Justice League Ray Fisher - WB Investigation Updates Thread

[TheVileOne]

No one thinks Joss wasn’t a massive tool. Whedon’s own fans have thought he was an utter **** for years. Some of Fisher’s accusations hold water, some are more ambiguous and have an aura of extreme personal bias around them, there’s nuance.

The reason I believe Charisma Carpenter's claims about Joss Whedon is because she provided very specific allegations and examples. Also...it's a story that had been around for years. It was one of those sad sort of open secrets that got openly talked about for a long time. People who are fans of the show have known about it for a long time. I wasn't even a fan of Buffy or Angel, but I saw people discuss this story on this forum. The story has been reported on and commented in the press. Now, was there an air of, we don't really know the real story of what happened? Yes. I had also assumed whatever grievances there were between the two were past and they worked things out. Like Whedon had screwed up or he did make amends to some degree and worked things out with Carpenter as she later said she'd be willing to work with him again.

But you can clearly see there was something off with the storyline with Cordy in Angel and where things ended with her character.

Coupled with the allegations and open letter from his ex-wife, there just definitely seems to be a pattern of behavior there.

 

[Eddie Dean]

There were Africans and Asian armies in the flashback sequence in Snyder’s version? I honestly don’t remember seeing them but there was a lot going on in that scene.

Anyway, yeah... I think there is an argument to be made for some of Silas Stone’s and maybe Choi’s scenes being included in the final version. I was surprised by how much Joe Morton was in this version; didn’t realize his role was so big. And I also understand including Victor’s origin and thus the actress who played his mother. But Clemons and the whole Flash scene... none of that was needed and all it did was make Barry come off like an idiot and a creep. And yeah, it’s especially jarring when Barry is acting like this goofball, and then is all sad and serious in the scene with his dad, and then he’s right back to being an imbecile when Batman shows up.

Snyder definitely highlighted black and Asian women in Themyscira in a way Whedon didn't.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Snyder definitely highlighted black and Asian women in Themyscira in a way Whedon didn't.

Yeah, he definitely did there. But were there actual African and Asian armies in the big battle? That's what I was asking about. I may have missed them.

 

[Eddie Dean]

There's defiantly Genghis Khan costumed guys in the big battle

 

[heatvision38]

Yeah, he definitely did there. But were there actual African and Asian armies in the big battle? That's what I was asking about. I may have missed them.

Yes to both. I don't know what the technical term would be (pre-dates Mongols, I think), but there was a Chinese army and what I assume is an African army (don't know, this was like 5,000 years ago).

 

[Deck Rickard]

Huh. Totally missed that. Not sure how. Thanks!

 

[heatvision38]

Huh. Totally missed that. Not sure how. Thanks!

Some of it's pretty quick and there is a lot of details in those shots. I just checked it out to make sure I wasn't misrembering and I only now noticed that the Green Lantern was literally right next to the gods at the outset of the battle and was so much taller than the humans. In my first two full viewings (and a couple of times since then watching that specific scene), it always seemed like he came out of nowhere.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Some of it's pretty quick and there is a lot of details in those shots. I just checked it out to make sure I wasn't misrembering and I only now noticed that the Green Lantern was literally right next to the gods at the outset of the battle and was so much taller than the humans. In my first two full viewings (and a couple of times since then watching that specific scene), it always seemed like he came out of nowhere.

I didn’t notice that either, and I had no idea he was tall. I thought GL was baboon sized, I guess just because he looked like a baboon to me.

 

[metaphysician]

Ike Perlmutter, is that you?

Hey, don't mistake my bitter comment for approval. I *liked* the Bane/Talia twist just fine. I just am extremely cynical about the dislike of TDKR.

Its why I kind of wish the original script outline was used for Iron Man 3. . . but also expect people would have hated that one *even more*.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Walter happens to be a person of color, so he knows what that feels like.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Isn't Keanu a person of color too.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Isn't Keanu a person of color too.

Indeed he is. And I feel he too would give Sarnoff a side-eye for that remark.

 

[TheVileOne]

Sorry, but I don't see how showing a bunch of extras in a giant CG battle is this super progressive pat you on the back moment.

It's like when everyone was patting Spider-Man Homecoming on the back for having such a "diverse" supporting cast. Yeah key word, SUPPORTING. Instead of making a new Spider-Man movie with a POC lead like Miles Morales instead of going with the traditional, white male cisgendered Spider-Man.

 

[TheVileOne]

Indeed he is. And I feel he too would give Sarnoff a side-eye for that remark.

He wouldn't deserve to after starring in 47 Ronin.

 

[Predator jp]

47 Ronin reminded us the fact that Hollywood don't know the difference between Japanese and Chinese.

 

[KalvinEllis]

47 Ronin reminded us the fact that Hollywood don't know the difference between Japanese and Chinese.

Yet they had Robert Duvall's character in Falling Down being mocked for not being able to differentiate a Japanese person from Korean(meanwhile the actor who played the Korean character was Chinese and the one playing Duvall's Japanese co-worker was in fact Korean). All the while his character had the rather unpleasant sounding name "Prendergast".

