Random Comic Stuff

The Hero said:
So.....uh...........are there any current Marvel comics that you do like?

Depends on the definition of 'like'.

In certain respects I guess you could say that I 'like' them all.

That is what most people don't get about my posts.

If I didn't 'like' a title, I'd just shut up and not ever make a comment one eay or another.

Or as people often suggest to me, 'vote with your wallet'. I do. I do not buy any comics that I don't 'like'. That would make me a fool. You know what they say about a fool and his money, right?

But what Marvel Comics do I really 'like'?

What like my top three?

Okay.

Astonishing. I haven't seen the X-Men written so well since, damn, well since, Claremont/Byrne. Whedon's got the character interactions pretty much down, although the Cyclops/White Queen thing just bugs me. But that's a leftover from Morrison that we have to deal with until someone writes it out of there.

FF. Waid has breathed life back into Marvel's First Family that was missing since before the Defalco run.

DD. Bendis greatness on DD comes in spurts. Good arc. Bad arc. Exciting arc. Fill-in arc. The great stuff every fourth month is worth putting up with the three months of mediocre stuff.

Normally, I enjoy Hulk, Iron Man, Cap, Thor, & Avengers. I haven't missed issues of any of those in years. Their current series are pretty much all being killed off/cancelled/&relaunched and honestly I'm considering just ending my love for those characters right there. That my friend is exactly why I've been up in arms lately. Not because I hate something as much as because things that I 'like' are being discarded like yesterday's trash.
 
newnoiseimage said:
never been to a con and dont know if i will. can you get good deals on the keys? the SA holy grails? otehrwise its a wash for me.
There are two types of vendors that sell at the cons:

The ones who know exactly what they have and how much it's "worth"...

And the ones who don't know and just want to get rid of them.

This differences is usually obvious by the price tags on their comics.

I'm a bargain shopper.

I'm looking for the low-priced deals on the keys and the holy grails.

I buy some crap too, mainly because I'm a completist. But I rarely pay cover price.
 
Gambit8370 said:
Depends on the definition of 'like'.

In certain respects I guess you could say that I 'like' them all.

That is what most people don't get about my posts.

If I didn't 'like' a title, I'd just shut up and not ever make a comment one eay or another.

Or as people often suggest to me, 'vote with your wallet'. I do. I do not buy any comics that I don't 'like'. That would make me a fool. You know what they say about a fool and his money, right?

But what Marvel Comics do I really 'like'?

What like my top three?

Okay.

Astonishing. I haven't seen the X-Men written so well since, damn, well since, Claremont/Byrne. Whedon's got the character interactions pretty much down, although the Cyclops/White Queen thing just bugs me. But that's a leftover from Morrison that we have to deal with until someone writes it out of there.

FF. Waid has breathed life back into Marvel's First Family that was missing since before the Defalco run.

DD. Bendis greatness on DD comes in spurts. Good arc. Bad arc. Exciting arc. Fill-in arc. The great stuff every fourth month is worth putting up with the three months of mediocre stuff.

Normally, I enjoy Hulk, Iron Man, Cap, Thor, & Avengers. I haven't missed issues of any of those in years. Their current series are pretty much all being killed off/cancelled/&relaunched and honestly I'm considering just ending my love for those characters right there. That my friend is exactly why I've been up in arms lately. Not because I hate something as much as because things that I 'like' are being discarded like yesterday's trash.
Bubaker's Cap looks good.:o
 
Good/Entertaining Article about Comic Writers.

http://www.ninthart.com/display.php?article=932

Excerpt:
Yeah, as jobs go, writing comics is a pretty easy gig. There are pressures, there are obstacles, and you're still answerable to your editors, your publishers, your audience and your bank manager, but it's a job you choose, not one that you take just to pay the bills, and it's a job where you create, not one where you get fired for daydreaming in the office.

OK, so it's not quite as good as being eleventh in line to the throne, or the heir to an international hotel chain; you still have to work for a living, and even if you work really hard, you're unlikely to ever make your fortune. But anyone who does write comics for a living has at least one good reason to be cheerful.

Which begs the question; why does such a good job produce so many prissy, pissy, egotistical prima donnas?

