Quick Captain Marvel question

Lord Doom

the hero Hype! deserves
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I'm not really a big Captain Marvel fan (although I'm starting to be), so I have a quick question for everyone: Does Billy Batson retain control of himself when he transforms into CM, or does CM have a sentient intelligence?
 
Billy is still in control, he's just transformed into the body of an adult man in his prime. That's part of Captain Marvel's whole gimmick, really. All of those powers with the mind of a teenager. Check out the JLU episode entitled "Clash", you'll see what I mean.
 
Billy is still in control, he's just transformed into the body of an adult man in his prime. That's part of Captain Marvel's whole gimmick, really. All of those powers with the mind of a teenager. Check out the JLU episode entitled "Clash", you'll see what I mean.
Thanks man!:up:
BTW: I'm getting a class ring with the Captain Marvel lightning bolt as a crest (so that way, whenever I get into a fight, I can say "SHAZAM!!" right before my ring connects with their face and it'll leave the lightning bolt mark on their faces!!), and I'm getting into Captain Marvel but I can't find any good issues to start off on. Could you or anyone else please tell me where a good place to start would be?
 
Thanks man!:up:
BTW: I'm getting a class ring with the Captain Marvel lightning bolt as a crest (so that way, whenever I get into a fight, I can say "SHAZAM!!" right before my ring connects with their face and it'll leave the lightning bolt mark on their faces!!), and I'm getting into Captain Marvel but I can't find any good issues to start off on. Could you or anyone else please tell me where a good place to start would be?

Well, Billy is actually in the first stages of replacement by Freddy Freeman, formerly Captain Marvel, Jr. Now that Shazam is gone, Billy is taking over his role in the Rock of Eternity, managing the Marvel Family's power and keeping the evil spirits and whatnot that are imprisoned there in check. But, if you're interested in catching up on some recent stuff, I'd say Day of Vengeance: Countdown to Infinite Crisis and Superman/Shazam: First Thunder are must-reads for any CM fan. If you're interested in the new material concerning Freddy's ascension to the mantle of Captain Marvel, pick up the Trials of Shazam mini-series, which is running right now.

And of course, if you want CLASSIC Captain Marvel stuff, it would be blasphemy to overlook the works of Alex Ross in Shazam: Power of Hope and Kingdom Come.
 
Well, Billy is actually in the first stages of replacement by Freddy Freeman, formerly Captain Marvel, Jr. Now that Shazam is gone, Billy is taking over his role in the Rock of Eternity, managing the Marvel Family's power and keeping the evil spirits and whatnot that are imprisoned there in check. But, if you're interested in catching up on some recent stuff, I'd say Day of Vengeance: Countdown to Infinite Crisis and Superman/Shazam: First Thunder are must-reads for any CM fan. If you're interested in the new material concerning Freddy's ascension to the mantle of Captain Marvel, pick up the Trials of Shazam mini-series, which is running right now.

And of course, if you want CLASSIC Captain Marvel stuff, it would be blasphemy to overlook the works of Alex Ross in Shazam: Power of Hope and Kingdom Come.
Thanks, dude! I really appreciate it.:up:
 
It is good to hear Cap's getting some much deserved recognition.
I would say Jerry Ordway's "The Power of Shazam" graphic novel is a must read also (it's the the origin story of current continuity).
 
^ They made a GN about him? Cool! I LOVE GNs!
 
Billy is still in control, he's just transformed into the body of an adult man in his prime. That's part of Captain Marvel's whole gimmick, really. All of those powers with the mind of a teenager. Check out the JLU episode entitled "Clash", you'll see what I mean.

That's not entirely true, he is still Billy but he has the Wisdom of Solomon, thus the S in SHAZAM. He also has clairvoyance, knowledge of almost anything and is counseled by the Solomon. So he is probably the smartest and wisest human in the world when he is Captain Marvel and has direct access to the god of Wisdom. The JLU episode is out of character of the traditional take on Captain Marvel.

The gimmick isn't that a kid is running around with superpowers acting like a kid... it's that a character that is the epitome of Solomon/Wisdom, Hercules/Strength, Atlas/Power, Zeus/Stamina, Achilles/Courage, and Mercury/Speed/Magical skill is actually just a boy when he's not Captain Marvel.
 
