Justice League Ray Fisher - WB Investigation Updates Thread

[KalvinEllis]

Obviously the circumstances are different but the principle is still the same. A clear dereliction of duty is in play; and it seems to me like there's a lot of unconscious bias going on and some people have no grasp of what leadership and management entails. To trivialise, make light of and discredit the gravity of Fisher's position is just vehement ignorance.

No, the principle isn't the same. You can't put someone, who abuses their oath "to serve and protect" society to stay complicit for a murder being committed right in front of them, in the same breath as someone who seemed to be more concerned with keeping their job during a corporate merger than the on-set environment perpetuated by a director, and try to make it look comparable just because both examples happen to involve people acting in a horrible way. Abuse of power is not a concept that isn't open to interpretation and should somehow be applied everywhere in the same fashion. Pointing that out doesn't mean you're trivializing Fisher's position. I mentioned Whedon doesn't need to be like Polanski to be considered an abusive monster, was I somehow trivializing Carpenter's position towards Whedon for pointing that out?

"Unconscious bias" is an arrogant overly presumptuous phrase that suggests the person who uses it somehow presumes to know more about the other person's own "biases" than the latter does. It's appalling. :/

 

[Chesterfield]

No, the principle isn't the same. You can't put someone, who abuses their oath "to serve and protect" society to stay complicit for a murder being committed right in front of them, in the same breath as someone who seemed to be more concerned with keeping their job during a corporate merger than the on-set environment perpetuated by a director, and try to make it look comparable just because both examples happen to involve people acting in a horrible way. Abuse of power is not a concept that isn't open to interpretation and should somehow be applied everywhere in the same fashion. Pointing that out doesn't mean you're trivializing Fisher's position. I mentioned Whedon doesn't need to be like Polanski to be considered an abusive monster, was I somehow trivializing Carpenter's position towards Whedon for pointing that out?

"Unconscious bias" is an arrogant overly presumptuous phrase that suggests the person who uses it somehow presumes to know more about the other person's own "biases" than the latter does. It's appalling. :/

Well, I can't say I agree with anything here you just said.

 

[Da-Scribe]

“Unconscious bias isn’t real” ain’t the hill to die on.

 

[Chesterfield]

“Unconscious bias isn’t real” ain’t the hill to die on.

Yeah, lol I wasn't even going to get into it because it wouldn't have ended well for him. Funnily enough, it was only yesterday that the UK boss of KPMG lost his job for telling staff that 'Unconscious bias is complete crap'. What a moron.

 

[Greenlite]

Bruh didn't John's have a side convo with Fisher and threaten his career? Hamada,I have no clue what's up with him but Fisher does indeed have a gripe with Johns. But again, he may not be able to talk about it just yet. Again, it's crazy how when Fisher came out against Whedon people were killing him saying he is doing it for attention but now that more people have come forward, they STILL say he is doing it for attention. You're right though. SMG and Carpenter were nowhere near the set but they just confirmed that it all happened with them as well. But I wonder why SMG and Carpenter get a pass but Fisher doesn't despite having coworkers back up his story........

Yes Ray talked about his meeting with Johns, and also it seems like people have forgotten the fact that in response, Johns & Berg pumped out a news article about producing a Frosty the Snowman movie with Jason Momoa who then said WTF. I remember people were using “oh oh Jason was working with Johns, what do you have to say about that huh Ray Fisher?” to discredit him

That didn’t age well

I haven’t been following this extensively but did John’s & Berg ever come out and respond to Momoa’s WTF statement?

on top of that what was Berg’s response to Ray’s accusation? “We made him say Booya” (paraphrase). Classic misdirection from the main issue lol.

it doesn’t even require court hearings to get a feel of what’s happening here lol

and I agree that if my son takes underage girls home and forced them to do stuff next to my room for months, while I was in the room, and the girls’ friend comes to me screaming then tweet about it after my son moved out, the perfect way to resolve the situation is getting my journo buddy to write a fake story of me and the girls’ mentor making a school project together. At a time when I am branding myself and my business as a huge MeToo advocate

 

[djsunyc]

some white males feel threatened when they see a white male of power be held accountable for their actions. and its easy to see who those people are.

 

[KalvinEllis]

“Unconscious bias isn’t real” ain’t the hill to die on.

You're right, it ain't. But when someone tries to pretend to know better than you what goes on inside your head, they tend to overstep their boundaries and the argument goes beyond just "We happen to disagree about this". You know I have no issues with disagreements, we've had plenty of those before. But if someone would try to make assumptions about my character just because we disagree about something, that's a different story that does no favors to anyone.

 

[KalvinEllis]

Yet point these things out and some people on here act like you’re a terrible person.

You can’t even wait for details or facts before making your mind up without some people on here acting like your racist or something.

