyone is.

. . .

If he can make connection from Superman to the reporter, and figure out she's Lois Lane, he probably also found out that she is living with this Clark Kent.

In MOS, they made the concession that Lois could figure out who he is, in BvS, I think they posit Lex is smart enough to, at this point, figure it out.

 

[JaD]

JaD, regarding the public's percent of Superman's role in the Africa incident, their thing is not that Superman directly killed the people, and there were many innocent people killed, not just terrorist. It's that he acts unilaterally, AND of his own accord in matters that are affecting international affairs, AND said events are involving mass casualties.

The question the committee is attempting to answer is "if he hadn't of intervened, would there have been such an incident, and so much death?"

For his actions going off on his own intervening in/questionably causing a high casualty international incident, the committee found him responsible.

Aww, that does clear things up a bit. I guess since the answer was so abundantly clear that the deaths had nothing to do with Superman because of the gun deaths and at least Lois being a witness I figured they wouldn't go as far as saying they hold him responsible. A missed opportunity to have Superman speak in front of the committee.

 

[NeoRanger]

- This has already been brought up but it's still bugging me, did the public really think Superman had something to do with those terrorists getting killed in the beginning of the movie? They all died from gunshot wounds and the only casualty on Supes' hand could have maybe been the warlord but we never find out if he died or not. It just seemed dumb to me that the public would think that Supes would kill multiple people with guns and even if the government covered up the cause of death for the people what's their reasoning for doing so when they clearly have inside info that someone or some group went rogue during that meeting (put the blame on him I guess?) and Superman showed up to help, because that's what he always does. He should have started an official Twitter account and answer to people there ha. I don't know, it made no sense to me. Even if it was a some big government conspiracy why wasn't it fleshed out more and why did they give him a huge military funeral in the end to honor him if there was something else going on. Edit: I see some of your answers above about this SuperAl, nice answer and I missed that the lady in the beginning was referring to Superman showing up during that particular attack. Still seems fishy that he could be blamed for that unless witnesses say they saw Superman gunning people down or spotted in the village at some point.

They don't think that he killed these villagers exactly, they blame him for showing up and causing panic, which led to the aggressors slaughtering the village. It's kind of an incident, the same reason that Swanwick won't go on record that an American private company had a hand in this, because it would cause an international incident. That's the point of Lois' "halo" conversation with Swanwick later, that Superman didn't kill anyone, but he shoved his nose where it didn't belong and so did Lois.

- I remember bringing up how I didn't know why Lois went back for the spear (and why the hell she tossed it in the first place) and someone mentioned that she may have overheard Batman talking about the spear but on 2nd viewing this is definitely not the case. Batman is flying in the Batwing towards the Doomsday chaos when he talks to Alfred about the spear and a scene or so after that Lois is randomly going back for the spear when she sees some stuff going on in the horizon. I guess I'm supposed to believe that she was smart enough to believe that the monster was Kryptonian but whatever, I was wondering if maybe a scene was cut of Alfred contacting her and telling her to retrieve it. No biggie, but it still stood out to me my first viewing, just reminded me of the nonsense of Lois making it over to that train station in record time at the end of MoS after seeing Supes/Zod crashing back to Earth from miles away.

It's not explained, it's dramatical convenience and the movie ****ed up there, you are quite right.

- This has also been brought up but on 2nd viewing it's just ridiculous that Supes didn't continue trying to talk to Bruce during their fight. Superman shoves Bruce for whatever reason 50ft back after he screams in his face at the start of the fight. Then after destroying the gun turrets walks towards him without saying a word and then flies him through a building that could have killed him but in the end just gave Bruce more reason to try and put Supes down. Granted, I know we don't have our big fight if Bats calmly listens to Supes about the situation but I expected more, like Alfred being in Bruce's ear begging him to stop and listen and Bruce shutting off communication. It just seemed like Supes wanted to waste his time toying with Bruce instead of getting to the point of "Hey, my mother has been kidnapped and I only got about *checks watch* 45 minutes".

It's badly framed. The idea is that Batman won't listen to him and is hell-bent on fighting him, so Superman proceeds to a show of strength to force him to stay down. A bit odd of a choice, maybe, but his point is "see, I don't want to fight you, I would've won already if I did, shut up and sit down so we can talk". Shortly after, the Kryptonite comes out.