^Hnn. It really depends on the incarnation that you're talking about.

In most post-Crisis presentations of Captain Marvel (the entirety of Jeff Ordway's run and Geoff Johns' depiction in JSA, basically), Billy Batson does indeed have the wisdom of Solomon when he transforms, but it's still the wisdom of Solomon as interpreted by a child. He could interpret it in childish ways, he could interpret it wrongfully, or he could even ignore it outright if he chose to. He doesn't, for instance, have the personality of Solomon; he's still quite outgoing and optimistic and wide-eyed as a adolescent might be, as evidenced by his frequent usage of "Gee whiz," "Holy moley," and other dated phrases (which is also due to the fact that Fawcett City is generally a pretty dated, old-fashioned city).

But I understand that this was much less the case in pre-Crisis versions of Captain Marvel and some post-Crisis versions. In these cases, Captain Marvel does come across as an adult man with more adult sensabilities.

It all depends on the writer. For instance, Jeff Smith's version of Captain Marvel -- that was seen recently in his Monster Society of Evil series -- however, is an actual, separate personality from Billy Batson. The essence of "Captain Marvel" has existed before Billy ever met the Wizard; Billy is his host and his originator in this era, but the two of them speak of each other as different people and even has memories that the other does not share.
 
^Hnn. It really depends on the incarnation that you're talking about.

In most post-Crisis presentations of Captain Marvel (the entirety of Jeff Ordway's run and Geoff Johns' depiction in JSA, basically), Billy Batson does indeed have the wisdom of Solomon when he transforms, but it's still the wisdom of Solomon as interpreted by a child. He could interpret it in childish ways, he could interpret it wrongfully, or he could even ignore it outright if he chose to. He doesn't, for instance, have the personality of Solomon; he's still quite outgoing and optimistic and wide-eyed as a adolescent might be, as evidenced by his frequent usage of "Gee whiz," "Holy moley," and other dated phrases (which is also due to the fact that Fawcett City is generally a pretty dated, old-fashioned city).

But I understand that this was much less the case in pre-Crisis versions of Captain Marvel and some post-Crisis versions. In these cases, Captain Marvel does come across as an adult man with more adult sensabilities.

It all depends on the writer. For instance, Jeff Smith's version of Captain Marvel -- that was seen recently in his Monster Society of Evil series -- however, is an actual, separate personality from Billy Batson. The essence of "Captain Marvel" has existed before Billy ever met the Wizard; Billy is his host and his originator in this era, but the two of them speak of each other as different people and even has memories that the other does not share.

Until the Ordway and Johns runs he was always like Smith depicts him. They were two separate people. In an older W's or 80's story they actually meet. The whole Billy being a conscious part of CM is relatively new to the character. He wasn't that way in Fawcett or DC prior to Ordway and Johns, n the TV series and movie they were two separate beings.

Also the separate thing is strengthened by the fact that Black Adam didn't have to go to jail because he and Theo were two separate beings and even had different fingerprints.

Even when portrayed as both being Billy, and even Billy as a little kid... he would still have the Wisdom of the god of knowledge and Wisdom and that would supersede his thinking like a ten year old.

I love Smith's portrayal and was reading somewhere that his origin retcons the previous ones, which is cool.
 
In Black Adam and Theo's case, they were two separate beings. Black Adam was just an empowered Teth-Adam. Theo was his descendant who managed to become bonded to him. I don't remember why Theo's mind was in control of Black Adam's body for a while, though. Since then, Theo died of a brain tumor and Black Adam's had complete control of both bodies.
 
No problem. That's what we hypesters are here for, help each other out. Have fun reading, I know I did.
Dude, you are way different than most of the other people that I've run across on this board.
 
The dichotomy of Billy and Cap seemed to be rather ambiguous to me pre-Crisis. I do remember a story though in All-Star Squadron #36 & #37 where Adolf Hitler separated Cap and Billy into 2 separate beings (similar to what was done in the Hulk series with Banner).
I prefer Billy and Cap being one and the same. Cap 's image being created by Billy as his father's likeness was brilliant and that's the way Ross portrayed him in Kingdom Come. It doesn't get any better than that. I found Smith's mini a disappointment, I could take it or leave and I really do not see this as a retcon for Ordway's superior version. I'm still on the fence about the latest developments (if they ever get it finished).
What does everyone think about Atlas being out and Apollo being added?
 