If you read comics long enough, you'll see the transformation take place. People who start out grateful for a break and eager to prove themselves slowly evolve into stompy, stroppy, self-important stage school brats. And if you really pay attention, you'll see the signs. The seven habits of defective comic writers. And that includes the writer/artists. And a lot of the artists, too. And the inkers. And most of the editors, now I come to think of it.
 
being a subscriber to Entertainment Weekly i occasionally read it (the sub is for someone else) over the last 2-3 months i have seen 3 comics featured in their "whats hot" list. Identity Crisis, Ex-Machina, and most recently Loki.
not bad for our hobby.
 
The Hero said:
My neck hurts from agreeing too much.:(

No,it doesn't.But still.:o

I know what you mean.

When you put couple it with this article, it gives a very different perspective on comic writers.

Gambit8370, did you read these? They're right up your alley.
 
DBM said:
I know what you mean.

When you put couple it with this article, it gives a very different perspective on comic writers.

Gambit8370, did you read these? They're right up your alley.

No not yet, checking it out now...
 
Those were pretty good. I think I found a new sig.

The thing I don't get is why in God's name do I still want to become a comic book writer someday?

Maybe I must become that which I hate in order to drive out the demons in my own soul.
 
Gambit8370 said:
Those were pretty good. I think I found a new sig.

The thing I don't get is why in God's name do I still want to become a comic book writer someday?

Maybe I must become that which I hate in order to drive out the demons in my own soul.

Maybe you just enjoy punishing yourself. I hear flagellation works well too.
 
newnoiseimage said:
she shouldnt talk with her mouth full.












too far? ;)
He must've wrestled the chocolate truffles from her death-grip...

Kidding honey if you ever read this...

Not that you'd ever condescend to ever take an interest in my comic book interests or my message board antics.
 
Gambit8370 said:
He must've wrestled the chocolate truffles from her death-grip...

Kidding honey if you ever read this...

Not that you'd ever condescend to ever take an interest in my comic book interests or my message board antics.

I can understand that though.

Chocolate truffles are frikkin good.

Oh, and Mrs. Gambit8370, we didn't really mean you're a ****.

Just in case she ever reads this, I've got your back Gambit8370.
 
The Hero said:

That's a good one. I read it before.

Elijya, are you looking at that site with something other than IE? I find that I can't read it using Firefox sometimes. Try IE and see if you can.

Just in case you can't I'll post it anyway.

Forget The Kids... Market Comics To Adults

By Buddy Scalera
Print This Item

Forget the kids. Seriously, it’s a lost cause. Forget ‘em.

If we continue marketing comics to kids, we’re surely doomed.

First, a very quick background. Hang in there, this has a point…

Most creators, publishers, retailers, and other industry professionals grew up reading comic books. We remember buying comics on the newsstand, and then later at specialty shops. It was a great time because comics – compared to other forms of entertainment – were cheap.

And everyone at that time knew…comics were for kids. Period.

As the 80s rolled in, a new wave of creators helped comics mature. Vertigo and the independent comics offered some sophisticated literature, which expanded dramatically in the 90s.

The mass media followed our industry lead. The new mantra became: “comics aren’t just for kids anymore.” (Many articles started off with the obligatory “pow, bang, comics aren’t just for kids anymore” lead. While that was cute for a little while, it’s just downright annoying now.)

Note that in the last paragraph, I say that the mass media followed OUR lead. That’s right. Us. We. The industry professionals. They listened to our message which was, if you were paying attention, “pow, bang, comics aren’t just for kids anymore.”

The good news: our message got through. Yay.
The bad news: our message got through. Uh oh.
Want to know WHY that’s bad news? Well, it’s clear that parents stopped buying comics for kids.

As a father, I don’t buy products for my daughter that are clearly marketed toward adults. I buy my kid products specifically designed for children like Barney, Elmo, and The Wiggles.

That’s where the mixed marketing message screwed us up. We wanted the rest of the world to respect the art form of comic books. So we reconfigured our marketing message to attract adults, which it did. Many more adults are aware of the fact that comic books are often written for mature minds.

But we still hear many people say that we need more kids reading comic books. WRONG.