- Not really a question but man, on a second viewing you really see how out of place that metahumans montage is in the movie and Wonder Woman has like 3 costume changes in the span of the final Batman/Superman fight. First she's in a white suit (in a hotel lobby I guess) watching some news of the power surges in Metropolis), then a short scene happens elsewhere (I think Lex threatening Supes or Supes flying off to meet Batman after talking to Lois) and it cuts back to her in a bathrobe on her laptop reading the email from Bruce and watching the footage, then we have the BvS fight, and she's on a plane about to leave but decides to help. I wonder if that metahuman scene was meant to come earlier or something because it seems so out of place to me now.

I had the exact same experience. I hope when the Ultimate Cut comes out, if it comes out and faneditors get the thing in their hands, they can fix this.

EDIT: That took longer than I expected to respond to, I see gwd answered already XD

 

[OutOfBoose]

- Not really a question but man, on a second viewing you really see how out of place that metahumans montage is in the movie and Wonder Woman has like 3 costume changes in the span of the final Batman/Superman fight. First she's in a white suit (in a hotel lobby I guess) watching some news of the power surges in Metropolis), then a short scene happens elsewhere (I think Lex threatening Supes or Supes flying off to meet Batman after talking to Lois) and it cuts back to her in a bathrobe on her laptop reading the email from Bruce and watching the footage, then we have the BvS fight, and she's on a plane about to leave but decides to help. I wonder if that metahuman scene was meant to come earlier or something because it seems so out of place to me now.

I don't get why it's out of place... I took it as what influenced her decision to vanish from the city, hence the plane scene later. But she changes her mind when she witnesses the destruction, caused by Doomsday.
As for her costume change - it makes sense. She returns to the hotel, takes shower, reads e-mail and then gets on a plane in a span of 1-2 hour. Nothing terrible about it.

The only problem I have with it - stupid logos.

 

[JaD]

I don't get why it's out of place... I took it as what influenced her decision to vanish from the city, hence the plane scene later. But she changes her mind when she witnesses the destruction, caused by Doomsday.
As for her costume change - it makes sense. She returns to the hotel, takes shower, reads e-mail and then gets on a plane in a span of 1-2 hour. Nothing terrible about it.

The only problem I have with it - stupid logos.

Well, I'm not just talking solely about the logic of it, that's fine for the most part but it ruins the flow of the movie at that point. Lex has just threatened Superman's mom and we cut to Diana checking the news out in her white dress, cuts to Supes telling Lois he has to face Batman and no one stays good in this world, then it cuts to her in a bath robe reading the email which is like a 3 minute scene, then later on the plane. The one in the middle feels very out of place when thinking of the gravity of what's happening with the main characters at that point.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I don't know. Didn't break the flow for me. I was on the edge of a seat at that moment. Completely absorbed. I guess, a bought that it's a big deal for Wonder Woman, that they may discover her origin.

 

[JaD]

I had the exact same experience. I hope when the Ultimate Cut comes out, if it comes out and faneditors get the thing in their hands, they can fix this.

Also, and I might have this mixed up at the moment but I know it's there. I think they ran into another edit problem with Lex on the Kryptonian ship learning the secrets. When he gains access to the Kryptonian ship early in the movie he walks on in slow motion wearing that light blue suit with the collar shirt on underneath. Then in that montage he's also shown in a white lab coat waiting for Zod's body which would show some time has passed.

They do cut back and forth to him making his demands to the politician which brings us to the present time I guess but about an hour later into the movie (right after the Capitol bombing) where it's been a long time from that first shot of him walking on in slow motion he's wearing that same suit and shirt when accessing the ship with Zod's fingerprints (that he cut off in the earlier montage) to learn the secrets which is then actually from earlier in the movie in being his first visit to the ship. I don't want to sound like I'm nitpicking but things like this show just how all over the place this movie is to me.

 

[JaD]

I don't know. Didn't break the flow for me. I was on the edge of a seat at that moment. Completely absorbed. I guess, a bought that it's a big deal for Wonder Woman, that they may discover her origin.

The first time around I was very excited too, not gonna lie. 2nd time around, it stuck out like a sore thumb to me. Like we took a Justice League commercial break just after we found out our main hero's mother's had been kidnapped aka s**t has hit the fan.

And agreed, the logos are pretty dumb . I wonder which LexCorp employee designed them

 

[Willi Berg]

Good questions. Here's mine...

I keep reading that Lex had daddy issues and this was his reason for hating Superman. I seem to have missed that. Can someone shed light on what he said.