Awkward at best and ludicrously shortsighted at worst. His depiction of Apollo was fine, but...Apollo as the granter of stamina? Really? Did Winick even think this through? It seems like he just needed another god whose name started with "A" and just threw darts at a chalkboard to decide or something.
 
I think having Billy be Cap is the better idea; it gives the character more distinctiveness.
 
The dichotomy of Billy and Cap seemed to be rather ambiguous to me pre-Crisis. I do remember a story though in All-Star Squadron #36 & #37 where Adolf Hitler separated Cap and Billy into 2 separate beings (similar to what was done in the Hulk series with Banner).
I prefer Billy and Cap being one and the same. Cap 's image being created by Billy as his father's likeness was brilliant and that's the way Ross portrayed him in Kingdom Come. It doesn't get any better than that. I found Smith's mini a disappointment, I could take it or leave and I really do not see this as a retcon for Ordway's superior version. I'm still on the fence about the latest developments (if they ever get it finished).
What does everyone think about Atlas being out and Apollo being added?

I was thinking it was Ordway and Johns that changed Cap and Billy being one person, but the owner of my local comic shop says the change was made by Captain Retcon AKA Roy Thomas. So Fawcett was always two seperate characters and DC was from 1973-1987. I'm glad Smith made the change back, and I hope it sticks. I had quit reading comics around 87 and when I came back I was too confused with all the DC changes... I just stayed with Marvel and indies. I recently started reading DC again and then saw the JLU "Clash" episode and couldn't believe I was watching Cap. I have no problem with Billy being Cap as long as he doesn't act like a little kid. He still has the wisdom of Solomon.

The Atlas thing is horrible. Unless they plan to give Cap the gift of prophecy and eternal youth Apollo wasn't a good choice.
 
In the Trials of Shazam Freddy calls Cap Billy so apparently it is Billy in there. I honestly don't know how long this could last with Billy as the Wizard.....
maybe till the next crisis.:woot:
 
I like Billy and Marvel as the same person. If Captain Marvel is a separate personality who's a perfect adult, he's a Superman clone and thus boring. If he's a man with a child's mind (made a lot more competent by the wisdom of Solomon, granted), he's more unique and interesting.
 
Thanks man!:up:
BTW: I'm getting a class ring with the Captain Marvel lightning bolt as a crest (so that way, whenever I get into a fight, I can say "SHAZAM!!" right before my ring connects with their face and it'll leave the lightning bolt mark on their faces!!), and I'm getting into Captain Marvel but I can't find any good issues to start off on. Could you or anyone else please tell me where a good place to start would be?

Let those who worship evils might beware your power.... oh wait wrong ring. :D
 
I like Billy and Marvel as the same person. If Captain Marvel is a separate personality who's a perfect adult, he's a Superman clone and thus boring. If he's a man with a child's mind (made a lot more competent by the wisdom of Solomon, granted), he's more unique and interesting.

I agree but he changes drastically depending on writers.

Oh, for the guy getting into it check out:

Graphic Novels:

Shazam/Supes: First Thunder
Shazam Power of Hope
Kingdom Come (not exclusive Cap. story, but he's a major character)
Justice (same deal as above)

Books:

I was loving Monster Society of Evil, but it ended badly. Still the first two issues have great charactization.
 
In Black Adam and Theo's case, they were two separate beings. Black Adam was just an empowered Teth-Adam. Theo was his descendant who managed to become bonded to him. I don't remember why Theo's mind was in control of Black Adam's body for a while, though. Since then, Theo died of a brain tumor and Black Adam's had complete control of both bodies.

And he wears a cool pair of boots.
 
I think Mary had sandals or slippers or something when she first appeared. I know...what were they thinking, right?
 
Yeah, Mary's had a few minor makeovers over the years. I actually have an original copy of her first appearance in Captain Marvel Adventures #18.
 

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