Eh people will always have their opinions. As long as there's no immediate rush to conflate anyone with the most horrible examples out there just for not taking everything at face value, it's fine. Either way I'd be lying if I said I'm still not intrigued to see how this whole thing plays out, even though the investigation ended months ago. Speaking of that, how is this thing supposed to "end" anyway. If Johns is out too, Hamada and Emmerich will still be there. What can potentially be done to them. Sarnoff publicly supported Hamada, so what can be done about him. I saw one of Ray's latest IG videos and he says that "at the very least" he wants to make sure that people who work with Hamada in the future know what kind of person he is, but outside of creating awareness, what else can realistically be done about him.

 

[TheFuture]

some white males feel threatened when they see a white male of power be held accountable for their actions. and its easy to see who those people are.

I am a white male sir and I welcome such accountability. Then again I am Irish so we have experienced what it's like to be kept down in our own away.

The derision Fisher got his way made me so uncomfortable. Like it's fine if someone said they were cynical of what he was saying, but some people really went to town on him. Not only abuse but people gleefully declaring he'd never work again. That is some ****ed up ****.

People like that will never admit they were wrong because to do so requires some serious self evaluation.

 

[KalvinEllis]

So that's what his tweet about people insulting folks working in the food industry was about. People telling him he would work in McDonalds after this situation. Sometimes I wish twitter was nuked off the face of the earth.

 

[Black Narcissus]

Easiest way to fix this is to have Hamada not be credited on Flashpoint and give Ray his job back. Tis' very clear Hamada ain't going anywhere, damn shame that Ray has to. I still feel like something will be worked out, I doubt Muchietti wants to start his endeavor into the cbm world with some baggage.

 

[chamber-music]

I am a white male sir and I welcome such accountability. Then again I am Irish so we have experienced what it's like to be kept down in our own away.

The derision Fisher got his way made me so uncomfortable. Like it's fine if someone said they were cynical of what he was saying, but some people really went to town on him. Not only abuse but people gleefully declaring he'd never work again. That is some ****ed up ****.

People like that will never admit they were wrong because to do so requires some serious self evaluation.

Yep

I've seen some people around various sites that were weirdly way too emotionally invested in this and took things with Fisher way too far. There seemed to be a delight in seeing Fisher suffer for daring to speak in a negative like about some people who made a film they liked.

Now that it seems there may be some truth in what Fisher was saying some of those people with fragile ego's can't seem to admit they might of been wrong.

I also saw some racism directed at Fisher on other sites. There are definitely some people who should probably have a long hard look at themselves in regards to their behavior and views.

 

[Greenlite]

Ray Fisher is gonna be one of the stars of ZSJL

Good luck Hamada when people make the connection that he was fired for saying stuff now backed by Buffy and Angel stars

 

[batdude]

I am a white male sir and I welcome such accountability. Then again I am Irish so we have experienced what it's like to be kept down in our own away.

The derision Fisher got his way made me so uncomfortable. Like it's fine if someone said they were cynical of what he was saying, but some people really went to town on him. Not only abuse but people gleefully declaring he'd never work again. That is some ****ed up ****.

People like that will never admit they were wrong because to do so requires some serious self evaluation.

Look, I'm a white male too. Here's the thing, Joss Whedon made a lot of stuff I like including the first two Avengers movies and Geoff Johns is one of my favorite comic book writers. It is Very uncomfortable talking about this. I do beleve in accountability though. However, Fisher's story has some very large holes in it. I don't believe that Fisher should never work again, but that this should probably be settled by a lawsuit, not by internet public opinion.

 

[Mysteryman]

Ray Fisher is gonna be one of the stars of ZSJL

Good luck Hamada when people make the connection that he was fired for saying stuff now backed by Buffy and Angel stars

What exactly does Hamada have to worry about? Whatever people here think that he did , the case against him isnt anywhere near as strong as the.one against Whedon.

 

[emielaen]

Yeah, I get that WB has to always be an enemy here, but wth lol

Hamada doesn’t have anything to do with the foul **** Whedon did on old shows. And they already let him go bc of the JL stuff. That’s why he doesn’t work with them anymore.

Hamada doesn’t seem to have much to worry about rn.

 

[Da-Scribe]

If the narrative shifts from “Ray quit by saying he didn’t want to work with Hamada.” to the reality that Hamada fired him for raising concerns about WB leadership...then yeah Hamada will have a lot to worry about.

From the outside looking in, it’s the much easier path forward for Ray. To focus in on obvious retaliation against him from WB. And yet he doesn’t seem interested in that and has kept his focus on how Hamada’s actions impacted the witnesses.

It flies in the face of the self-important drama queen thing so many folks here want to believe about him.

 

[emielaen]

But is there any proof that he was fired because of that though? I thought they offered him the job in Flash, he didn’t wanna work with Hamada for his own reasons, so they let him go. I don’t even know if Fisher claimed he got fired because of that.