I had forgotten how epic that movie was by the way. Social commentary was so on point and aged really well. One of my favorite Douglas roles.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Sorry, but I don't see how showing a bunch of extras in a giant CG battle is this super progressive pat you on the back moment.

It's like when everyone was patting Spider-Man Homecoming on the back for having such a "diverse" supporting cast. Yeah key word, SUPPORTING. Instead of making a new Spider-Man movie with a POC lead like Miles Morales instead of going with the traditional, white male cisgendered Spider-Man.

Snyder overall gave his BIPOC cast members a lot more to do. Well beyond the Themyscira battle. I don't know how anyone can deny that.

He wouldn't deserve to after starring in 47 Ronin.

He's still a BIPOC.

 

[TheVileOne]

Snyder overall gave his BIPOC cast members a lot more to do. Well beyond the Themyscira battle. I don't know how anyone can deny that.

So did Geoff Johns. He made Cyborg a member of the New 52 Justice League. It was his lineup that the movie went with for the film.

He's still a BIPOC.

OK and since when has diversity and inclusion been a major issue Keanu Reeves has been outspoken about in his career? He starred in 47 Ronin which is exemplary of Hollywood's worst tendencies while dealing with Asian culture.

 

[spideyfan77]

Snyder overall gave his BIPOC cast members a lot more to do. Well beyond the Themyscira battle. I don't know how anyone can deny that.



He's still a BIPOC.

I agree but if a studio told you to cut this movie down to below 2 hours.....how are you doing that? It makes sense to cut what he cut to maintain the overall story. I understand what he cut and why he cut it. I dont think it had anything to do with race.

 

[Predator jp]

Yet they had Robert Duvall's character in Falling Down being mocked for not being able to differentiate a Japanese person from Korean(meanwhile the actor who played the Korean character was Chinese and the one playing Duvall's Japanese co-worker was in fact Korean). All the while his character had the rather unpleasant sounding name "Prendergast".

i'm talking about costumes and architectures. heck, we are the first ones to admit we all look alike, more often than not even us Asians can't tell the difference lol

but considering the fact that 47 Ronin is based on true historical events they should've done better with costumes and architectures.

 

[Da-Scribe]

OK and since when has diversity and inclusion been a major issue Keanu Reeves has been outspoken about in his career? He starred in 47 Ronin which is exemplary of Hollywood's worst tendencies while dealing with Asian culture.

I never said it was. I just used him for a reaction gif. Then Kalvin said he was a person of color and I confirmed that along with a joke. You being the agent of chaos that you are came in here trying to diminish his BIPOC identity over a dumb movie.

I agree but if a studio told you to cut this movie down to below 2 hours.....how are you doing that? It makes sense to cut what he cut to maintain the overall story. I understand what he cut and why he cut it. I dont think it had anything to do with race.

But the cuts didn't help the story at all. And it's not like all Joss did was cut stuff. He added in the infamous Supes cell scene, the Batman scene with the robber, and the Supes/Flash race. None of these scenes added anything to the plot and all of them were focused around white folks.

There's no realm where I will believe there weren't other ways to hit the 2-hour mandate that didn't strip all of the minorites out. Would it have still been bad? Yes, probably. But I don't believe at all that what Joss put out there was the best of the bad options.

 

[Schlosser85]

Sorry, but I don't see how showing a bunch of extras in a giant CG battle is this super progressive pat you on the back moment.

It's like when everyone was patting Spider-Man Homecoming on the back for having such a "diverse" supporting cast. Yeah key word, SUPPORTING. Instead of making a new Spider-Man movie with a POC lead like Miles Morales instead of going with the traditional, white male cisgendered Spider-Man.

So we should make a POC Spider-Man just because?

 

[Schlosser85]

47 Ronin reminded us the fact that Hollywood don't know the difference between Japanese and Chinese.

Hollywood used to have a weird thing about treating Russians and Germans interchangeably which are absolutely nothing alike.

 

[TheVileOne]

So we should make a POC Spider-Man just because?

I mean yes? Here's my point. If diversity and inclusion are so important, and we have an existing, established and popular Spider-Man character who is a person of color, and if we are trying to embrace these ideas on cinema now, then yes, make the new Spider-Man, the STARRING ROLE, a person of color who already exists as a person of color in the comics.

Making Peter's supporting cast diverse is not this bold, courageous move. I'm sorry it's not. In today's climate, making a live-action Spider-Man movie where the starring character is Miles Morales would've been the more noteworthy move.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Hey, don't mistake my bitter comment for approval. I *liked* the Bane/Talia twist just fine. I just am extremely cynical about the dislike of TDKR.

Its why I kind of wish the original script outline was used for Iron Man 3. . . but also expect people would have hated that one *even more*.

Oh I know, don’t worry hahaha. That’s why I did the winking smiley face there. And yeah... IM3 is one of my least favorite Marvel films; not just for that reason but it’s infuriating how much they wasted Rebecca Hall (who is awesome) thanks to Permutter being an awful human being.