We LOST a generation of kids to video games and the Internet. And they’re NOT coming back to comics. They have enough distractions.

My idea (I told you there would be a point to all of this) is to market comic books to adults, almost exclusively. That is, emulate mass-market publishers and book retailers. Turn comic books into an adult hobby.

If you walk into Barnes and Nobles, you can assume that MOST of the books are written for adults. There are sections for Business, Health, Fiction, Automobiles, etc. Then there is a SPECIFIC AREA for kids.

And yet…people walk into a comic book store and assume that the products are mainly for kids. And that they have to look for the product geared toward adults. This is wrong.

Kids don’t have money. Yes, yes, I know, kids have some money, but not compared to adults who work full-time jobs. Adults control most of the big cash in the real world, so it makes sense to market your products clearly and consistently to them.

Let’s stop marketing comic books half to kids and half to adults. Let’s market comic books to adults. Let’s get more adults reading good, intelligent, mature stories. Then let’s rope off a section in the comic book store that is geared towards children.

Market dirty books to adults, and kids will want them.
Market automobiles to adults, and kids will want them.
Market R movies to adults, and kids will want them.
Market Rated-M-for-Mature video games to adults, and kids will want them.
And….

Market comics to adults, and kids will want to read comics.

Look, it works for big publishers and mainstream bookstores, it will work for us. People make their decision based on where books are racked. Unless otherwise specified, most new books are marketed to adults. These books are racked in the main part of the store. This is true for fiction and nonfiction. If a new Stephen King novel comes out, you know that it’s probably intended for adults, right? If a new book on business etiquette comes out, you know that too is intended for adults. Same with politics, science, history, etc. All racked in the main (or adult) part of the store. The mainstream retail bookstore is an adult environment. Family friendly, yes, but definitely designed, decorated, and marketed to adults with adult prices.

Books specifically geared toward kids are racked in the children’s section. Plain and simple. It’s an easy purchase because parents know that they can trust that section of the store to carry age-appropriate stories. The children’s section of a mainstream bookstore is designed, decorated, and marketed with colors and displays for kids.

Mainstream retailers know that you need to market product separately for children and adults. The marketing message of Toys R Us is much different than Starbucks.

And yet comic stores must straddle the line and market the EXACT SAME PRODUCT to both kids and adults. Imagine how a 35-year-old man may feel when he’s buying the same comics as an 11-year-old boy.

As a child matures to pre-teen and teen stories, a parent gives the child some latitude to select their own books. Often, these books come from a line of books marketed specifically to the teen bracket.

As the teen grows into his or her adult years, not only do they graduate primary school, they graduate to adult literature. They want to read adult books, not censored, watered-down, “safe” books. They want the “good stuff.”

We see this in Hollywood too. Kids go from Rated G, to PG, to PG-13, to R. Getting into an R film is a big deal for most kids. They WANT to see the adult films.

Given a choice, most teenagers would rather go see Terminator 3 (Rated R) than Spy Kids (Rated PG). Why? Well, duh, if you’re a self-respecting teenager, the only reason you’re seeing Spy Kids is as a babysitter. You go see Terminator 3 with your friends. Because that’s how we market and advertise those films.

But comic books…gee…we want to market comic books so that an 11-year-old boy, a 20-year-old guy, and a 31-year-old man can buy the same issue of Avengers. All three age groups may enjoy the Avengers story…but the 31-year-old and the 20-year-old don’t want to be perceived as immature for reading a story aimed at an 11-year-old boy.

Stated more simply, the 11-year-old boy may want to emulate the maturity of the 20-year-old man by reading mature literature. But the 20- or 31-year-olds do NOT want to be reading stuff geared toward 11-year-olds.

Again, if we marketed comic books specifically to adults, we would start to remove the stigma for older readers. It would be okay for that 31-year-old guy to read comics in public. It would be assumed that he was reading a mature-level comic.

And if someone saw that 11-year old boy reading a comic, people would assume that the kid was reading either (a) something appropriate to his age or (b) something beyond his age.

But marketing the same product to everybody is not working. Hell, even Harry Potter – proudly read by MANY adults – is still marketed to kids. Adults may choose to read Harry Potter because it’s the “in” thing. But I doubt many of those same people are running out to read Sweet Valley High.