Why he doesn’t want to work with Hamada now is because Hamada doesn’t want to quit working with Johns, I believe, but there’s nothing concrete to prove that Johns’ behavior was problematic. And Hamada had nothing to do with JL or it’s reshoots so he doesn’t seem involved there.

And Idk anything about Hamada’s actions impacting witnesses.

 

[Da-Scribe]

I mean Ray was in the movie and WB cut him for saying he didn’t want to work with Hamada. Ray’s words being taken as a resignation is insanely flimsy, especially considering he specifically said he wasn’t quitting prior to being cut. So WB certainly fired him.

That really plainly looks like retaliation on the part of WB and is illegal. But no one covering this whole thing seems interested in further exploring that angle so it hasn’t been the narrative.

As far as Ray’s issues with Hamada, he won’t work with him because he believes Hamada tried to block the investigation to protect Johns. To be clear, he has never suggested Hamada was there during reshoots. He has only said that Hamada was working with Johns at that time on New Line’s Shazam and that Hamada then impeded the workplace investigation that occurred after he took the reigns of DC Films.

 

[MbJ]

I feel like the public pronouncement that he would no longer work with Hamada in hindsight was a bit of a miscalculation. The entire narrative since then has been that he quit (even though he constantly tries to correct that on social media) and has allowed for a lot of "What did this idiot think was gonna happen when he said he wouldn't work on any movie Hamada was involved with? LOL" takes.

He was kind of in a no-win situation there, because had he not said that and was still allowed to appear in Flash, he'd no doubt have people calling him a sell-out and insisting this whole mess was just him trying to squeeze money out of the studio or garner publicity for himself.

 

[Aurakles]

I think he publicly announced he wouldn't work with Hamada because he genuinely doesn't want to work with Hamada.
I think the optics of it were secondary to the principle of it.

It was definitely not the best move in terms of his progression in the entertainment industry, but if that was his main concern he would have stayed quiet about Whedon too.

 

[emielaen]

I mean Ray was in the movie and WB cut him for saying he didn’t want to work with Hamada. Ray’s words being taken as a resignation is insanely flimsy, especially considering he specifically said he wasn’t quitting prior to being cut. So WB certainly fired him.

That really plainly looks like retaliation on the part of WB and is illegal. But no one covering this whole thing seems interested in further exploring that angle so it hasn’t been the narrative.

As far as Ray’s issues with Hamada, he won’t work with him because he believes Hamada tried to block the investigation to protect Johns. To be clear, he has never suggested Hamada was there during reshoots. He has only said that Hamada was working with Johns at that time on New Line’s Shazam and that Hamada then impeded the workplace investigation that occurred after he took the reigns of DC Films.

Yeah, I’m not disputing that he was let go.

But how would that be illegal exactly? Idk about their contracts, but if they offered the job and he didn’t want it under certain circumstances that weren’t gonna change then how is that not the end of that aspect? They didn’t wanna work together so they aren’t.

And I imagine we’re talking about another investigation here? Or did Fisher accuse him of trying to block the one we know about, and it still went through? Because the investigation we know about came and went and Johns seems to be good.

 

[MbJ]

I didn't mean in regards to his career prospects as Cyborg (we're way past that now) but the optics of the subsequent removal as retaliation for speaking out. Saying "I'm not gonna work with the DC Film President" basically gave them a nice smokescreen to cut his role and then frame it as "Well, he's the one who said he didn't want to work with us anymore!" Particularly when it's clear that they don't plan on removing Hamada from his position, so if Ray's comment was meant to be some sort of ultimatum, they called the bluff.

 

[Da-Scribe]

Yeah, I’m not disputing that he was let go.

But how would that be illegal exactly? Idk about their contracts, but if they offered the job and he didn’t want it under certain circumstances that weren’t gonna change then how is that not the end of that aspect? They didn’t wanna work together so they aren’t.

And I imagine we’re talking about another investigation here? Or did Fisher accuse him of trying to block the one we know about, and it still went through? Because the investigation we know about came and went and Johns seems to be good.

Look at it this way. Ray said he didn’t want to work with Hamada over what he felt were Hamada’s attempts to block the investigation and protect Johns. Ray was then let go. Many people look at that and think it was the only way things could play out.

So then ask yourself, why is it the person alleging workplace misconduct (Ray) by leadership (Hamada) was then punished by leadership (WB)? And why was the leader being accused (Hamada) rewarded with a contract extension all while no investigation into his alleged misconduct ever took place? Why has literally no one even humored the idea that The Flash film should’ve just been delayed until a new investigation was concluded?

I fully admit that that there could be things in the background we’re not privy too. But based on the available information, WB looks shady as all **** right now. And I’m genuinely floored that they aren’t being pressed harder by the media.

 

[Predator jp]

i still can't make up my mind. i need to know more.