When Lex is talking to Senator Finch early on, he says his dad was from East Germany and had to live on stale crackers, and every other Saturday had to march in a parade and wave flowers at tyrants. Lex sees Superman as a tyrant and thinks he's carrying on his dad's work, by stopping this tyrant (which is why he wants to import the kryptonite.) He also sees Superman as a god but later on talks about how god takes sides and God didn't intervene when his father beat him up as a child. So he is projecting a lot of his own issues on Superman.

I too have that first question but in a slightly different manner. I would like to know exactly who this Lex Luthor is. Is his father the real Lex Luthor and is this Alex Luthor Jr.? Is this the final Lex that we know and love or will his father have anything to do with Superman in the future? In the comics was his father's name Lex Luthor too or was it Lionel Luthor like in Smallville? I'm really confused about the father son Lex situation.

I believe it's just part of Lex's characterisation- he inherited this company from his father, he wants to carry on his father's name. He describes himself as an "orphan boy", seeming to miss his father and yet talks about being beaten up by him. He talks about his father's "abominations" towards him as a boy. So Lex is this sheltered rich kid, who had it easy in some ways, but who was also mistreated and has father issues. He has a lot to live up to with his father's name and company, while also being unhinged and traumatised.

The only problem I have with it - stupid logos.

I was listening to the Empire podcast and the interviewer brought up the logos to Zack, that Lex is the one to name the heroes. Zack said that he liked that because the superhero's names are very basic - "Aquaman" and "Wonder Woman" - they wouldn't name themselves that, the only way "Wonder Woman" would be named that would be someone trying to file info on her.

https://soundcloud.com/empiremagazine (around 13.10 mark - MAJOR SPOILERS)

 

[Jaxon]

1. Lois finally cracked Swanwhick to talk on the park bench while hounding him a few times. He mentions how the Government was in on it, but it's Government classified. Can't breach it. Lois tells him to squash the Superman story, he said he happens to like his job, so he's not allowed to say anything to put himself in danger.

2. It wasn't said specifically. I took it as the Government coverup and a crooked operation who want Superman dead. I got to focus more on Lex's specific scene if there was anything obviois.

It was that politician who gave Lex access to the scout ship and Zod who was doing the Superman framing from the government side of it.

 

[Charlie The Red]

My main question:

Why did the movie suck so bad?

 

[JaD]

Imagine if it was Mercy? At the start of the movie it almost seemed like she and Lex were having something going on.

All those nights snuggling up together, going over shady business deals together, collecting footage on meta humans, designing cute little logos for them to surprise Lex. [BLACKOUT]And then he blows your ass up at a senate hearing.[/BLACKOUT]

I was going to bring this up too. Lex was so cool with telling Mercy to go on ahead into the senate hearing Why did he need to kill her in the first place? Tie up loose ends I guess? We don't really see her in on his shady business. But that was cold. That whole senate hearing thing is depressing as hell anyways when you look at all the people in there the 2nd time around.

 

[Willi Berg]

Maybe she wasn't performing to expectations on Lex's basketball team.

That and she forgot to refill his candy bowl.

 

[Willi Berg]

Christ, that just put the image of Eisenberg and Okamoto swirling jolly ranchers around in eachother's mouths into my head.

You know they did.

 

[OutOfBoose]

I was listening to the Empire podcast and the interviewer brought up the logos to Zack, that Lex is the one to name the heroes. Zack said that he liked that because the superhero's names are very basic - "Aquaman" and "Wonder Woman" - they wouldn't name themselves that, the only way "Wonder Woman" would be named that would be someone trying to file info on her.

https://soundcloud.com/empiremagazine (around 13.10 mark - MAJOR SPOILERS)

If these logos somehow connected to the costumes (with logos) these superheroes wear on recorded footage - sure. But we don't see it in the film. It looks like Lex is brand designer for them. Poor judgement.

 

[NeoRanger]

I was going to bring this up too. Lex was so cool with telling Mercy to go on ahead into the senate hearing Why did he need to kill her in the first place? Tie up loose ends I guess? We don't really see her in on his shady business. But that was cold. That whole senate hearing thing is depressing as hell anyways when you look at all the people in there the 2nd time around.

Superman: Doomsday (ANOTHER movie about Lex bringing forth Doomsday and killing Superman, no less) desensitized me to killing Mercy. At least in BvS she's mostly a nod to fans and Lex is clearly insane. In Doomsday, she's competent until the guy plants a bullet between her eyes, expressly for the reason of tying up loose ends. Damn.

 

[Willi Berg]

If these logos somehow connected to the costumes (with logos) these superheroes wear on recorded footage - sure. But we don't see it in the film. It looks like Lex is brand designer for them. Poor judgement.

It is pat and too convenient.