That is, adults don’t want to read ALL kids books, just Harry Potter because it’s special.

Marvel and DC now publish books that are generally adult, yet accessible to teens. For some reason, we persist in marketing these comics to kids. As a result, a huggggge majority of adult readers assume that they have outgrown comics. Don’t believe me? Take a look at Barnes and Nobles on a Saturday night. Lots of adults browsing and buying books. Adults can be seen buying books for themselves and for their kids, but they’re probably not the same books.

Let’s market comics to adults. We’ll continue to make comics for kids, but let’s make kids want to graduate to adult comics. Let’s create the mystique that better, more mature comics are just around the corner.

The kids reading Harry Potter today are going to graduate to Sweet Valley High, then to books by Stephen King, Dean R. Koontz, and others.

With comics, we can guide kids through the same path. A kid today can graduate from Archie to Batman Adventures to Avengers to Batman to Daredevil to Vertigo and other mature books. It’s a natural path and they can continue to read kid-safe titles, if they want.

But for now, forget the kids. They’re off doing other kid things. Let’s concentrate on making comics into an adult hobby by changing how the rest of the world perceives this form of media. Repositioning comic books as an adult art form will extend an invitation to adult shoppers.

Most importantly, adults interested in comic books will find themselves surrounded by other adults….rather than children.



Buddy Scalera is a freelance comic book writer with credits at Marvel and several independents. He is the publisher of Visual Reference for Comic Artists and Necrotic.
 
newnoiseimage said:
being a subscriber to Entertainment Weekly i occasionally read it (the sub is for someone else) over the last 2-3 months i have seen 3 comics featured in their "whats hot" list. Identity Crisis, Ex-Machina, and most recently Loki.
not bad for our hobby.

They also mentioned Y the Last Man a while back.
 
Seems like this thread is often me posting a link that I think is interesting. But I'll continue to do it.

Here's a link the the Tilting at Windmills column at Newsarama. If you aren't reading it you should. It's a column about the comic industry written by an actual retailer. It's really interesting stuff. The newest column is about ordering comics from Diamond and how he determines the amout he orders.

What I find really interesting is this section.

Then come the What If…? Books. This sounds sorta like a neat idea, but, ****, they all come out in one week. That’s a nasty mistake. Why? Because I have to consider them as a set, with less attention paid to their individual merit because that is how the customers will view them. Plus they’re not even coming out in a “dead” week – Avengers and Iron Man #2 both ship then as well as Ultimate Secret #1. Yikes!

If I had to order What if Jessica Jones had joined The Avengers? by Bendis and Gaydos as What if…? #1 of a new monthly series, I’d probably have ordered 70 copies. As part of 8 books in an already crowded Marvel week, during the last week of the month when every small publisher ships everything so as not to be late? No, 40 copies then. If subs come in high, I’ll re-evaluate that, but I don’t want to be caught with leftover stacks if this bombs.

What if Karen Page Had Lived? could have been a 60 copy book, downgrading to 35. The rest seem mediocre, 15-20 copies each.

This is something I didn't understand either when Marvel solicited the new What ifs? Why would they do them all in one week. Here's a retailer himself who says he would have bought significantly more issues if they had been spread out over time. And I think the actual customers would have done the same. I know buying an additional 8 books in one week is going to put a major dent in my comic budget.

This just seems like really poor marketing on Marvel's part.
 
I am... perplexed... by their logic on this as well.

They did the same thing with the 2099 books, which honestly, I said PFFT... I can do without.

I would normally be pretty damn excited about a new What If? series.

But this, IMO, is just not the right way to go about it.



(Does it sound like I'm holding back? I am.)
 
Gambit8370 said:
(Does it sound like I'm holding back? I am.)

Bah, don't hold back.

I think, as the columnist mentioned, that this would have been much better as an ongoing series, or at the very least add 4 more issues and make a maxi-series. The only reason I can think of them not doing this is that they think there isn't a market for the What if?s. Unfortunately by releasing them like this they may create the illusion that there isn't a market, just because people can't afford to buy them all at once.
 

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